Metroid Appreciation Thread

[The Dutch Ghost]

I didn't explain myself adequately, sorry.

What I wanted to say is that Retro Studios is banned from driving the plot of the series so their games have very little plot when compared to the recent "main" games, making them much more enjoyable and gameplay focused. Corruption was the exception and even then cutscenes happened very sparsely after the first 2 hours where they tried to copy Halo.

IMO, all Prime trilogy games are better than Dread.

Ah I see.
I think you are onto something there, because Retro could not 'advance' the Metroid storyline (this thread brings up the good point if it was done well after Super Metroid), their Metroid games focus on their own corner of the Metroid verse without having to tie it into Metroid 2, Super Metroid, etc. Only the original metroid/Metroid Zero Mission is the canon/background lore they have to adhere to. One may ask if the events in these games are relevant then for the Metroid series then but as Metroid has started losing me somewhat with Metroid Other M, Metroid Samus Returns (the retcons in the plot though I was not a big fan of the gameplay either), and Metroid Dread I would not say I have such a problem with Sakamoto ignoring the Prime series as Retro's people can in general ignore all the later entries done by him. Even Zero Mission (despite that I really like that game) can be put in question (it was released after Prime) of being canon as the continuation is based on the original Metroid's minimalistic plot.
BTW, having said that, I would love to see Retro tackle an original Metroid remake as a Prime game that ties into the first Metroid Prime/Remastered.
One Gamefaqs forums some people have asked of Prime 4 would take place after Metroid Dread. I both doubt it but I also do not see it as necessary as I really do not want to see more 'Evil Chozo' and X parasites.

I also prefer the Prime games over Dread. For one those damn shinespark puzzles that can piss me off sometimes. The worlds in those games also feel more part of the game and gameplay unlike Dread where it is often just a scenery change with exception of hot, cold, and water environments.

Dread's plot is explained in a literally 5 minutes-long exposition from a character that is killed shortly afterwards, then 10 minutes more tops right at the end. It's making Samus quite OP, but that would be solved by having her go somewhere else and fight a new enemy. Or hell, have someone else other than Samus be playable, if only briefly (and not make Samus retarded like Federation Command did).

Yeah, the whole plot reveal could also have been done better but that is something we are right now discussing about the series in general. The Prime games probably also made the same mistake and yet I feel more forgiving towards them. Perhaps because I found their stories more enjoyable than that of Dread.
And Dread indeed leaves the series with the problem that Samus is now probably one of the most powerful characters in the universe. Her Metroid form will probably be downplayed in the future, that she can not use in general because she would turn full Metroid or something and become as dangerous as the original Metroids and the X parasites. Of course that is until near the end of the game when her Metroid form is the only way to defeat the final boss.
The plot definitely becomes more like a comic book with Samus having to fight more and more powerful foes as her old ones are either gone or can no longer 'touch' her any more. I forgot what it is called but I have never been a fan of this type of storytelling as writers go through all kinds of twists and retcons to make up even more powerful antagonists who are revealed to be the architects of events in the previous games or something.
Fusion for all its flaws ended the main 2D series quite well where as Dread opens new plot directions I am not sure the franchise should go.

Then they shouldn't have called her one in the first place.

And she doesn't have to be one with a mercenary mentality. The principled gun for hire has a well established history in fiction, especially in Westerns, we just don't need to know why she is one. The main focus is what we see in the Metroid games IS Samus. She is so focused on what she does that she doesn't have a privite life and doesn't need a past to explore, she lives to go into the dark corners of planets tucked away in the galaxy alone and surrounded by threats.

Metroid 2 continued what Metroid 1 established that way as she got a new contract to wipe out the Metroids once and for all. In a way, things went wrong in Super Metroid by returning to Zebes, but it was a rehash that didn't overstay its welcome like the rest.

Nintendo's writers probably did it because it sounded cool without actually realizing what it details.

Yeah, she could be like the lone gunslinger who comes to town to bring justice. Yes, she needs to get paid but that is for expenses, it does not drive her.

Super Metroid was great for the time what elements it introduced in the series that would become standard in it, but that is not what you have a problem with. I don't know what to say about Super Metroid feeling a rehash because it returns to Zebes. New SNES entries in existing series that felt like a rehash of previous games didn't feel uncommon to me at the time. A lot of 'Super' entries felt like 16 bit versions of old games that looked nicer and had more content but did not really reinvent the series that much.

 

[Beastro]

The plot definitely becomes more like a comic book with Samus having to fight more and more powerful foes as her old ones are either gone or can no longer 'touch' her any more

We already know what they'll do, what they've always done since SM: https://metroid.fandom.com/wiki/Ridley_(Disambiguation)

They had to shoehorn him even into Metroid II, where he has no place being there, because of course you gotta fight Ridley in a Metroid game.

. I don't know what to say about Super Metroid feeling a rehash because it returns to Zebes. New SNES entries in existing series that felt like a rehash of previous games didn't feel uncommon to me at the time. A lot of 'Super' entries felt like 16 bit versions of old games that looked nicer and had more content.

And it became a major issue with them.

Mario was able to transcend it by being almost archetypal and mythological while Zelda originally could be seen as a form of mythological eternal reoccurance of the same story told in different ways. With the latter, though they then ruined it by trying to make a timeline of all the Zelda games when that just creates an insane mess of the series.

Anyway, Metroid is too grounded to benefit from that. It has higher expectations. SM wasn't so bad with the return to Zebes, but in retrospect, it laid the pattern of rehashing that would come.

It's fault wasn't in what it did, but in the precendent it set.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

They had to shoehorn him even into Metroid II, where he has no place being there, because of course you gotta fight Ridley in a Metroid game.

Yeah. When he showed up near the end of MSR my thoughts were "Why the hell is he here? He doesn't show up until the next chronological adventure. I am going to kick his ass here, and a couple of days he shows up again?". Well he did not show up in Dread, spoilers I suppose.

And it became a major issue with them.

Mario was able to transcend it by being almost archetypal and mythological while Zelda originally could be seen as a form of mythological eternal reoccurance of the same story told in different ways. With the latter, though they then ruined it by trying to make a timeline of all the Zelda games when that just creates an insane mess of the series.

Anyway, Metroid is too grounded to benefit from that. It has higher expectations. SM wasn't so bad with the return to Zebes, but in retrospect, it laid the pattern of rehashing that would come.

It's fault wasn't in what it did, but in the precendent it set.

Agreed. Nintendo could get away with it with Mario and Zelda back then, but they could have done better with Super Metroid, making it more than 'Metroid' but then 'Super' (a lot of Metroid fans that will want my hide for saying this). Gameplay wise the game was great, improving in many ways like you and I have now discussed, but content wise...
I love Metroid Zero Mission but in a way it is also like Nintendo saying "Say, can we do Super Metroid again in some way?". I would consider in general the definite version of the first Metroid mission though. Just wish that stuff from the Manga had not made it in such as Zebes being Samus' former home, and of course the Samus and Ridley backstory.

I wish Nintendo would move on with Zelda, plotwise that is. Majora's Mask shows that a non Zelda and Ganondorf 'Zelda' game can be done (hmm would Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks storywise also qualfiy?). I think Nintendo could do some shaking up by ditching a lot of the familiar Zelda staples such as there being a princess Zelda, a Link, a Ganondorf, the quest about the Triforce in some way or form. It could still be in the same world but be about someone else and the journey this time being about something else. I am not asking form Game of Thrones grimdark politics or heaven forbid Final Fantasy crap (funny, I like Square's lesser known titles but I would not touch a FF game), but a plot that is less Zelda standard.

 

[Jaedar]

Her Metroid form will probably be downplayed in the future, that she can not use in general because she would turn full Metroid or something and become as dangerous as the original Metroids and the X parasites. Of course that is until near the end of the game when her Metroid form is the only way to defeat the final boss.

The final cutscene is a bit unclear, but it could be argued that the X parasite cures her of metroidism. Also, the metroid form seems like a double edged sword, since she literally can't even control her ship since touching it would drain all its power.

But yeah, I prefer phazon (which added to the lore) over these incestuous twists. Hopefully prime 4 will add something else new instead of bringing phazon back.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

But yeah, I prefer phazon (which added to the lore) over these incestuous twists. Hopefully prime 4 will add something else new instead of bringing phazon back.

Samus was suppose to be 'cured' of her Metroid dna at the end of Fusion from the word of god (Sakamoto), explaining why she could use the ice beam again after she was first told she could not use it because of her Metroid DNA. Why I do not understand, its not like the weapon is biological, and why would ice missiles work? That Samus had Metroid dna again in Dread was a retcon.
Well the idea that her Metroid form would be a double edged sword is what I am implying. But I also suggesting that Nintendo may make it so that taking on her Metroid form would make Samus also behave more like a Metroid, slowly turning into a complete one. Personally I find it a poor plot excuse but hey.

Phazon won't be back in Metroid Prime 4.

Spoiler

Well we know from the extra ending of Metroid Prime 3 with the mystery spaceship that Sylux will most likely be involved in Metroid Prime 4's plot, and in Federation Force he managed to steal the Metroid specimen the Federation was keeping after having retrieved it from the pirates secret research lab. There were rumors years ago that one of the people working on the project, I forgot his name but he was also involved in the development of the Zelda games, suggested using the gimmick of time travel this time. Possibly I imagine something like Ocarina of Time and Prince of Persia 2 Warrior Within with Samus travel between the present and the past version of the location where Metroid Prime 4 would take place. You know, altering the past to change something in the present like a collapsed wall or a destroyed bridge being restored. Sort of an alternative version of the Light World/Dark World idea in Metroid Prime Echoes.

 

[Beastro]

I wish Nintendo would move on with Zelda, plotwise that is. Majora's Mask shows that a non Zelda and Ganondorf 'Zelda' game can be done (hmm would Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks storywise also qualfiy?). I think Nintendo could do some shaking up by ditching a lot of the familiar Zelda staples such as there being a princess Zelda, a Link, a Ganondorf, the quest about the Triforce in some way or form. It could still be in the same world but be about someone else and the journey this time being about something else. I am not asking form Game of Thrones grimdark politics or heaven forbid Final Fantasy crap (funny, I like Square's lesser known titles but I would not touch a FF game), but a plot that is less Zelda standard.

That won't happen anymore.

Zelda 2 failed, Majora's Mask was acclaimed but underperformed badly. About the best it comes to non-archetypal Zelda that is beloved and did well was Link's Awakening.

What I think should be done and something Nintendo would NEVER do would be to do a Zelda game in the Legacy of Kain mold and have it from the perspective of Ganondorf. Same gameplay doing the usual stuff Link does, assaulting places alone defended by the powerful figures that control the world and you being an outcast wandering around attacked by everything. Those things work better when you're the villian trying to take over the world

They could fit it into the "original" timeline if they wanted to wxplain the dark themes where the Hero failed and produced the Dark World where Ganondorf won but was contained to buy time.

The sad thing is so much Nintendo stuff had an element of dark sinisterness to it, but that's been increasingly stripped away. A Link to the Past is a wonderful example of a good balance between a kid-friendly game that is steeped in evil. The theme of the Dark world and the Dark World dungeons reveal that best.

But that, like Metroid's horror elements (you're mindfucked first fighting Croc by him abruptly melting to death rather than just exploding like other bosses) are so weak there almost not there now.

 

[Machocruz]

That won't happen anymore.

Zelda 2 failed, Majora's Mask was acclaimed but underperformed badly. About the best it comes to non-archetypal Zelda that is beloved and did well was Link's Awakening.

If Zelda 2 failed to give Nintendo confidence to go ahead in non typical directions, it was not a failure of the game itself, but a failure of Nintendo's psychology. By all reasonable criteria, AoL was well received; critically, commercially, and from my anecdotal experience of the time, publicly. If they choose instead to base their decisions on internet revisionism/"black sheep" myth - much of which is propagated by the uninformed, the disingenuous, and by hearsayers- instead of solid metrics, then they are fools.

Having said that, I agree with your overall thesis. Brands carry associations that are hard to extricate people's minds from. People do not associate the LoZ experience with "playing with masks", or "riding choo choo trains." They associate with warrior fighting monsters. It's like putting 80s Schwarzenegger into a period romance, it's not the job they want to see him do. What Nintendo would have to do is change the game in such a way as to not disrupt the classical hero's quest that is central to it. I like the Ganondorf idea, as the "hero" doesn't have to be a good-guy, but he does need to fit the mold of a warrior/swordsman fighting evil (relatively greater than his own). I think it would be killer and the public response huge, and again a failure on Nintendo's part if they'd lack confidence in such an idea.

But they are a bunch of weenies and I think most of their ideas after the SNES have been terrible, so I don't trust them to do anything interesting or cool even if they tried your idea, but that's just me.

P.S. I think FromSoft has been stealing Nintendo's lunch in delivering the definitive 'warrior's quest' experience, up until BotW.

 

[Elthosian]

I didn't explain myself adequately, sorry.

What I wanted to say is that Retro Studios is banned from driving the plot of the series so their games have very little plot when compared to the recent "main" games, making them much more enjoyable and gameplay focused. Corruption was the exception and even then cutscenes happened very sparsely after the first 2 hours where they tried to copy Halo.

IMO, all Prime trilogy games are better than Dread.

Ah I see.
I think you are onto something there, because Retro could not 'advance' the Metroid storyline (this thread brings up the good point if it was done well after Super Metroid), their Metroid games focus on their own corner of the Metroid verse without having to tie it into Metroid 2, Super Metroid, etc. Only the original metroid/Metroid Zero Mission is the canon/background lore they have to adhere to. One may ask if the events in these games are relevant then for the Metroid series then but as Metroid has started losing me somewhat with Metroid Other M, Metroid Samus Returns (the retcons in the plot though I was not a big fan of the gameplay either), and Metroid Dread I would not say I have such a problem with Sakamoto ignoring the Prime series as Retro's people can in general ignore all the later entries done by him. Even Zero Mission (despite that I really like that game) can be put in question (it was released after Prime) of being canon as the continuation is based on the original Metroid's minimalistic plot.
BTW, having said that, I would love to see Retro tackle an original Metroid remake as a Prime game that ties into the first Metroid Prime/Remastered.
One Gamefaqs forums some people have asked of Prime 4 would take place after Metroid Dread. I both doubt it but I also do not see it as necessary as I really do not want to see more 'Evil Chozo' and X parasites.

I also prefer the Prime games over Dread. For one those damn shinespark puzzles that can piss me off sometimes. The worlds in those games also feel more part of the game and gameplay unlike Dread where it is often just a scenery change with exception of hot, cold, and water environments.

Yes, I'd definitely prefer Retro focusing on another "spin-off" that doesn't have to tie in with of Sakamoto's weird ideas.

I do like the shinespark puzzles but the environmental variety was a letdown. Too samey for me.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

What I think should be done and something Nintendo would NEVER do would be to do a Zelda game in the Legacy of Kain mold and have it from the perspective of Ganondorf. Same gameplay doing the usual stuff Link does, assaulting places alone defended by the powerful figures that control the world and you being an outcast wandering around attacked by everything. Those things work better when you're the villian trying to take over the world

Canon or non canon, I could see this work. Ganondorf maybe going from anti-hero into villainy (I am not sure if he ever should start out as 'good'). Being born as a male in a tribe that is mostly made up of females, he is already considered a bit of an outcast, and it doesn't help that there is some law or prophecy that tells that whenever the Gerudo tribe produces a male that he is to be made king of the tribe. The current leadership wants to get rid of him because he is a threat to her and whatever successor she has picked, so he is sent out on a mission or quest, supposedly for the benefit of the tribe but in truth to get him eliminated.
It doesn't help that everyone outside the tribe sees Ganondorf as just another thief and raider, most of the NPCs judging him on that. Even when he does things that help other people some only grudgingly acknowledge it.

Drat, completely forgot; because he is a male Gerudo and believed to be a reincarnation of the King or God of Evil in the Zelda universe, he also has that against him. So here we have a person who is not necessarily 'Good' as in a 'Hero of the Downtrodden and Defender of the Realm', but he wasn't automatically an evil warlord and magician yet either.

I think it would be killer and the public response huge, and again a failure on Nintendo's part if they'd lack confidence in such an idea.

This would indeed be an interesting direction and if Nintendo would have allowed it show that they are willing to move away from the IP's standard recurring elements and really try something different to shake things up.

so I don't trust them to do anything interesting or cool even if they tried your idea, but that's just me.

No they wouldn't, most likely fearing that it would damage the Zelda property in some way even when the goal is to expand the property beyond what it is now.

I do like the shinespark puzzles but the environmental variety was a letdown. Too samey for me.

Some need to be so damn precise, and I do not always have the reflexes/reaction speed for that. That does not make the puzzles fun for me as I have to try over and over again. And when there is a time limit, how stupid the reward may be, it can be extra frustrating.

The sad thing is so much Nintendo stuff had an element of dark sinisterness to it, but that's been increasingly stripped away. A Link to the Past is a wonderful example of a good balance between a kid-friendly game that is steeped in evil. The theme of the Dark world and the Dark World dungeons reveal that best.

There was indeed this feeling of darkness in Nintendo's games of years ago. I remember when I played LttP years ago for the first time and discovered some of this plot I had this sense of hopelessness as I felt I was going to have to face this great force of darkness that I would not stand a chance against. This feeling only increased when I arrived in the Dark World. This was a place where evil/darkness had won. Those few others of the light world who had arrived here did not have happy fates either. At least two of them were turned into trees.

Majora's Mask had some of the same darkness. Some of the bodies Link assumed through masks were people who had died. And at the end of the game these people were not coming back to life again. There is this cutscene showing one character mourning his dead son who had become a dead twisted tree.

es, I'd definitely prefer Retro focusing on another "spin-off" that doesn't have to tie in with of Sakamoto's weird ideas.

I would be perfectly fine if the Metroid Prime series would take place completely in its own continuity or 'universe' (God I hate how milked out that has become) that has no further connection with the 2D Metroid series any more. The only connection being that both started with the original Metroid. There are recurring elements like the Metroids, Space Pirates, Ridley, Chozo, etc. But these are all different from the main universe.

BTW first time I would be interested in an alternative universe as I hated the Star Trek Kelvinverse, the Kurtzman verse (I don't believe his productions are part of the original Trek verse), and the Star Wars reboot (Legends had its flaws and stains but damn is the Disney Wars verse crap).

But they are a bunch of weenies and I think most of their ideas after the SNES have been terrible

I think Nintendo did well with the Metroid/Metroid Prime games but I lost my interest in most of their other IPs. I was never into racing so F Zero was not my thing though I would have welcomed a Captain Falcon spin off as an action-adventure game. Starfox, well we have seen how that IP went, and whenever Nintendo produces a new entry it is often a reboot of the first game again. Kid Icarus was completely forgotten until the 3DS game and I can't play that game because of its painful controls (Nintendo, release this game on the Switch). Mario... well I liked the spin off games like the JRPGs and the Luigi's Mansion games, but honestly this IP is not for me and the same goes for the Kirby IP. Nintendo reinvented itself so much as a kids and toys company that I even wonder why they are holding on to their more serious/darker IPs. Nintendo barely making new entries in these and rather going for Mario, Zelda, Kirby, and Pokemon, tells me that they do not really know what to do with these IPs either, so just sell them Nintendo or discontinue them like you did with F Zero.

Back in the day I really regretted getting a Nintendo 64 after the SNES as that console has such a variety of good titles and third party support. I should have gone for the Playstation 1 instead. Saturn had good games as well but as usual the best ones were kept in Japan, support in Europe was pretty average. My disappointment with the Nintendo 64 was so big that I completely turned to PC gaming until the PS2 and the Gamecube came along. And the games I preferred playing on the Gamecube were, you guessed it; Prime 1 and 2, and the Resident Evil games even if most of them were ports.

Edit: stupid grammar errors.

 

[Machocruz]

But they are a bunch of weenies and I think most of their ideas after the SNES have been terrible

I think Nintendo did well with the Metroid/Metroid Prime games but I lost my interest in most of their other IPs. I was never into racing so F Zero was not my thing though I would have welcomed a Captain Falcon spin off as an action-adventure game. Starfox, well we have seen how that IP went, and whenever Nintendo produces a new entry it is often a reboot of the first game again. Kid Icarus was completely forgotten until the 3DS game and I can't play that game because of its painful controls (Nintendo, release this game on the Switch). Mario... well I liked the spin off games like the JRPGs and the Luigi's Mansion games, but honestly this IP is not for me and the same goes for the Kirby IP. Nintendo reinvented itself so much as a kids and toys company that I even wonder why they are holding on to their more serious/darker IPs. Nintendo barely making new entries in these and rather going for Mario, Zelda, Kirby, and Pokemon, tells me that they do not really know what to do with these IPs either, so just sell them Nintendo or discontinue them like you did with F Zero.

Back in the day I really regretted getting a Nintendo 64 after the SNES as that console has such a variety of good titles and third party support. I should have gone for the Playstation 1 instead. Saturn had good games as well but as usual the best ones were kept in Japan, support in Europe was pretty average. My disappointment with the Nintendo 64 was so big that I completely turned to PC gaming until the PS2 and the Gamecube came along. And the games I preferred playing on the Gamecube were, you guessed it; Prime 1 and 2, and the Resident Evil games even if most of them were ports.

Edit: stupid grammar errors.

I was working on a semi-long rant about why I think Nintendo has been lame after SNES, but the long and short of it is I just don't like their tastes across a number of areas whether it's mechanics, art direction/character design, tone, atmosphere, voice acting, music, lore/lore expansion, tone, new game ideas, treatment of old series, changes to series, etc. They have the wrong people on the wrong projects and they confuse "family oriented" with "babified/sissified". So you would get a Ganondorf game that is tonally wrong, incongruent with 'dark hero's quest'. They'd make it look like Spongebob, you'd have a trans coded sidekick, and you'd spend more time on cake decorating "puzzles" than kicking ass.

 

[Beastro]

What I think should be done and something Nintendo would NEVER do would be to do a Zelda game in the Legacy of Kain mold and have it from the perspective of Ganondorf. Same gameplay doing the usual stuff Link does, assaulting places alone defended by the powerful figures that control the world and you being an outcast wandering around attacked by everything. Those things work better when you're the villian trying to take over the world

Canon or non canon, I could see this work. Ganondorf maybe going from anti-hero into villainy (I am not sure if he ever should start out as 'good'). Being born as a male in a tribe that is mostly made up of females, he is already considered a bit of an outcast, and it doesn't help that there is some law or prophecy that tells that whenever the Gerudo tribe produces a male that he is to be made king of the tribe. The current leadership wants to get rid of him because he is a threat to her and whatever successor she has picked, so he is sent out on a mission or quest, supposedly for the benefit of the tribe but in truth to get him eliminated.
It doesn't help that everyone outside the tribe sees Ganondorf as just another thief and raider, most of the NPCs judging him on that. Even when he does things that help other people some only grudgingly acknowledge it.

Drat, completely forgot; because he is a male Gerudo and believed to be a reincarnation of the King or God of Evil in the Zelda universe, he also has that against him. So here we have a person who is not necessarily 'Good' as in a 'Hero of the Downtrodden and Defender of the Realm', but he wasn't automatically an evil warlord and magician yet either.

I think it would be killer and the public response huge, and again a failure on Nintendo's part if they'd lack confidence in such an idea.

This would indeed be an interesting direction and if Nintendo would have allowed it show that they are willing to move away from the IP's standard recurring elements and really try something different to shake things up.

so I don't trust them to do anything interesting or cool even if they tried your idea, but that's just me.

No they wouldn't, most likely fearing that it would damage the Zelda property in some way even when the goal is to expand the property beyond what it is now.

I do like the shinespark puzzles but the environmental variety was a letdown. Too samey for me.

Some need to be so damn precise, and I do not always have the reflexes/reaction speed for that. That does not make the puzzles fun for me as I have to try over and over again. And when there is a time limit, how stupid the reward may be, it can be extra frustrating.

The sad thing is so much Nintendo stuff had an element of dark sinisterness to it, but that's been increasingly stripped away. A Link to the Past is a wonderful example of a good balance between a kid-friendly game that is steeped in evil. The theme of the Dark world and the Dark World dungeons reveal that best.

There was indeed this feeling of darkness in Nintendo's games of years ago. I remember when I played LttP years ago for the first time and discovered some of this plot I had this sense of hopelessness as I felt I was going to have to face this great force of darkness that I would not stand a chance against. This feeling only increased when I arrived in the Dark World. This was a place where evil/darkness had won. Those few others of the light world who had arrived here did not have happy fates either. At least two of them were turned into trees.

Majora's Mask had some of the same darkness. Some of the bodies Link assumed through masks were people who had died. And at the end of the game these people were not coming back to life again. There is this cutscene showing one character mourning his dead son who had become a dead twisted tree.

es, I'd definitely prefer Retro focusing on another "spin-off" that doesn't have to tie in with of Sakamoto's weird ideas.

I would be perfectly fine if the Metroid Prime series would take place completely in its own continuity or 'universe' (God I hate how milked out that has become) that has no further connection with the 2D Metroid series any more. The only connection being that both started with the original Metroid. There are recurring elements like the Metroids, Space Pirates, Ridley, Chozo, etc. But these are all different from the main universe.

BTW first time I would be interested in an alternative universe as I hated the Star Trek Kelvinverse, the Kurtzman verse (I don't believe his productions are part of the original Trek verse), and the Star Wars reboot (Legends had its flaws and stains but damn is the Disney Wars verse crap).

But they are a bunch of weenies and I think most of their ideas after the SNES have been terrible

I think Nintendo did well with the Metroid/Metroid Prime games but I lost my interest in most of their other IPs. I was never into racing so F Zero was not my thing though I would have welcomed a Captain Falcon spin off as an action-adventure game. Starfox, well we have seen how that IP went, and whenever Nintendo produces a new entry it is often a reboot of the first game again. Kid Icarus was completely forgotten until the 3DS game and I can't play that game because of its painful controls (Nintendo, release this game on the Switch). Mario... well I liked the spin off games like the JRPGs and the Luigi's Mansion games, but honestly this IP is not for me and the same goes for the Kirby IP. Nintendo reinvented itself so much as a kids and toys company that I even wonder why they are holding on to their more serious/darker IPs. Nintendo barely making new entries in these and rather going for Mario, Zelda, Kirby, and Pokemon, tells me that they do not really know what to do with these IPs either, so just sell them Nintendo or discontinue them like you did with F Zero.

Back in the day I really regretted getting a Nintendo 64 after the SNES as that console has such a variety of good titles and third party support. I should have gone for the Playstation 1 instead. Saturn had good games as well but as usual the best ones were kept in Japan, support in Europe was pretty average. My disappointment with the Nintendo 64 was so big that I completely turned to PC gaming until the PS2 and the Gamecube came along. And the games I preferred playing on the Gamecube were, you guessed it; Prime 1 and 2, and the Resident Evil games even if most of them were ports.

Edit: stupid grammar errors.

I'm not thinking of Ganondorf being an anti-hero but an outright villain. The game is to see him win (at least as far as he can ala how he got bound to the Dark World in ALttP).

I first thought of it thinking of a game where you play the last of an order of evil knights whose Sauron was banished 2000 years ago and his remaining forces have whittled over centuries to just you as the last recruit, but your old master found a way to being your Dark Lord back and the Zelda gameplay is getting the maguffins to release him.

A game that way then has Zelda gameplay from a more logical, and different perspective rather than dungeons and ancient ruins filled with monsters, you have castles, cathedrals and other plays full of good guys trting to stop you.

I had a PSX and a N64. I played the hell out of Goldeneye and OOT, the only games I owned, but I mainly played the Playstation. PCs saved me from having to choose with the next generation. No option could match what my new family could could offer.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

I'm not thinking of Ganondorf being an anti-hero but an outright villain. The game is to see him win (at least as far as he can ala how he got bound to the Dark World in ALttP).

I first thought of it thinking of a game where you play the last of an order of evil knights whose Sauron was banished 2000 years ago and his remaining forces have whittled over centuries to just you as the last recruit, but your old master found a way to being your Dark Lord back and the Zelda gameplay is getting the maguffins to release him.

A game that way then has Zelda gameplay from a more logical, and different perspective rather than dungeons and ancient ruins filled with monsters, you have castles, cathedrals and other plays full of good guys trting to stop you.

I thought a 'fall to darkness' story would be good but this could also be the setup. But like you mentioned, Nintendo would never have such a project made because of various reasons even if their established IPs could do with some shaking up (the right type, not the bullshit we got with Metroid and Starfox).

I had a PSX and a N64. I played the hell out of Goldeneye and OOT, the only games I owned, but I mainly played the Playstation. PCs saved me from having to choose with the next generation.

I got more into story driven games at the time and FPS (I was into platformers but I was growing tired of them) but Goldeneye was not really my thing because of the controls and I wanted something more than just the Zelda games. The PSX had an interesting library though a lot of the titles I would have wanted to play never came out in Europe or even the West. (most recently I also found out that a couple of mecha theme games I would like to play never got a Western release). So moving on to the PC was probably the better choice in the end.

On the topic of the PSX games, I am glad fans are now translating some of these titles now so that gamers in the West can finally get to play them.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

That won't happen anymore.

Zelda 2 failed, Majora's Mask was acclaimed but underperformed badly. About the best it comes to non-archetypal Zelda that is beloved and did well was Link's Awakening.

I wish they would leave Hyrule more often.

I bet the problem isn't that non-Hyrule titles would sell bad, it's that they are percieved as "odd" or gimmick entries rather than straight up adventures. Majora's Mask looks "odd" and might put people off who just want a straight high fantasy. Looking at the Hero of Legend games (my favourites), A Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, Oracle of Seasons, Oracle of Ages, they went to four different lands (well, three if we consider Link's Awakening's 'Koholint Island' as a dream).