Might and Magic Might & Magic X Pre-Release Thread

[Sceptic]

The game's forums have become much more active. They're still full of strange, butthurt people, but there are also people who like the game.

My god, SO MANY PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE LACK SF ELEMENTS. of Ubisoft fora.

 

[Grunker]

The game's forums have become much more active. They're still full of strange, butthurt people, but there are also people who like the game.

My god, SO MANY PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE LACK SF ELEMENTS. of Ubisoft fora.

To this day I still doubt my "allegiance" to some Codexers when it seems the shitty lore of those days is actually most important to them, and not the core gameplay elements I so miss. Shitty lore is everywhere, you don't need TB exploration-crawlers for that.

 

[Varnaan]

The game's forums have become much more active. They're still full of strange, butthurt people, but there are also people who like the game.

My god, SO MANY PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE LACK SF ELEMENTS. of Ubisoft fora.

There are more people whining about the grid based movement and turn based battle than about the (lack of) sci-fi elements.

 

[Grunker]

Grid-based movement is pretty stupid, bro. The turn-based whiners should be shot though.

 

[Zeriel]

Nothing wrong with grid-based movement. Bitches need to play Demise if they don't remember early M&M, and learn to love the grid.

 

[IDtenT]

How is a grid stupid?

 

[Grunker]

How is a grid stupid?

Jewish Rabbi asks: What is the advantage of grid-based movement over free exploration?

No one is saying grids aren't good for combat. But for exploration? A grid has 0 advantage over free movement there.

 

[Zeriel]

It's not as if we don't have plenty of full 3D, open movement hiking sims on the market if that's your thing. My argument in favor of grid-based movement is basically my argument in favor of turn-based combat: some people like it, there are way more games on the market satisfying the people who don't like it, so why not?

 

[Gozma]

How is a grid stupid?

Jewish Rabbi asks: What is the advantage of grid-based movement over free exploration?

No one is saying grids aren't good for combat. But for exploration? A grid has 0 advantage over free movement there.

PorkaMorka said it somewhere else: it makes complete exploration much faster and more possible. You don't have to ram your FOV into every corner to find everything, you just have to walk into a very finite number of tiles.

I've also said that it's good because you can make movement arbitrarily fast and keypress-accurate on a grid. If you step outside in Xeen, if you have all the travel abilities, you can hold down any direction and be at the edge of the world in about two seconds. Not great for "immersion" but it's amazing to be about 10 seconds from every overworld tile in the "universe" at the same time in the surreal gamey feel of M&M.

 

[Stabwound]

It's not as if we don't have plenty of full 3D, open movement hiking sims on the market if that's your thing. My argument in favor of grid-based movement is basically my argument in favor of turn-based combat: some people like it, there are way more games on the market satisfying the people who don't like it, so why not?

That perfectly sums it up. How many grid-based PC blobbers have there been in the past 10 years in this turn-based style? I can't think of a single one that was released in English, besides Swords & Sorcery, which was a decent albiet indie game.

Agreed: every single CRPG these days is real time, especially 3rd person games. Give us an updated grid-based, turn-based blobber. Let us see how MM6+ would have turned out if they didn't go 3D roaming popamole.

The grid/turn-based movement is my favorite thing about this entire game. We need more grid-based blobbers!

 

[Sceptic]

To this day I still doubt my "allegiance" to some Codexers when it seems the shitty lore of those days is actually most important to them, and not the core gameplay elements I so miss.

Grid-based movement is pretty stupid, bro.

 

[Darth Roxor]

To this day I still doubt my "allegiance" to some Codexers when it seems the shitty lore of those days is actually most important to them, and not the core gameplay elements I so miss. Shitty lore is everywhere, you don't need TB exploration-crawlers for that.

 

[Wizfall]

I have been raised playing grid based blobber like Dungeon Master, EoB, Wizardry....
When i learned Wizardry 8 was going to be free roaming i was a bit skeptical but i found it excellent.
Grid based or free roaming i was very surprise to find it almost didn't make any difference, i got the same feelings.
I can understand preference for one system over the other but being buthurt about it for what it change in a turn based blobber ...
I believe that most people complaining about the grid based system have never played one TB.

 

[Grunker]

To this day I still doubt my "allegiance" to some Codexers when it seems the shitty lore of those days is actually most important to them, and not the core gameplay elements I so miss. Shitty lore is everywhere, you don't need TB exploration-crawlers for that.

You're not going to make me defend some grognard developer's choice to put android in his generic fantasy world as something TREWLI EWNEEK END KEWL. The strength of Might & Magic and Wizardry never was their banalshitboring setting and stories - it was their excellent exploration and progression mechanics.

I want turn-based combat, nice party progression and awesome exploration. I don't give a rat's ass about the story in a Might & Magic game, and you cheapen the historic name by being fanboy enough to claim that the setting was a strong suit.

To this day I still doubt my "allegiance" to some Codexers when it seems the shitty lore of those days is actually most important to them, and not the core gameplay elements I so miss.

Grid-based movement is pretty stupid, bro.

I believe that most people complaining about the grid based system have never played one TB.

I believe you just confirmed to me that there are no advantages to grid-based over free exploration. Why else would you have to use a bullshit strawman instead of an actual argument?

There is no reason save nostalgia to appreciate the juvenile writing attempts of these games or the locked grid some of them used for movement. They are not the things that made these games great.

How is a grid stupid?

Jewish Rabbi asks: What is the advantage of grid-based movement over free exploration?

No one is saying grids aren't good for combat. But for exploration? A grid has 0 advantage over free movement there.

PorkaMorka said it somewhere else: it makes complete exploration much faster and more possible. You don't have to ram your FOV into every corner to find everything, you just have to walk into a very finite number of tiles.

Meaning exploration becomes a matter of exhausting grid squares - not of actually exploring your surroundings, remembering where you've been, and recognizing points of interest.

And even if what you say was an advantage - which it isn't - it in no way makes up for the added hassle.

I've also said that it's good because you can make movement arbitrarily fast and keypress-accurate on a grid. If you step outside in Xeen, if you have all the travel abilities, you can hold down any direction and be at the edge of the world in about two seconds. Not great for "immersion" but it's amazing to be about 10 seconds from every overworld tile in the "universe" at the same time in the surreal gamey feel of M&M

A bullshit argument if I ever saw one. How does grid-based movement allow for faster speeds than non-grid-based movement does? That's right, it doesn't.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The strength of Might & Magic and Wizardry never was their banalshitboring setting and stories

Says you. Try saying that again in the Might & Magic Megathread (TM) and see how many people disagree with you. The tongue in cheek, almost parodic fusion of high fantasy and science fiction was crucial to establishing both of the series charms, perhaps even more so for M&M than for Wizardry. If you think the settings are banalshitboring you need to get some motherfucking reality check because it was exactly that that made them NOT bsb.

Take the whole Sheltem/Corak storyline of MM 1-5, now remove all the wacky sci-fi and see what you have left - THAT is banalshitboring generic fantasy.

I want turn-based combat, nice party progression and awesome exploration. I don't give a rat's ass about the story in a Might & Magic game, and you cheapen the historic name by being fanboy enough to claim that the setting was a strong suit.

Here, I bolded for you two parts that are mutually exclusive. You cheapen the historic name by claiming that turn-based combat is so important, as well as "nice party progression". The last M&Ms that had any good combat were 1-2, 3-9 totally sucked ass combatwise when looked at it objectively. Party progression? Practically non-existent in 3-5, a little bit more in 6-8 because it added running around maps seeking trainers every once in a while, which often even turned out counterintuitive and not fun (I'm looking at you MM7). Truly, a spectacular and strong feat.

 

[Grunker]

Says you. Try saying that again in the Might & Magic Megathread (TM) and see how many people disagree with you. The tongue in cheek, almost parodic fusion of high fantasy and science fiction was crucial to establishing both of the series charms, perhaps even more so for M&M than for Wizardry. If you think the settings are banalshitboring you need to get some motherfucking reality check because it was exactly that that made them NOT bsb.

Take the whole Sheltem/Corak storyline of MM 1-5, now remove all the wacky sci-fi and see what you have left - THAT is banalshitboring generic fantasy.

Every P&P at the time did this at well. It was a staple of fantasy roleplaying to implement wacky science fiction elements because the guys who developed these things were huge nerds that were fans of LotR and Star Wars and had little to no writing abilities. Both M&M and Wizardry guys implemented SCI-FI partly because they were playing those RPGs. Even Forgotten Realms was supposed to go down this path but was thankfully saved.

You seemingly have no idea how funny you sound when you say the SCI-FI saved it from being generic - back then, the SCI-FI was exactly what made them generic.

I'm not surprised many people disagree with me. Nostalgia is one hell of a drug. Any redeeming qualities found in marvelously shitty writing and world crafting of M&M and Wizardry is nostalgia, plain & fucking simple.

Here, I bolded for you two parts that are mutually exclusive. You cheapen the historic name by claiming that turn-based combat is so important, as well as "nice party progression". The last M&Ms that had any good combat were 1-2, 3-9 totally sucked ass combatwise when looked at it objectively. Party progression? Practically non-existent in 3-5, a little bit more in 6-8 because it added running around maps seeking trainers every once in a while, which often even turned out counterintuitive and not fun (I'm looking at you MM7). Truly, a spectacular and strong feat.

Bullshitz. While the systems by themselves were never that deep, the scope was huge because of world size and game length. The mechanics weren't deep, but they were broad. The progression mechanics were very deep, especially in 6-7.

These things made the games worth playing. If a simple fantasy sci-fi setting had been enough, so many roleplaying games should have went down in history as fantastic, while they didn't. Why? Because they didn't have the immense strengths of Might & Magic: The extreme broadness of the mechanics.

EDIT: Ah, fuck, I just remembered I was talking to someone who plays League of Legends for the lore

 

[Darth Roxor]

Nostalgia is one hell of a drug.

Stopped reading right there.

Fuck you and the IGN you rode on. The first time I played M&M was 3 or 4 years ago, and it was only last year that I finished going through MM8, so you can stick your nostalgia argument up your butt.

 

[Grunker]

Fuck you and the IGN you rode on

Again with this strawman after I've confessed my love of turn-based combat and deep character progression

"You don't like every single detail about the classics? BACK TO IGN YOU MECHANICS-FAG!"

The first time I played M&M was 3 or 4 years ago, and it was only last year that I finished going through MM8, so you can stick your nostalgia argument up your butt.

Replaying stuff doesn't make the nostalgia less effective. I often play Lands of Lore and I fully admit that I overrate it because of my nostalgia for the game as my first RPG.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Again with this strawman after I've confessed my love of turn-based combat and deep character progression

"You don't like every single detail about the classics? BACK TO IGN YOU MECHANICS-FAG!"

Are you dumb?

"Nostalgia goggles" is the prime popamole media pseudo-argument that is used all the time concerning old classics being raped, and, rightly so, each time it pops up it gets mocked to hell and back. I don't give a shit how much you love turn-based combat and character progression, that was not even the point.

So to paraphrase,

"You don't agree with my obviously superior, clear and objective analysis as to why this stupid change is good? CHECK YOUR NOSTALGIA PRIVILEGE, YOU GROGNARD"

 

[Grunker]

Fair enough, so the accusation of nostalgia is just as weak as the "go back to IGN" comment. You still didn't reply to my arguments though.

Actually, I'm contradicting myself. Your love for the objectively shitty lore in League of Legends can't be nostalgia, so maybe you're just born with a raging boner for horrible worldcrafting

 

[Darth Roxor]

Your obsession with my supposed (blatantly false and strawmanly) "love" for lol lore is almost as ridiculous as the fallout dethroning that was spanning multiple threads.

You still didn't reply to my arguments though.

Stopped reading right there.

Because I realised arguing with you is akin to arguing with Volourn.

 

[Krivol]

Grunker is a part of Codex Staff? Let's invite Gaider, Howard and Herve to be honourable staff members too...

 

[Infinitron]

Grunker is a part of Codex Staff?

Uh, Grunker has been on staff since five days after your joindate.

 

[Krivol]

Grunker is a part of Codex Staff?

Uh, Grunker has been on staff since five days after your joindate.

Ahhh, yes, joindate is the moment I found RPGCodex... True story...

 

[Infinitron]

Grunker is a part of Codex Staff?

Uh, Grunker has been on staff since five days after your joindate.

Ahhh, yes, joindate is the moment I found RPGCodex... True story...

Reported Krivol to the Alt Extermination Force™

My point was that it's been over a year, so uh, better late than never I guess