Incline MENACE - sci-fi turn-based tactical RPG from Battle Brothers devs - coming to Early Access on Q3 2025

[Vincente]

Your "character" is your merc company, not some single peasant. And even then Gizelher Sniper Doggo often had more personality than all wrathfinder fag companions combined because his story is his actual deeds, not some lines in bio.

I actually felt sadness for my aged Swordsmaster, something that nu-cRPG couldnt make me feel.

 

[thesheeep]

So it would suddenly be an RPG if they changed the text boxes to refer to the current longest-surviving merc instead of "you"?

No. You are still not that merc (except for that one game mode in which you are).

The game as it is acknowledges a "you", sure, but this "you" does not actually exist in this game world, none of the rules are valid for it and it has no influence over what's happening in the core gameplay elements whatsoever.
It's no different than e.g. any RTS like AoE in that respect - sure, you play the game, but there is no "you" in the game.

Your "character" is your merc company, not some single peasant. And even then Gizelher Sniper Doggo often had more personality than all wrathfinder fag companions combined because his story is his actual deeds, not some lines in bio.

An abstract concept cannot be a character. Only an actual entity in the game world with a personality can be a character.
Which is why games like EUIV where you "are" a country, are not RPGs, either. And also why Crusader Kings is at least partly an RPG, as you ARE a tangible in-game character at all times.

No character in Battle Brothers truly matters, they are all cannon fodder (even if you can get attached to them, similar to XCOM which is also not an RPG).
The possiblity to "roleplay" something does not make a game an RPG - it cannot be a criteria as you can honestly do that in any game. I bet you some people found a way to roleplay Tetris.

 

[Reinhardt]

No character in Battle Brothers truly matters, they are all cannon fodder

All rpgs with resurrection spell or when everyone is just jumping back to life after combat are not rpgs either then because everyone is just cannon fodder.

 

[thesheeep]

No character in Battle Brothers truly matters, they are all cannon fodder

All rpgs with resurrection spell or when everyone is just jumping back to life after combat are not rpgs either then because everyone is just cannon fodder.

The fact that you bother to revive them at all and not just buy the next best replacement already proves they are not cannon fodder.
If they "jump back to life" after combat, they were never really dead or in any danger so that's not really related.

If you had a fixed party from the get-go such as in Icewind Dale AND you could revive people, then sure, maybe.
But that's just not the case for BB.

 

[Reinhardt]

The fact that you bother to revive them at all and not just buy the next best replacement already proves they are not cannon fodder.

Oh, trust me, nigger, if only i could revive my veteran bros.

 

[thesheeep]

The fact that you bother to revive them at all and not just buy the next best replacement already proves they are not cannon fodder.

Oh, trust me, nigger, if only i could revive my veteran bros.

Sure, but you seem very hang up on this revival thing. In the end, that would be more about resources in a game like BB.
Is it cheaper to get a new recruit or ressurect one? Are you so attached to a bro that you take the increased cost over getting a new one, etc.

It still wouldn't make you any of the bros - the game is very direct in telling you that those are NOT you, but instead they are yours.
While "you" isn't really in the game in any tangible way - that's the entire point I'm making.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

It is essential for an RPG that you are a tangible character in the game world that has actual influence on what's happening.
In Battle Brothers, I'd argue that you are not.

So games where you can change adventurer roster in inns and such (Phantasie-series, Knights of Legend and if my memory serves Darklands) aren't RPGs?

 

[thesheeep]

It is essential for an RPG that you are a tangible character in the game world that has actual influence on what's happening.
In Battle Brothers, I'd argue that you are not.

So games where you can change adventurer roster in inns and such (Phantasie-series, Knights of Legend and if my memory serves Darklands) aren't RPGs?

Where did you get that idea?

Haven't played the first of those, but I did play Realms Of Arkania, where you could also go to a tavern and change your entire roster if you so desire.
The difference is that in those games you are those characters (or one of them, depending on how you RP I guess), you aren't just changing soldiers in your army - the ability to change the characters doesn't change any of that.
What that does is simply changing the character(s) that you play as, same as changing character in PnP.
In BB, you never ARE any of those characters (again, except that one mode), since you are already "the commander" so you never change which character you play as. You just change the soldiers in your army.

 

[Zombra]

In BB, you never ARE any of those characters (again, except that one mode), since you are already "the commander" so you never change which character you play as. You just change the soldiers in your army.

That's what I just said. If you changed a couple lines of text so that one of your mercs is "the commander", i.e. "you", suddenly it would be an RPG by your lights.

 

[Abu Antar]

Battle Brothers is a tactical role playing game. Both objectively, and subjectively.

 

[thesheeep]

In BB, you never ARE any of those characters (again, except that one mode), since you are already "the commander" so you never change which character you play as. You just change the soldiers in your army.

That's what I just said. If you changed a couple lines of text so that one of your mercs is "the commander", i.e. "you", suddenly it would be an RPG by your lights.

That's not how I understood that, but nvm.

Yes, it would be.
The mechanical difference between RPGs and some other genres like simulations or tactics games is practically non-existent - at least for certain titles in those genres.
So another metric needs to be used - one that defines all RPGs and separates them from the rest. Which is playing a tangible character and not just something you need to make up yourself.
As I said, you can roleplay in pretty much every game, just using your mind - but that doesn't make every game an RPG.

 

[Reinhardt]

What is an rpg then?

 

[PorkaMorka]

BB is something very similar to an RPG, but you could find ways to classify it in another (better) genre.

It is essential for an RPG that you are a tangible character in the game world that has actual influence on what's happening.

This seems questionable though.

Aren't there a bunch of Japanese roleplaying games where you are not a tangible character in the game world?

Sometimes there is a generic self insert type character, but other times everyone is an NPC with their own personality and there is no "you".

You control them in battle, but they follow their own script in the plot and dialog. Sometimes the main plot character is pretty lame and annoying, you are kind of dragging him through the game, not thinking of him as your avatar.

 

[Reinhardt]

Sometimes the main plot character is pretty lame and annoying, you are kind of dragging him through the game, not thinking of him as your avatar.

Like in twitcher.

 

[Shaki]

Battle Brothers is tacticool, which pretty much means "RPG with less of the boring shit, and more of the good shit".

 

[Tyranicon]

Doesn't the codex already have an agreed upon answer to "what is a RPG?" It's something discussed ad nauseam here.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Doesn't the codex already have an agreed upon answer to "what is a RPG?" It's something discussed ad nauseam here.

The Codex's official policy is that, in Current Year, an RPG is any game that identifies as one.

Spoiler

But as we all know, an RPG is a game defined by certain combat, exploration, and character-related elements.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Doesn't the codex already have an agreed upon answer to "what is a RPG?" It's something discussed ad nauseam here.

Yeah that's the answer.

 

[mondblut]

Your "character" is your merc company, not some single peasant. And even then Gizelher Sniper Doggo often had more personality than all wrathfinder fag companions combined because his story is his actual deeds, not some lines in bio.

Hearts of Iron is an RPG, my "character" is Germany and each of my Panzer Divisions have tons of personality. Especially the SS ones.

 

[Harthwain]

Battle Brothers is tacticool, which pretty much means "RPG with less of the boring shit, and more of the good shit".

Not really? From their own description of the game:

The original X-Com, Warhammer: Shadow of the Horned Rat and Jagged Alliance.

Sure, they use RPG elements and mercenaries are essentially characters (like in Jagged Alliance), but claiming that everything with RPG elements is a full-blooded RPG is a very dangerous thing to say.

 

[DeepOcean]

Doesn't the codex already have an agreed upon answer to "what is a RPG?" It's something discussed ad nauseam here.

The Codex's official policy is that, in Current Year, an RPG is any game that identifies as one.

Spoiler

But as we all know, an RPG is a game defined by certain combat, exploration, and character-related elements.

We fully support genre fluid games.

 

[Monolith]

Battle Brothers is tacticool, which pretty much means "RPG with less of the boring shit, and more of the good shit".

Not really? From their own description of the game:

The original X-Com, Warhammer: Shadow of the Horned Rat and Jagged Alliance.

Sure, they use RPG elements and mercenaries are essentially characters (like in Jagged Alliance), but claiming that everything with RPG elements is a full-blooded RPG is a very dangerous thing to say.

But there is a definite difference between e.g. Jagged Alliance and Battle Brothers. JA has an overlying strategic layer that BB doesn't have. It's about advancing in territory, securing resources and deploying troops in a strategic manner across a map.

BB is about growing a group of mercs in a sandbox environment, grinding the heck out of offered quests and enemies. If you made BB into a blobber, it would be closer to Wizardzy than JA, and still work on an overall basis. The combat being actually good shouldn't be held against BB's RPG-ness. Now, the lack of a story arch, that's a different story. There's not many RPGs out there without a story, so I could live with that line of argument.

 

[ADULF HITLOR FAN KLUB]

Fördersumme 1.073.555,00 €

One million Euros in government funding? Holy cow.

Battle Brothers is a great game, so I have total faith in the developers.

 

[Berengar]

Battle Brothers is incredible! bring it on!

 

[Monolith]

Fördersumme 1.073.555,00 €

One million Euros in government funding? Holy cow.

Battle Brothers is a great game, so I have total faith in the developers.

I always thought the devs to be total masochists to come up with a game like Battle Brothers. This is confirming my theory - only absolute masochists, fully pain-tolerant can grind through that administrative process to finally get a grant approved.

I'd rather beg for that kind of money cent by cent on a street in Bangalore.

That being said, I fully believe they will finish any game they set their mind to.