Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

[Jick Magger]

Spoiler

I think one of the worst parts is that despite being a genuine triple agent/double crosser/deceiver through most of the games, in MGSV he's relegated to using hypnotherapy to be good at it. Almost as if he was too shit to do it convincingly.

Spoiler

Not to mention the fact that the whole action is kind of pointless, seeing at some unclear point during or before the start of the game he tells Miller the truth, before he begins his hypnotherapy, which doesn't seem like a good idea seeing as Miller at the best of times intensely dislikes Ocelot and might blow the whistle on him if he decides enough is enough with him. What's the downside of Ocelot knowing that Venom's an imposter anyway? Seeing as he knows it's in the benefit of Big Boss that he keep active. This isn't even going in to the fact that there's no benefit in letting Miller know he's an imposter either, and is in fact an extremely bad choice in the long run, seeing as him learning this leads to him rejecting Big Boss and deciding to help Solid Snake in the future, which leads to both of the Big Bosses getting killed and their plan to create a nation for soldiers blowing up spectacularly.

 

[Luka-boy]

Damn it, thinking about it even the actual soldiers you recruit were more interesting in Peace Walker. They had 2D portraits pretty in line with the general Metal Gear art style, each one had a personal quote from a pool of many dozens that ranged from game tips to humorous, had various different combat stats in case you wanted to play as them and they could have up to four skills. Now we get 3D portraits, a few conversations between soldiers you sometimes hear when visiting Mother Base, a single combat stat and they can have only one skill.

I'll take some quick screencaps from my Peace Walker save.

Spoiler

 

[Adon]

Spoiler

Not to mention the fact that the whole action is kind of pointless, seeing at some unclear point during or before the start of the game he tells Miller the truth, before he begins his hypnotherapy, which doesn't seem like a good idea seeing as Miller at the best of times intensely dislikes Ocelot and might blow the whistle on him if he decides enough is enough with him. What's the downside of Ocelot knowing that Venom's an imposter anyway? Seeing as he knows it's in the benefit of Big Boss that he keep active. This isn't even going in to the fact that there's no benefit in letting Miller know he's an imposter either, and is in fact an extremely bad choice in the long run, seeing as him learning this leads to him rejecting Big Boss and deciding to help Solid Snake in the future, which leads to both of the Big Bosses getting killed and their plan to create a nation for soldiers blowing up spectacularly.

Spoiler

Didn't Ocelot tell him at the end of the game? I just assumed that given the conversation was at the end credits. But yes, I agree with what you're saying. I mean, he was going to remember it eventually, I'm not sure what was the point of Ocelot not knowing. And if he did tell Miller at the end, it makes even less sense at that point because he knows how angsty that dude is throughout the game. It's almost comical how that ruins their plans with the body-double that whey went through so much trouble for.

Damn it, thinking about it even the actual soldiers you recruit were more interesting in Peace Walker. They had 2D portraits pretty in line with the general Metal Gear art style, each one had a personal quote from a pool of many dozens that ranged from game tips to humorous, had various different combat stats in case you wanted to play as them and they could have up to four skills. Now we get 3D portraits, a few conversations between soldiers you sometimes hear when visiting Mother Base, a single combat stat and they can have only one skill.

I'll take some quick screencaps from my Peace Walker save.

Spoiler

Yeah, the only thing that sucked was that if you played these characters they wore a balaclava, but maybe that's just me being spoiled from Portable Ops and some of the neat shit they had. PW has like the opposite problem of MGSV in that the gameplay isn't the greatest, but everything around base building was built much better. If you exclude the countless vehicle boss fights, there were some pretty enjoyable side-ops, and it helps you can play them in co-op with a bud.

Maybe it helped that Kojima made this into a portable game so it was structered around short play sessions.

 

[Jick Magger]

V story would be better served if it was Peace Walker from the Russian side instead ... dont you find it amusing that in Peace Walker Huey pretty much used Granin blueprints and then the Soviets that build Shagohod in the first place never managed to create anything besides that, sure Snake Eater pretty much set them back to the start but still, its not as if Granin research just vanished until it was found so Huey could copy them.

They actually made a point of that in MGS3. Can't remember what was specifically said, but the Major does emphasize destroying the whole lab as opposed to just destroying the Shagohod, as if the research material does survive then Volgin could just use the tens of billions of dollars he has to just build another one. As for the rest of the research material, Sokolov burns the stuff he has on him when Snake tries to extract him the first time around, then his test lab any anyone else who would've known the specifics about the project was blown up when Sokolov's lab was destroyed by Volgin and his Davy Crockett, and anything left on Grozny Grad that wasn't destroyed when the hangar holding the Shagohod and all its test data would've been destroyed when the Boss blew it up with her Davy Crockett.

That was actually the first question that popped in my head at the end of the first chapter of TPP, where Miller insists that they can't let the world know that Sahelanthropus exists: can't the Soviets just build another one? I mean sure, we nicked Huey away from them, so he can't be relied on anymore, but by the end he's still alive and perfectly capable of just getting in contact with another major power and building it for them instead, and as far as I know the Soviets or what's left of XOF still have all the research data.

 

[bonescraper]

∞/10

 

[Caim]

I played a bit of MGS3 over the weekend and got to the point where you first meet Ocelot.

Holy Christ, now I know what people are talking about when they say his character in MGS5 makes no sense. In MGS3, he seemed like the sort of character that might be played by a young Dolph Lundgren. But in MGS5, he's suddenly become Sam Elliott.

Early on in MGS V he berates a soldier for using a technique he's only read about regaring keeping a round in the chamber while reloading and how the engravings on his gun make no sense.

This is pretty much the exact same spiel Snake gave Ocelot back in MGS3. It was a rather establishing moment for the both of them: Snake as a competent badass and Ocelot with his flair for showmanship. Except... well, what was the point of that scene in MGS V? Just an empty shoutout to MGS V? Because referential humor only works when you actually DO something with it. When hearing it in MGS V, Snake just stands there and listens. He doesn't do anything, doesn't respond or even takes a jab at Ocelot to lighten the whole situation.

Also, that scene where Snake breaks up a fight between two soldiers... the fuck was up with that? Dude's fucking crazy.

 

[Jick Magger]

Spoiler

Didn't Ocelot tell him at the end of the game? I just assumed that given the conversation was at the end credits. But yes, I agree with what you're saying. I mean, he was going to remember it eventually, I'm not sure what was the point of Ocelot not knowing. And if he did tell Miller at the end, it makes even less sense at that point because he knows how angsty that dude is throughout the game. It's almost comical how that ruins their plans with the body-double that whey went through so much trouble for.

Spoiler

Either way it doesn't make any sense. Either Ocelot told Miller before the start of the game, in which case he's relying on the emotionally unstable, revenge fuelled Miller who now hates Big Boss' guts to play ball with him. Or he's telling him after the end, in which case it implies that Ocelot's hypnotherapy didn't work, or he didn't bother going through with it, and he's just telling Miller the truth for no reason because he trusts the emotionally unstable cripple with a chip on his shoulder to just accept the fact that his best friend abandoned him forever, and that everything he just did with Venom was a farce. I just go with the former because it's slightly less pants-on-head retarded than the latter.

 

[Caim]

They actually made a point of that in MGS3. Can't remember what was specifically said, but the Major does emphasize destroying the whole lab as opposed to just destroying the Shagohod, as if the research material does survive then Volgin could just use the tens of billions of dollars he has to just build another one. As for the rest of the research material, Sokolov burns the stuff he has on him when Snake tries to extract him the first time around, then his test lab any anyone else who would've known the specifics about the project was blown up when Sokolov's lab was destroyed by Volgin and his Davy Crockett, and anything left on Grozny Grad that wasn't destroyed when the hangar holding the Shagohod and all its test data would've been destroyed when the Boss blew it up with her Davy Crockett.

IIRC the end of MGS3 mentioned that Ocelot gave the plans for the original Metal Gear to the CIA.

 

[sexbad?]

Does the parasite feeding off language plotline eventually lead to Ocelot and Kaz shutting the fuck up?

 

[Jick Magger]

IIRC the end of MGS3 mentioned that Ocelot gave the plans for the original Metal Gear to the CIA.

Oh yeah, the Metal Gear stuff is saved (and the specific reason given for it not being made is because it's unfeasible with 1960's technology, foreshadowing how it'd only catch on thirty years later), but everything Shagohod related is up in smoke.

 

[Drakron]

They actually made a point of that in MGS3. Can't remember what was specifically said, but the Major does emphasize destroying the whole lab as opposed to just destroying the Shagohod, as if the research material does survive then Volgin could just use the tens of billions of dollars he has to just build another one. As for the rest of the research material, Sokolov burns the stuff he has on him when Snake tries to extract him the first time around, then his test lab any anyone else who would've known the specifics about the project was blown up when Sokolov's lab was destroyed by Volgin and his Davy Crockett, and anything left on Grozny Grad that wasn't destroyed when the hangar holding the Shagohod and all its test data would've been destroyed when the Boss blew it up with her Davy Crockett.

That was actually the first question that popped in my head at the end of the first chapter of TPP, where Miller insists that they can't let the world know that Sahelanthropus exists: can't the Soviets just build another one? I mean sure, we nicked Huey away from them, so he can't be relied on anymore, but by the end he's still alive and perfectly capable of just getting in contact with another major power and building it for them instead, and as far as I know the Soviets or what's left of XOF still have all the research data.

Peace Walker made a point of saying Huey just used Granin blueprints, of course he died in Snake Eater so they survived so he could get his hands on them. Plus its not as if they would not notice the Peace Walker and ZEKE, Zadornov was KGB.

Shagohod isnt the problem, that wasnt a bipedal walking tank or even from Granin but from Sokolov, it died along with its creator but then again, who is Man on Fire? Do I have to point out the inconsistencies because they recovered Volgin's body yet THE FUCKING ARMORED TANK he was on was a total lost ... seriously ... why he is even in the game?

Its been 9 years since ZEKE and Peace Walker and Sahelanthropus was developed in Russia for reasons so its not as of they could not do it because, THEY DID and they did it not based off Sokolov's Shapohod (Battle Gear is closer to it) but rather Granin design that lead to Peace Walker and ZEKE, Sahelanthropus is the 3rd of Granin design.

And yes, its a good question of why not ... even if Skull Face was working alone its still a question of why the project just vanishes until TX-55 and Metal Gear D about a decade later, also what happens to Sahelanthropus? Its not as if Huey forgot how he build the damn thing and he cannot die for a few years anyway.

If Sahelanthropus was a weapon created to wipe out insurgents and guerrillas as well possibly having short and medium range nuclar delivery capabilities you can see how it would upset the balance of power, it would make the Soviets winning a tech race that would give then control of countries in all over the world, Soviet backed countries would wipe US sponsored movements and also make soldiers like Big Boss IRRELEVANT in the battlefield, its not as much a threat of nuclear war but rather, the end of what Big Boss interpreted as The Boss Legacy.

Simply the story is a fucking mess that doesnt even use the twist to have a constant theme by attempting to mirror what happened with Peace Walker was going to happen again, only way to stop it was winning the race ... that is TX-55, the same deterrence they had with ZEKE.

 

[KK1001]

Fuck the story.

The game itself has zero replayability and the end-game consists of literal grinding to unlock weapons that make an already easy game easier.

Not even the option to play every mission in some combination of total stealth/subsistence/extreme? Fuck you.

 

[Bigg Boss]

Yeah, the lack of endgame challenges is a bitch. No Big Boss Hard/Extreme playthrough? Guess that is why I'm going back to play the old ones.

 

[Drakron]

Actually beating the game unlocks Hard mode.

 

[Bigg Boss]

Actually beating the game unlocks Hard mode.

Define beating? Seeing the ending to Chapter 2 or completing the rest of the repeat missions/side ops? Do you start a new game or what, or does it just alter the missions you already have? That gives me something to work toward. I think I have three of those left.

*runs off to play more*

 

[J_C]

I have no idea what key is in the keyboard but [Help] mode explaining that and more

I tried to find the help key, but to no avail.

 

[J_C]

Actually beating the game unlocks Hard mode.

I hate this. Why don't you give us the hard mode from the beginning? The game is piss easy, if you don't care about the score and you use a mix of stealth and action gameplay. I want Snake to die if he is hit from a rifle 2 times. But now I just ran away and regenerate health. Could it be possible to mod the game to give the enemy more damage, or stop regenerating health?

That said, the gameplay is just soooo good in this game, in terms of mechanics and level design. I don't even care about the story at this point (although I'm just at the first part of the game). Last time I was travelling from one place to another, and a sandstorm hit me. I didn't care, I just followed the road, when suddenly 2 russian patrol appeared from the storm 5 meters in front of me.

 

[Somberlain]

Actually beating the game unlocks Hard mode.

I guess that's enough of a good reason to play the game again, then.

Spoiler

I had just gotten the Sniper Wolf outfit and then Quiet left forever

 

[Talby]

Lies, there isn't a hard mode.

 

[Declinator]

So the obvious Id/Super ego dynamic between Ocelot and Miller means nothing, all the Moby dick references are just there to make the game look cool?

I hardly think it's particularly obvious that Ocelot and Miller are supposed to represent some Freudian concepts as they could represent any number of other things too or indeed they might not be representing anything but themselves as characters. As far as I'm concerned that's just your mostly baseless interpretation and pointless metawankery either way.

Moby Dick references just to make the game look cool? Sounds right up Kojima's alley. Even if this is not the case, the Moby Dick references seem to have far more to do with Snake himself than Miller and are thus largely irrevelant to the matter at hand.

Or are we actually not supposed to care about the characters and focus on the broken, incohesive mess that is the main plot, despite the game giving waay more attention to the characters in the few cutscenes that it has than the plot?

I said nothing even remotely like that. Not trying to derive some sort of moral lesson from Miller's actions and/or the consequences of Miller's actions has absolutely nothing to do with caring about the characters.

 

[bonescraper]

I tried to find the help key, but to no avail.

It's fucking H, duh. One of the ingame tutorials explains it, but you guys are too smart for tutorials, eh?

 

[J_C]

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

How to unlock the hard mode on TPP: Play the missions like as all of them were subsistance ones.

Done.

 

[KK1001]

How to unlock the hard mode on TPP: Play the missions like as all of them were subsistance ones.

Done.

"Bro, just play Doom using only the chainsaw, man! Who needs difficulty levels when you can handicap yourself to make the game harder?"

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

"Bro, just play Doom using only the chainsaw, man! Who needs difficulty levels when you can handicap yourself to make the game harder?"

The pistol. The most basic weapon in Doom is the pistol. And nobody is saying that about the difficulty levels.

Doom is a First person shooter game integrated by intricate levels which the player must go through killing enemies and unlocking doors while recolects weapons to fight against thougher and numerous enemies with an escalating difficulty in each difficulty and in each campaign. MGSV is a infiltration game based on missions which can be completed by the player in numerous ways excepeting 4 missions which are action forced. The player is allowed to use the gear and the configurations that he wants to play the game. Starting a mission without gear in MGSV is the same gameplay style that the original games, where you must find a take the weapons and the gear during the infiltration. A gameplay style that forces the player to be more silent, and that stealth gameplay can be rewarded later by the classic Foxhound rank. In Doom playing only with the chainsaw is a stupid way to make more challenging a game with actual difficulties levels. In MGSV starting a mission without gear and taking it in the battlefield is the same experience that the rest of MG games provide, and is only one of many posibilites that the game provides in terms of gameplay. And as you can see in the subsistance missions, is an actual difficulty.