Might and Magic Might & Magic X Pre-Release Thread

[CappenVarra]

Ashan sucks. It is known. Therefore, any game using Ashan is automatically worse than a game not using Ashan. Isn't it obvious? :D

 

[Shadenuat]

will having Ashan mean Might & Magic X is automatically a worse game than prior M&M's or not?

Here's my opinion as a storyfag. I think yes, Enroth or it's kind of the setting would fit a game like M&MX better. Thing is, developers try to mix together something serious and complex, about politics and shit, together with nostalgia giveaways and easter eggs. That's, I think, the first failure, because mixing stuff like New Sorpigal and spiders in a well with glorious Four Dragons already seems like very crude, and out of place. In Enroth, a well full of spiders would go as easy for player as cellar full of vampires, blasters or space ships. So by using Enroth they'd already win this small battle - they won't have to dilute their Fall of Uriel with wacky stuff from old games, cause, you know, they could create an old school story from beginning. Without being too serious about it.
Wacky shit for nostaliga would work flawlessly in wacky nostalgic setting. Automatically out of place in their own setting.

Now, you Grunker said like, these games focus is not on the story. Well, wouldn't something light hearted, simple and wacky give game better focus then? Which is what Enroth was. The official page implies we are going into political machinations and intrigues, and the setting is all SUPEREPIC, at least from what I remember in HoMMVI, with your armies of light and darkness, but we know what we will be doing in game, right? We will travel tiles, kill bandits, loot chests and explore tiled dungeons. Again, something more simple, clever, wacky, wouldn't it fit gameplay better? Like Grimrock. Grimrock doesn't have armies of light and darkness, political intrigues or machinations, it just have a focus on your party and what your party does.
So I think Enroth would fit game much better. It's not as serious, it is entertaining, it would fit perfectly with all old-school easter eggs they want to place in the game, and it would help to feel focus of the game, which is on party and what it does, with story being just a fun background.

As Zed said, you either do it light and easy, or bring out the heavy guns and actually make story worth it. I do not believe "worth it" will happen, so I'd play nostalgia card instead.

 

[Morphi]

Well when you start MMX it is made clear that you are just treasure hunters, so it fits what you are actually doing. Of course I don't know if they go full epictard later on...

 

[Grunker]

The Codex actually arguing that they should bring back an old setting simply because of nostalgia. And to think 20 pages ago I was called 'retarded' and an 'idiot' for suggesting that it might be the case.

I give up.

 

[Infinitron]

Well when you start MMX it is made clear that you are just treasure hunters, so it fits what you are actually doing. Of course I don't know if they go full epictard later on...

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-update-q-a-open-dev-chat.84631/#post-2753003

Question 12:
<unacomn> Lore wise, how deeply are you rooting yourselves in Ashan, and how much liberty can you take in making up your own monsters, places, characters, etc. (Also, by any chance, does the game end with Ashan exploding and everyone running away to rebuild Enroth? (I really dislike Ashan as a Might and Magic setting in general ))
<@Marzhin93> @unacomm: we are staying true to the lore of Ashan, but being a RPG allows us more flexibility. It's not all about epic battles and sieges, it can be about the life of the actual people of Ashan. I think it gives quite a different perspective on that world.

Question 51:
<Milek> and what about the main story? do we start as group of unknown people who get involved in a big thing?
<@Marzhin93> @Milek: mostly yes. You are not the Chosen Ones. Just a group of Raiders that will make a difference.

Question 53:
<Milek> will we save the world?
<@Marzhin93> @Milek: no.
<@Marzhin93> But prevent some bad stuff to happen? If you're good enough

Question 54:
<narupley> Saving the world is overrated.
<@Marzhin93> @narupley: I agree, and that's where taking place on "just" a peninsula is actually a good thing. It forces us to keep things "local"

 

[Darth Roxor]

The Codex actually arguing

Fucking Codex, mang

 

[Gozma]

I want less and dumber writing with the biggest dorks in the world putting the greatest hits of mythology, urban legend, science fiction, folklore and shit they made up to round out the monster manual in every dungeon like a proper M&M with no regard for ecology, consistency, narrative, or whatever. World a random distribution of biomes? Why not? Towns that do not have the slightest hint of quotidian reality? Fucking yes. That is ideal M&M writing. M&M is not about generating a different fictive world to live in for a while and nothing should have significant context outside of interaction with the player. It's a completely different narrative basis than the stereotypical modern game story/setting.

I know they won't do that because some Ubi exec wants them to build up intellectual capital in a particular fantasy world so they can put other games in it. It's cool bros we know its the suits

 

[Grunker]

I want Limbic to fit their game into my narrow, personal definition of what Might & Magic is

 

[IDtenT]

All manner of fags are despicable.

 

[Nael]

I want Limbic to fit their game into my narrow, personal definition of what Might & Magic is

I think what a lot of us would rather see a return to the nacelles than a continuation of this shit HoMM setting.

 

[Shadenuat]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-update-q-a-open-dev-chat.84631/#post-2753003

It doesn't seem to imply anything specific, just talk. We won't save the world, but we will save something, it's Ashan but we have some freedom, dum de dum. The movie they showed us doesn't have anything to do with raiders at least, and the plot so far for me was about dealing with local problems, that's all.

 

[Zed]

I didn't know you were dictating this entire discussion. As I see it, forums are a place for anybody to take any discussion anywhere. Not that I see what I posted a irrelevant (although this is) - just pointing it out.

Sorry for being a party-pooper trying to keep to some sort of core to he argument so we might learn something. Meaninglessness ftw!

Actually, I don't mind at all if you want to debate in east and west, but I sure as fuck can't see what's wrong with me saying that's not my cup of tea. I only entered this discussion because I saw an obvious falsum; that this game should be implicitly worse because of its use of Ashan. Every single point I've made has been related to this. If you want to have a different discussion, then more power to you, but that was the discussion that interested me. As such, you can see how I can become confused when you reply to that discussion with an entirely new topic.

Not because I wanted to debate whether making fucking Chris Avellone head of the writing deparment would improve the story. Your whole post can be summarized as "better writing is better writing." Well, woop-de-fucking-doo. If you want to put up some strawman about how wanting to stick to a single discussion at a time makes me a politician, then hey, fuck you.

Bah, this is fruitless.

There was a notion that good writing was not for MMXL. That what some call "generic fantasy shit" is "good enough", either because of the gameplay being the focus or some other reason.

I replied to Metro trying to argue why this is silly.

You enter that discussion by responding to me.

So: Fuck me? Fuck you. Not exactly the first time I've seen you in a discussion suddenly flip a switch and focus on what you deem relevant or not. You've been called out on that bullshit behavior before. Just don't fucking reply if you for some reason don't want to. I wasn't even taking this discussion with you specifically so I don't see why you're so personal about it.

 

[Grunker]

I want Limbic to fit their game into my narrow, personal definition of what Might & Magic is

I think what a lot of us would rather see a return to the nacelles than a continuation of this shit HoMM setting.

I was mostly referring to Gozma's post, but yeah, you all keep stating this as if that makes it true, without even a semblance of argument to accompany the statement. That the Nacelles or any other M&M-related stuff is leagues better than Ashan. They're not. They're variations of the same basic crap. I've argued why for 20 pages now, and all I'm provided in response is "no they're not, nyah." When I offered nostalgia as an explanation, I was hit by a shitstorm, and then 20 pages later nostalgia is the exact argument used against me.

I am clearly the delusional fuck who can't keep track of arguments here. Sure thing.

So: Fuck me? Fuck you. Not exactly the first time I've seen you in a discussion suddenly flip a switch and focus on what you deem relevant or not. You've been called out on that bullshit behavior before.

Yeah, suddenly starting the ad hominem is a great way to demonstrate you willingness to debate. I haven't flipped a switch you fuck, look at the way this discussion started: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/might-magic-x.81387/page-72#post-2827263

This was always a topic of Ashan vs. old settings. I am fucking trying to say we should stick to that core, and I'M the one "flipping a switch"? Yeah, A+ for fucking argumentative performance right there.

I'm outta here.

EDIT: Variations on one-liners and pics seem to be your thing in this thread Roxor.

 

[Darth Roxor]

lol

 

[Shadenuat]

When I offered nostalgia as an explanation, I was hit by a shitstorm, and then 20 pages later nostalgia is the exact argument used against me.

Ah, so you're the victim here!
I don't follow people 20 pages back. And I don't see nostalgia as most important part of my argument; it's more about what setting suits the gameplay.
(regardless of me being Enrothfag)

I'm outta here.

7 times

 

[Zed]

So: Fuck me? Fuck you. Not exactly the first time I've seen you in a discussion suddenly flip a switch and focus on what you deem relevant or not. You've been called out on that bullshit behavior before.

Yeah, suddenly starting the ad hominem is a great way to demonstrate you willingness to debate. I haven't flipped a switch you fuck, look at the way this discussion started: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/might-magic-x.81387/page-72#post-2827263

This was always a topic of Ashan vs. old settings. I am fucking trying to say we should stick to that core, and I'M the one "flipping a switch"? Yeah, A+ for fucking argumentative performance right there.

I'm outta here.

EDIT: Variations on one-liners and pics seem to be your thing in this thread Roxor.

This is some Hiver-level shit.

Yeah, get out already.

@Infinitron

Question 51:
<Milek> and what about the main story? do we start as group of unknown people who get involved in a big thing?
<@Marzhin93> @Milek: mostly yes. You are not the Chosen Ones. Just a group of Raiders that will make a difference.

The intro to the game is like... "they started out as raiders, but would go on to become legends."
Kinda makes me wonder what exactly it is they will do to become legends, while restricted to a smaller geographic region, and also not saving the world.

 

[Darth Roxor]

EDIT: Variations on one-liners and pics seem to be your thing in this thread @Roxor.

Yes, because this entire latest discuss!!ion is very silly and deserves nothing more.

 

[Zeriel]

The reason for the visual style is that the suits at Ubisoft wanted a Grimrock style look and probably agreed to this project under that condition.

The majority of models are from Heroes 6, so that's not why. The real reason is just budget, although I suspect even if all new assets were created they would be very similar, since they would be using the same artists. Same reason new Blizzard games are not the same as old Blizzard games--not the same people involved, and the games will never be the same regardless of how much they try to "recreate the magic".

It doesn't seem to imply anything specific, just talk. We won't save the world, but we will save something, it's Ashan but we have some freedom, dum de dum. The movie they showed us doesn't have anything to do with raiders at least, and the plot so far for me was about dealing with local problems, that's all.

The "epic" part of the intro movie has fuck-all to do with the actual story of the game. If you actually pay attention to it, it's just setting up a Fall of Rome scenario for the empire in Ashan, which then makes the entire game about the big city in the peninsula (Karthal) rebelling, and what you decide to do about that.

It's actually a pretty damn nifty idea for a low-faggotry campaign, in some respects better than past M&M games. I miss the old setting, but these guys are doing a good job of making an unappealing thing appealing.

The intro to the game is like... "they started out as raiders, but would go on to become legends."
Kinda makes me wonder what exactly it is they will do to become legends, while restricted to a smaller geographic region, and also not saving the world.

Influencing whether or not a big regional city secedes from the empire is the sort of thing that would make you a big deal in the real world, but this being Might & Magic, there's also stuff like killing cyclops and dragons, so you know, there's that.

I think it would be absurd to suspect they would make this campaign only about killing bandits and other low-magic stuff. I mean, they've got this huge bestiary of fantastic creatures to call upon. It's more about making your motivations non-epic. If they deliver on the hints of what they've got so far, I'll be satisfied.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I want less and dumber writing with the biggest dorks in the world putting the greatest hits of mythology, urban legend, science fiction, folklore and shit they made up to round out the monster manual in every dungeon like a proper M&M with no regard for ecology, consistency, narrative, or whatever. World a random distribution of biomes? Why not? Towns that do not have the slightest hint of quotidian reality? Fucking yes. That is ideal M&M writing. M&M is not about generating a different fictive world to live in for a while and nothing should have significant context outside of interaction with the player. It's a completely different narrative basis than the stereotypical modern game story/setting.

I know they won't do that because some Ubi exec wants them to build up intellectual capital in a particular fantasy world so they can put other games in it. It's cool bros we know its the suits

The worst is that not a single person in the world will buy a game just because it happens in this Ashan abomination. And this Ashan stuff just basically means inserting dark and gritty alpha male protagonists and themes from modern console shooters into a fantasy world. I piss on Ashan.

You've nailed it, in that M&M is basically a love letter to the various interests of obsessive dorks, and Ubi Soft is now trying to inject elements of Mountain Dew fratboy gamers into it, as if it was humanly possible. But thankfully it looks like these developers get this, and will do what they can to give us that within the leash that the Guillemot brothers' lapdogs have given them.

Also, Grunker is a traitor.

 

[groke]

Are the gritty console shooter alpha meatwalls in MMX the dwarves or the niggers orcs? Because the human male thus revealed is some faggot ass mage.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Are the gritty console shooter alpha meatwalls in MMX the dwarves or the niggers orcs? Because the human male thus revealed is some faggot ass mage.

I was talking more about Heroes VI, it's obvious what Ubi Soft is attempting to do, you just have to look at the ridiculous FMV.

 

[Metro]

This is like caring about Torchlight lore.

 

[Infinitron]

Also, Grunker is a traitor.

Just wait until you see his preview.

 

[Crooked Bee]

On a bit of a side note, this game has been in Steam's top 10 bestseller list since the day the early access version was released. This is pretty surprising, and pretty good I think.

I wonder if early access gives them enough money to delay the game even more in case some further polish/balancing is going to be required.

 

[J_C]

and Ubi Soft is now trying to inject elements of Mountain Dew fratboy gamers into it, as if it was humanly possible.

What the fuck? How can you make up such idiotic, retarded things? Ashan is a more or less established kinda generic fantasy world, which was given for the devs from the start. Nobody from Ubisoft is forcing them to add Mountain Dew fratboy elements to it.

Ok, this is the point when people just make up shit to prove that they are right, to find a reason to hate some part of the game.

Edit: Sorry, I was retarded, I misunderstood your post.