Metal Gear Solid Δ (Snake Eater Remake) - PC/PS5/Xbox confirmed to use original voice files

[Ezekiel]

Metal Gear Solid 3's fixed camera angles are awesome.

Sorry but no
Besides the 2 major problems above, there's also these facts that Snake Eater's camera framing for most areas don't account for:
- enemies in 3 have much better senses (both view distance, fov and hearing - not to mention, more inteligent AI behavior)
- the enviroments are far larger, far more cluttered and their geography far more complex (meaning areas can't be as easily and quickly read like in 1 and 2, plus enemies are more difficult to spot)
- no soliton radar

The end result is that, sneaking around in many areas in the original version, veers to much into trial and error

*Skips to random part of playthrough.*



If he didn't use the classic camera, he would have turned the cam several times just going up those stairs. Instead, everything is shown. The classic cam is limiting, but can also be convenient. You're gonna say, "That's an indoor setting." Well, in most of the jungle areas you are going forward/north, where the cam is pointed. I would hate watching someone who only uses the new camera, even when there is nothing around or far to the sides, the new camera that is too close to fully appreciate the environments.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Come on man
A Let's Play is not the same thing as casual replay or a first-time playthrough

The classic cam ... can also be convenient.

Yes and I didn't deny that, hence why I said "for the most part"
There are plenty of times SE cam can be very useful, but for most of the game the framing doesn't help at all

 

[Ash]

Metal Gear Solid 3's fixed camera angles are awesome.

Sorry but no
Besides the 2 major problems above, there's also these facts that Snake Eater's camera framing for most areas don't account for:
- enemies in 3 have much better senses (both view distance, fov and hearing - not to mention, more inteligent AI behavior)
- the enviroments are far larger, far more cluttered and their geography far more complex (meaning areas can't be as easily and quickly read like in 1 and 2, plus enemies are more difficult to spot)
- no soliton radar

The end result is that, sneaking around in many areas in the original version, veers to much into trial and error

I will grant you that the enemies could be pretty damn hard to see at times, though a little patience can fix that (remain still and observe). But I also don't think this strictly has to be a negative. Who says enemies should stick out like a sore thumb? Generally that is a good rule to follow, a game design standard, but for a slow-paced stealth game I don't think it has to be. The game has a hard-on for tacticool gameplay, jungle warfare (where camo is a huge factor), realism-based systems and mechanics (not always). I think in this particular case, it's fine.

Also note that MGS3 original version did introduce a visibility aid in the absence of radar - right stick panned the camera in any direction you pushed, but with a strict limitation (you couldn't pan too far at all).

Remember, restrictions can be good. I like the limitations of old school MGS precisely for the fact it made for relatively hardcore, unique gameplay.

So I watched some footage. Looks like it changes it to standard behind the character third person. While that is generally better for gameplay, it for sure dumbs it down (the difficulty) and loses some cinematic flair and uniqueness. Like I said, the iso camera helped make the gameplay unique and different from the many other games out there. Still, I am not completely opposed, and I'd have to play it to truly see what they've done. As cool as the game is, probably will never touch it again. Maybe. It has a lot of style and substance, but also simultaneously a lot of fluff and self-jerking.

 

[Ezekiel]

You also have the anti-personnel sensor and the sonar in MGS3, not to mention obviously first-person view. Good point about the intentional challenge. When the controller gets here, I think I'm gonna play it how I played it before Subsistence: "fixed" cam only.

 

[Ash]

To be fair, in tight, small indoor areas, iso is arguably more dumbed down (can see around what would be multiple corners and obstacles over a wide area). In outdoor areas (majority of the game), free cam is definitely easier, being able to observe everything up ahead and around that isn't obscured by elevation differences.

If I were to replay the game, it would likely be with iso. Game is super unique and it just worked for the most part, same as MGS1 and 2. freecam would be decline in those too. I get the desire and justification for it in 3 though, given the huge open environments, and am definitely fine with people playing it that way. It's not the true MGS experience for sure, and surely a little easier, but it's fine. Also, it does add some form of difficulty in reducing visibility of what's behind you (enemies can be flanky), and demanding you always be adjusting the camera. It's...fine. No longer truly MGS never knowing where the fuck the enemies are truly at and having to be super observant, but fine.

 

[Ezekiel]

Find it weird that you people call the cam isometric. It often isn't.

 

[Ash]

True. It's very dynamic, on occasion switching to birds eye or even trailing behind, but isometric is the dominant style.

 

[Ezekiel]

If I were to replay the game, it would likely be with iso. Game is super unique and it just worked for the most part, same as MGS1 and 2. freecam would be decline in those too. I get the desire and justification for it in 3 though, given the huge open environments, and am definitely fine with people playing it that way. It's not the true MGS experience for sure, and surely a little easier, but it's fine.

If you do ever replay it and choose the HD remaster or Subsistence for the PS2, remember to go into Settings and change "Camera mode" from "3rd person view" to "Normal." Otherwise, it will default to the rotational cam every time you load your save file and you'll have to click out with R3. Making it an option in Subsistence was fine, but Kojima Productions undermined their game design and gave into the complainers when they shouldn't have by making it the default. I remember Hideo Kojima saying that his team had to pressure him to put in the rotational cam and he had to force himself to face his "motion sickness."

 

[Ezekiel]

I can't remember what the heck R3 was used for in the original version of MGS3. Searching online pulls results for the Subsistence controls. No longer have my PS2 copy with the fat manual. Just Subsistence and the HD collection for PS3. Also regret selling The Twin Snakes when I had little money.

 

[Ash]

I recall it was a contextual action in CQC holds. Yes, it was interrogate. But outside of that context, I don't remember either. Possibly steady breathing when aiming with sniper also.

Given that right stick was used for camera panning, I wouldn't expect it to be anything too important, if anything at all, as it potentially conflicts with that in a major way, depending on how much deadzone is set to ignore the pan or not.

 

[Ezekiel]

Spoiler

It used to be six.

I recall it was a contextual action in CQC holds. Yes, it was interrogate. But outside of that context, I don't remember either. Possibly steady breathing when aiming with sniper also.

That was and still is L3.

Given that right stick was used for camera panning, I wouldn't expect it to be anything too important, if anything at all, as it potentially conflicts with that in a major way, depending on how much deadzone is set to ignore the pan or not.

Yeah, maybe nothing was assigned to it.

 

[Ezekiel]

Pressure sensitivity works now using the RetroFighter Defender's PS2 wireless dongle and the YouTuber's recommended program and adapter. So the problem was definitely the DualShock 2 not being supported. Excited to play these games again. I'm gonna try to decrypt my PS3 save so that I can start MGS3 on Extreme instead of Hard. Will play MGS2 on only Hard. I remember that game being more difficult, and my last playthrough was eleven years ago.

Edit: Eh, too many technical issues with PS3 Bruteforce Save Data tool. Will just start over. I don't know why RPCS3 can't just play the encrypted PS3 saves natively, why the devs didn't think to add that in.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Guys this is the simplest way I can put this
Snake Eaters camera feels like it was designed by someone that thought MGS3 would play like MGS2 - as if the gameplay and level design team handed no notes to guys that framed the camera
It simply does not account how much denser and more complex 3's enviroments are

Who says enemies should stick out like a sore thumb?

it for sure dumbs it down (the difficulty)

Getting insta-spotted because the camera is unable to properly frame what's directly in front of Snake isn't what I would call "good design" for a stealth game

right stick panned the camera in any direction you pushed

Not good enough for most cases

in tight, small indoor areas, iso is arguably more dumbed down (can see around what would be multiple corners and obstacles over a wide area)

Ash your problem as game designer/critic is that you are completely unflexible in your belief that "X design choice is always incline, while Y design choice is always decline"
The truth is the quality of any design choice and gameplay mechanic depends entirely on the context it's being used

You also have the anti-personnel sensor and the sonar in MGS3

Which are not available on harder difficulties (yet the fucking tranq gun is) and take an active item slot (plus backpack weight)

not to mention obviously first-person view

Which in the worst cases of SE camera devolved into constantly switching between FPV, dragging the experience to a crawl

 

[911 Jumper]

I hate the way MGS3 looks. To go from the futuristic clean surfaces and muted colour palettes of MGS2 to the lentil-coloured jungle environments in MGS3 felt like such a step back.

I should also add that I disliked Kojima's decision to shift the series towards Big Boss.

 

[Häyhä]

What I don't get is, are they going to keep the exact same gameplay, maps etc. but put them out in modern cool-as-shit-looking graphics. How is that going to work, it's a PS2 game we're talking about, made to those limitations?

 

[Ezekiel]

I should also add that I disliked Kojima's decision to shift the series towards Big Boss.

It was fine with just MGS3. We didn't need four games, plus his lame appearance in MGS4. I would have followed MGS4 with another sequel featuring a new protagonist and villains. We're supposed to believe the world will just stay happily ever after, that Foxhound or whoever will never have more walking battle tanks to destroy? A sequel would have freed the game from all the baggage of being in the past and having to work around established events, which Kojima didn't give a shit about. It was so irritating that all this advanced technology (like the AI that emulated the The Boss and the Metal Gears that were even more futuristic than REX) existed decades before the first game and that Otacon's father worked with Big Boss.

 

[911 Jumper]

I should also add that I disliked Kojima's decision to shift the series towards Big Boss.

It was fine with just MGS3. We didn't need four games, plus his lame appearance in MGS4. I would have followed MGS4 with another sequel featuring a new protagonist and villains. We're supposed to believe the world will just stay happily ever after, that Foxhound or whoever will never have more walking battle tanks to destroy? A sequel would have freed the game from all the baggage of being in the past and having to work around established events, which Kojima didn't give a shit about. It was so irritating that all this advanced technology (like the AI that emulated the The Boss and the Metal Gears that were even more futuristic than REX) existed decades before the first game and that Otacon's father worked with Big Boss.

I agree. I've said elsewhere I think it should have ended after MGS2, but I can accept MGS3. MGS4 just went into absurd melodramatic soap opera territory. But it was one of PS3's biggest exclusives and it was coming from Kojima, so all the goofy stuff was reframed as “Kojima's genius”.
Would have been better if things were left ambiguous, if there was some mystery, it would have complimented the themes. But Kojima couldn't do it.

 

[Häyhä]

Wait a minute... is this by any chance SDG!?

 

[Ezekiel]

I should also add that I disliked Kojima's decision to shift the series towards Big Boss.

It was fine with just MGS3. We didn't need four games, plus his lame appearance in MGS4. I would have followed MGS4 with another sequel featuring a new protagonist and villains. We're supposed to believe the world will just stay happily ever after, that Foxhound or whoever will never have more walking battle tanks to destroy? A sequel would have freed the game from all the baggage of being in the past and having to work around established events, which Kojima didn't give a shit about. It was so irritating that all this advanced technology (like the AI that emulated the The Boss and the Metal Gears that were even more futuristic than REX) existed decades before the first game and that Otacon's father worked with Big Boss.

I agree. I've said elsewhere I think it should have ended after MGS2, but I can accept MGS3. MGS4 just went into absurd melodramatic soap opera territory. But it was one of PS3's biggest exclusives and it was coming from Kojima, so all the goofy stuff was reframed as “Kojima's genius”.
Would have been better if things were left ambiguous, if there was some mystery, it would have complimented the themes. But Kojima couldn't do it.

Yeah, I remember all this talk back then about us needing MGS4 because these unanswered questions had to be answered. Did we really need to know how Vamp got his powers? Nanomachines? I say no. Just imagine he's a vampire or similar creature or let him rest in peace at the bottom of the water. Kojima probably would have made a new IP after MGS3 if Konami had let him, but him not being given that much freedom is no excuse for how he handled it. The fanservice in that game was painful. The REX versus RAY fight that everybody praised was actually pretty cheesy. Even turned Raiden into another Gray Fox to please the haters, which made him far blander.

 

[911 Jumper]

Yeah, I remember all this talk back then about us needing MGS4 because these unanswered questions had to be answered. Did we really need to know how Vamp got his powers? Nanomachines? I say no. Just imagine he's a vampire or similar creature or let him rest in peace at the bottom of the water. Kojima probably would have made a new IP after MGS3 if Konami had let him, but him not being given that much freedom is no excuse for how he handled it. The fanservice in that game was painful. The REX versus RAY fight that everybody praised was actually pretty cheesy. Even turned Raiden into another Gray Fox to please the haters, which made him far blander.

MGS4 and the OTT action cutscenes in The Twin Snakes, which were a result of Kojima telling film director Ryuhei Kitamura to redo the scenes in Kitamura's distinctive “action style”, were enough to convince me that Kojima isn't as skilled as this industry makes him out to be.
A good creator knows when to call it a day. MGS4 shows that Kojima is prepared to cave in to fan pressure and, I'm sure, the prospect of making more money.

The REX vs RAY fight. Raiden's rebirth as the new Gray Fox. The way he [Raiden] “stopped” the Outer Haven battleship. Johnny and Meryl's mid-battle marriage proposal – there were a number of goofy scenes in MGS4 that just undermined Kojima's credibility as a “genius” director. But again a lot of people were and still are prepared to overlook it all because it's “Kojima”.

Kojima can't seem to leave anything ambiguous and open to interpretation. It all has to be explained, often with some kind of techno babble. This is something that also exists in Death Stranding – at least based on what I've seen and read of that game.

 

[Häyhä]

 

[Ash]

Ash your problem as game designer/critic is that you are completely unflexible in your belief that "X design choice is always incline, while Y design choice is always decline"
The truth is the quality of any design choice and gameplay mechanic depends entirely on the context it's being used

Nope. Not sure where you get that from, please don't put words into my mouth. Recall I even defended fricken QTEs but in the very specific context of RE4 only. I even said I am open to the subsistence cam, and that it generally makes for better gameplay in most contexts. Generally. It just so happens though that here, the entire game was designed around the iso cam. It worked just fine so I see no need to change it. You have multiple tools to assist in enemy detection, camera panning, and observing the environment in first person. It also makes the stealth & combat more difficult at times which I like, cinematic, and different to all the other stealth game series out there. I don't think changing the camera is necessarily a bad choice either, play it that way if you want, but given the entire game was built around iso and in my experience it was completely fine, I will be sticking with that if I ever replay.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Not sure where you get that from

My experience arguing with you

Recall I even defended fricken QTEs but in the very specific context of RE4 only.

I don't remember witnessing that

the entire game was designed around the iso cam.

No the game was designed with the iso cam
Not around it

Again to that point I made - it's like whoever was in charge of the camera thought the game was just MGS2 but in the jungle - in open areas (and even some interior space) there's absolute no accounting for the improved enemy perception, for how larger and more complex areas are, even for the simple fact of player current direction

It worked just fine

If the player can get spotted by enemies outside the camera frame, then it's not working fine

Look I don't mind dynamic camera in a action game, nor do I think free camera is the superior choice all the time - in fact in some games they are a sub-par approach and even a missed oportunity for some very aesthetically pleasing scenes
But here, for them to truly be the ideal approach, the game would have to suffer many changes to the camera's fov and positioning, plus enemy placement and even possibly the level design

 

[Ezekiel]

The gamma seems too high in Bluepoint's remaster. I remember the cave being way darker on PS2. Lowering my TV brightness to minimum doesn't fix it. It's actually quite annoying, because getting through without light initially added to the sense of adventure.

 

[Ezekiel]

I vaguely remember this on PS3 as well. Maybe they brightened up just the cave, to make the game easier.