Indie Morgana - a cutesy-Lovecraftian pixel blobber

[Lady Error]

Yeah, dungeon design as well as itemization and combat are all critical in blobbers.

Dungeons should have various secrets and some variety and be neither too small or too large. The first dungeons in Grimoire are a good example of very well made dungeons, but so are Wizardry 1-7 or Eye of the Beholder 1 and 2.

 

[Glop_dweller]

Thanks for all your answers and for your clarification Glop_dweller and Adenocaulon.

I played Bard's Tale superficially. I bought the remake trilogy on gog: https://af.gog.com/game/the_bards_tale_trilogy?as=1649904300

I'll play it to study it well before coding the combat prototype. I'll study your answers calmly too.

There is also Thunderscape; FPP Phased based Combat. (Warts and all)

gog.com/game/thunderscape?as=1649904300



*The video doesn't show off the options, all the guy does is spam the attack button.

 

[JaumeAlcazo]

This thread is one of the few truly inspiring and genuinely enthusiastic reads for a new game I think I've encountered in a long time, even with the most recent update. The fact that you've already produced such remarkable imagery and gameplay is astonishing;

Hi there! Thank you very much for your feedback You give me strength to carry on.

I wanted to clarificate that the main artist producing the majority of assets is Mrmo Tarius and the praise on the visuals should go for him. The inventory icons, tarot cards, spinning animation, visual FX & audio FX are from other sources.

I edited the description of the video to try to clarificate it (even tough is hidden link and not "official" material/promo/official Facebook page).

I'll answer to Arthandas c+c and others more calmly later or in the future, just wanted to clarify that all possible game design flaws can be attributed solely to me and I'm fully responsible for them and that I'll do my best to improve and mitigate the problems.

Having said that, the video description goes now like this, I hope this clarifies more the credits and attribution to respective authors of the assets and I do apologize for having not done this earlier and for any error of attribution (please point it to me and I'll fix it):

- Art & general art direction: Mrmo Tarius (http://pixeljoint.com/p/7846.htm and https://twitter.com/mrmotarius).
- Game design, level design, GUI concepts & Programming: Jaume Alcazo (jaume.alcazo@gmail.com).
- Inventory icons: modified assets from opengameart.org, Caz (https://cazwolf.itch.io/) & Cyangmou (https://cyangmou.itch.io/). I may be forgetting some sources here.
- Programmed with C++, Tilengine (http://www.tilengine.org), SDL2 (https://www.libsdl.org/download-2.0.php), SDL2_mixer for audio (https://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_mixer/ for mp3 & wav music and sound FX), SDL2_ttf for managing text (https://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_ttf/), SDL2 image (https://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_image/) and Code::Blocks IDE (https://www.codeblocks.org/).
- Tarot Wall sprites source: modification made by Jaume Alcazo from this source: https://theteaguns.itch.io/flat-shaded-low-poly-swords.
- Slot animation visual FX when dropping tarot card: modified made by Jaume Alcazo from bought animation from here: https://henrysoftware.itch.io/pixel-effects
- Music in this particular video: Kim Lightyear - Dolls And Candys from Opengameart (site seems down at the moment): https://opengameart.org/content/dolls-and-candys
- I will credit Misc GUI audio fx later, hopefully.
- Tarot Cards, upscaled, detailed and modified by Jaume Alcazo from this source: https://mozz.itch.io/the-arcade-arcanum.
- Tarot Spin animation: https://finalbossblues.itch.io/pixel-tarot-deck
- Tarot Card item is made downscaling some frame of: https://finalbossblues.itch.io/pixel-tarot-deck Check out this for more details: https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26827

 

[JaumeAlcazo]

(More replies to others are being processed, I'm not fully responded to unseeingeye yet).

 

[Adenocaulon]

Be aware, a combination of dungeon crawler and point and click adventure is a good idea, they are very compatible genres.

But you would aim to catch the audience of both blobber rpg and first person graphical adventure, both audiences are currently very niche. The problem would be if the game is liked only by people who like both genres, which is a minor public, so you would try to avoid this situation. I would avoid trying to create a hardcore blobber and hardcore point and click at the same time, a moderate approach to both genera can be justified.

 

[JaumeAlcazo]

Continuing answering the feedback to everyone, I truly appreciate all of it, the good and the bad. Even tough the bad is hard to digest after all the time, energy and money already committed to maybe wrong paths (I'm looking at you Arthandas haha just joking, I respond later what I can).

This thread is one of the few truly inspiring and genuinely enthusiastic reads for a new game I think I've encountered in a long time, even with the most recent update. The fact that you've already produced such remarkable imagery and gameplay is astonishing; my two children (12 and 16), depression and work burn me out from doing much of anything at all, so your capacity to motivate yourself is truly admirable.

The influences behind the game are among my favorites and everything I see looks very nice; the music is the only thing that was a bit overwhelming for me but.. yet, it was somehow still good. I would be all about trying it when its ready.

• Thank you again unseengeye. You know it's really hard the first years of fathering, and beyond, and managing a family and all. Work and mental health is hard to balance and to keep on. The most normal and sane response of a person is just relaxing and enjoying what remains of his/her free time/sanity meter, not dealing with software architecture, obscure bugs, complicated programming languages and libraries, compile and runtime errors, design game choices, rpg variants stats and mechanics, twisted horror influences and beyond, fully rebooting a project development from C to C++ after realizing deep language architecture, engine, design and paradigm errors (modular to OOP, fixed sprites to dynamic getting sprite id's on the fly), public relations of an indie project, retouching upscaling and detailing full tarot decks, a global pandemic, the deep subconscious motives that compel someone to do all of this and so on, and so on, and so on, in a foreign language that you don't really talk or understang fluently, and doing it not only for free but paying money of your own (being not a company and backed financially by anyone), and keeping a functional family, mental health and keeping a job, so you can be happy, a normal sane person would be just exhausted after just job and parenting. My fate is a hard one, a crazy journey with little to no sense, but I feel sucked by it nevertheless.
• But I'm digressing... Sorry for venting a bit accumulated stress. I'm human, after all.
• Thank you, I'll keep working and try to do my best and land this game whatever what it takes. I really truly appreciate all of your feedback, and I hope you enjoy your family and mitigate the effects of depression to the extent of what you can.

I keep on answering, processing more replies.

 

[Arthandas]

Continuing answering the feedback to everyone, I truly appreciate all of it, the good and the bad. Even tough the bad is hard to digest after all the time, energy and money already committed to maybe wrong paths (I'm looking at you Arthandas haha just joking, I respond later what I can).

Don't blame me for honest feedback, I want the game to be good too.

 

[JaumeAlcazo]

Continuing answering the feedback to everyone, I truly appreciate all of it, the good and the bad. Even tough the bad is hard to digest after all the time, energy and money already committed to maybe wrong paths (I'm looking at you Arthandas haha just joking, I respond later what I can).

Don't blame me for honest feedback, I want the game to be good too.

Sorry, I don't manage well the criticism and my mental health & ego is fragile. I appreciate your answer and your criticism. Really I do. We must talk widely and find a solution or mitigation to the design problems. I realize that.

Answering fast, off to the doctor. I'll answer more calmly.

The exploration and level dungeon design can and must be solved easily. The all seeing map is a temporary state, just for me to solve bugs. I planned to do the usual fog of war, notice the [ square ] around the player arrow. That would be the visible/explored part. And I would go 15% Explored etc... of course. That or a triangular cone of vision.

The part of the inventory is harder the solve, really the two row iconset is influenced by Elvira 1 & 2 & Waxworks + Lands of Lore 1 + Scumm games (remember Monkey Island two arrow icons), or even the latest Thimbleweed Park.

The paperdoll screen is influenced in turn by several games, mainly Ultima 7, Serpent Isle and Lands of Lore 1. I agree with you with the inventory management and tedious clicking onscreen, it didn't seem that bad to me, but maybe I can solve with hotkeys, a la Bard's Tale for A) ttack D) efend U) se item C) ast Spell, etc...

I don't know how to manage the sorting of the items, or if the Paperdoll screen must be redone from scratch.

Check out this latest version, and share your thoughts, please.

Off I go, later!

 

[JaumeAlcazo]

Notice the "R" homage to Horrorsoft classics. I'll ilustrate later with images.

Off I go now.

 

[JaumeAlcazo]

Items are not drawn here, but realize how natural equiping the items from the 2 rows was already. I can expand the inventory to the Stats area maybe? Just when seeing the paperdoll?

Can you share some image or game, or reference. Are you thinking SkyUI of Skyrim?

Don't mind the bright bars at the bottom right. And remember the bottom left was occupied by item description.

What do you think on this as well?

Hunting Knive - Level 3 Weapon and not letting equip if Level doesn't match.

or

Rose - Quest Item.

Gear - Puzzle Item.

Blood Rune - Sudoku Item.

etc...

 

[karnak]

Continuing answering the feedback to everyone, I truly appreciate all of it, the good and the bad. Even tough the bad is hard to digest after all the time, energy and money already committed to maybe wrong paths (I'm looking at you Arthandas haha just joking, I respond later what I can).

Don't blame me for honest feedback, I want the game to be good too.

Sorry, I don't manage well the criticism and my mental health & ego is fragile. I appreciate your answer and your criticism. Really I do. We must talk widely and find a solution or mitigation to the design problems. I realize that.

Answering fast, off to the doctor. I'll answer more calmly.

The exploration and level dungeon design can and must be solved easily. The all seeing map is a temporary state, just for me to solve bugs. I planned to do the usual fog of war, notice the [ square ] around the player arrow. That would be the visible/explored part. And I would go 15% Explored etc... of course. That or a triangular cone of vision.

The part of the inventory is harder the solve, really the two row iconset is influenced by Elvira 1 & 2 & Waxworks + Lands of Lore 1 + Scumm games (remember Monkey Island two arrow icons), or even the latest Thimbleweed Park.

The paperdoll screen is influenced in turn by several games, mainly Ultima 7, Serpent Isle and Lands of Lore 1. I agree with you with the inventory management and tedious clicking onscreen, it didn't seem that bad to me, but maybe I can solve with hotkeys, a la Bard's Tale for A) ttack D) efend U) se item C) ast Spell, etc...

I don't know how to manage the sorting of the items, or if the Paperdoll screen must be redone from scratch.

Check out this latest version, and share your thoughts, please.

Off I go, later!

Personally I think it'd be a nice touch if you could include some sort of visual change for the paperdoll: i.e. the character really wearing the clothes and armor you put on the slots. But I also understand this would mostly be a cosmetic thing and it'd probably take a lot of time to draw.

 

[Arthandas]

I have no problems with the paperdoll. It looks pretty standard (and the undress gag is amusing), the art is great so bonus points if it changes depending on the equipment.

My main issue is the items tab in the bottom center. It kinda works in adventure games because yon never have to juggle around more than 10-20 items and you don't have to sort them into weapons/armors/consumables/etc. Here it looks like a nightmare where you have to scroll through 100 unsorted things. I always thought a grid with tabs is the most elegant solution for games with wide range of equipment, something like here, in Original Sin 1/2:

Spoiler

 

[unseeingeye]

• Thank you again unseengeye...

Unfortunately I am not as capable as others are to offer advice or constructive criticism on the actual mechanics of the game, I only wanted to post to add to the discussion and let you know that others are watching with interest. The first Lands of Lore, the two Elvira games, and Waxworks are games I regard highly and have not found very many comparable games in their respective categories or which blend related genres similarly. So when I began to read this thread I was very happy to see that something along those lines is being made.

Individual depression and the current wider state of affairs psychologically, physically, culturally make maintaining enthusiasm for anything rather difficult at the moment for people sensitive to a broader perspective and I imagine can at times might feel ultimately worthless, perhaps overwhelming. My creative tendencies haven't really been exercised in almost two decades (I'm 36 years old) and I fell into heroin addiction in the years prior to becoming an adult so I've spent the entirety of my adult life struggling with addiction, though I have over 7 years now clean, it will be 8 years in February. The reason I mention these things is because I am slowly coming out of what I hope was a "dark night of the soul" and have begun to appreciate the inherent purposefulness in any healthy creative output, and I am sincere in acknowledging my admiration for people such as yourself who despite a career and family and mental health troubles manage to create tangible, effective art that contributes meaningfully to humanity, on any level. I lack the ambition and self-confidence to even attempt to begin to follow through on the many creative ideas I've had throughout my life, and a profound misanthropic disposition doesn't exactly motivate me, but it is the contributions of artists, programmers, authors and so on who make the utter indifference of nature and confounding cruelty of the human condition tolerable, and although rarely, even transcendent.

So here I only wanted to let you know that your work is appreciated, even if so far only superficially and dispassionately as you are still in the developmental process. Ultimately you can never please everybody and as mentioned above, the style of game you're creating is already within a niche category, but the willingness you express to consider alternate opinions and ideas is awesome and I hope you have great success however it turns out.

The inventory management is certainly a very important aspect to establish to where what would otherwise feel tedious can be made to feel engaging; have you considered perhaps something along the lines of Anvil of Dawn, or maybe the Ravenloft and Menzoberranzen games? I actually liked most aspects of both styles but am probably an exception in this regard, with the latter games especially requiring repetitive clicking in and out of menu screens and made ranged combat exceedingly frustrating. As for the paperdoll screen, I like it how it is already but would echo the previous comment about including a visual change representing the equipped armor or clothing, if that is not out of the realm of possibility considering your already limited time and resources.

 

[Lady Error]

One random idea:

Right now the face of Morgana on the left is sort of confusing or unnecessary since the party members are displayed on the right. I don't know anything about the lore of the game (who is Morgana?), but it would be nice to have her change facial expressions depending on what the party does or experiences.

For example: sad face, smiling face, sick face, enraged face, etc.

 

[Contagium]

Just when I think blobbers are dead and buried, a glimmer of hope comes along . Optimistically following this.

 

[JaumeAlcazo]

Hello everyone and happy belated new year 2022. I'm currently confined in my room, I got covid past sunday but I'm ok. The first night was hard, despite having three vax shots (different companies) I had fever and was almost allucinating when I closed my eyes. Now I'm feeling almost normal but still closed in my room, sleeping in a mattress while fiancee and 2 daughters live outside. My mother and fiancee catched it too, but they are ok now.

Sorry for the lack of feedback and answers. Here is some progress:

2 Complete Tarot Walls, dissolving them, companion slot swapping, blood fountain potion filling:



Coat of Arms and Archdukal Banner. Please note how Alaphaeis and Charome is specially written in-game. I'm planning on merging my novel with the videogame. Happen in the same world but follow different events and protagonists, despite being related and the plot joining at the end of the game and at the end of the novel:



Thanks to everyone for the answers and encouragement. I will try to answer the most interesting points now:

Lady Error:

One random idea:

Right now the face of Morgana on the left is sort of confusing or unnecessary since the party members are displayed on the right. I don't know anything about the lore of the game (who is Morgana?), but it would be nice to have her change facial expressions depending on what the party does or experiences.

For example: sad face, smiling face, sick face, enraged face, etc.

Morgana will be slightly customised at a character creation (more like: modification) menu at the beginning of the game. Her story and lore will be unfolded during the game. I agree with the changing facial expressions, I already thought of that. My main influence here was Doom guy hurting evolving face. We will do this in the future, hopefully.

She is the most important member of the party so she's displayed left, I will not change in the foreseable future, now I'm way committed in this current design/layout.

About Grimoire. I will play it. I bought it on GOG, I will play it to get ideas/inspiration.

Party and turn-based, good art style and music. Will it have NPC interactions as well?

Yes. A few. Already working on that but currently can't show.

unseeingeye

I'm sorry about your struggles and I can relate to them. Medication is working fine for me now, psychologist and psychiatrist are of great help, specially during this pandemic turmoil. If you want to talk privately about that and my suggestions please write me to jaume.alcazo@gmail.com

I hope you find force to start some creative project that fits you, it would help you greatly, I feel. If is not creating games can be writing, painting, playing games, streaming games, creating youtube videos, reading, starting a blog, etc...

Thank you very much for appreciating the work

About inventory "Anvil of Dawn, or maybe the Ravenloft and Menzoberranzen games?" I will study it. I beated Anvil of Dawn long time ago (I think I was teenager) and i'm very fond of it. I will replay it to get ideas eventually. I'm not so sure about Menzo, but will take a look. Ah, by the way Matt Chat covered Menzo:

As for the paperdoll screen, I like it how it is already but would echo the previous comment about including a visual change representing the equipped armor or clothing, if that is not out of the realm of possibility considering your already limited time and resources.

That would be ideal, like in Serpent Isle (currently replaying it), but it's too much work for just me and Mrmo. Maybe after a Kickstarter success I could consider this, but I find it too challenging for me right now.

(Screenshot taken by me with Exult, Silver Seed + SI Fixes mod):

Arthandas

My main issue is the items tab in the bottom center. It kinda works in adventure games because yon never have to juggle around more than 10-20 items and you don't have to sort them into weapons/armors/consumables/etc. Here it looks like a nightmare where you have to scroll through 100 unsorted things. I always thought a grid with tabs is the most elegant solution for games with wide range of equipment, something like here, in Original Sin 1/2:

I understand your point. But the two row inventory is a nod to Elvira 1+2 & Waxworks specially and can't let it go. It's too ingrained in my brain, soul (and the code). BUT YOUR POINT IS VERY IMPORTANT, so I came up with some possible solutions: Stacking items of the same type (pretty standard in all rpg, you know) and Serpent Isle containers. Think bags, specially, for organizing your material. So in this way I would be referencing another one of my teenage crushes, Serpent Isle. So you could put for instance all your collected Tarot Cards in one bag and all the potions into another. BUT GRIDDING THE BAGS, not untidied like Serpent Isle, but an invisible grid inside the bags/tiny chests/containers. What do you think about this solution?

karnak

Personally I think it'd be a nice touch if you could include some sort of visual change for the paperdoll: i.e. the character really wearing the clothes and armor you put on the slots. But I also understand this would mostly be a cosmetic thing and it'd probably take a lot of time to draw.

Too much effort for just me/us Already addressed it answering to unseeingeye. It would be ideal, but it scares me. I don't know.

Adenocaulon

Be aware, a combination of dungeon crawler and point and click adventure is a good idea, they are very compatible genres.

But you would aim to catch the audience of both blobber rpg and first person graphical adventure, both audiences are currently very niche. The problem would be if the game is liked only by people who like both genres, which is a minor public, so you would try to avoid this situation. I would avoid trying to create a hardcore blobber and hardcore point and click at the same time, a moderate approach to both genera can be justified.

Thank you Adenocaulon I'll thake this in account.

Glop_dweller

I'll take a look into that combat system. But right now I think on doing a prototype of combat based on Monster Sanctuary. I played it with my daughter and felt a cool combat system for me even it's "Pokemonish":



What do you think (all of you) on this combat system? Did you played it/liked it? I would never came accross this unless played with my daughter that likes Pokemon and currently there's no PC Pokemon game. I don't like Pokemons. I was too old when they came out and always found them childish and silly, but the combat system of Monster Sanctuary felt allright to inspire on it for Morgana, instead of Bard's Tale. I don't know.

Finish

Well my head is a bit cloudy now. If I didn't answer something or there's ANYTHING you want to point/ask/critisize please be welcome. I can use very well the feedback

Stay safe, stay healthy and have a good time.

Bonus, some paperdoll backgrounds done by Mrmo long time ago (Ultima 7 style, not Serpent Isle):

Here's some progress on the upscaling Tarot Cards as well: https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26827

Best regards

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Oh, I'm liking the direction of this. Lovely paper dolls. I mean, that's some nice little fun details though I often wonder how many tentacles the cthuloid could have in total. (Can it be right handed? Left handed? Third handed? 4th etc... tentacle of the day choice). (I'm thinking aloud on tentacled humanoids not game mechanics. Maybe one day cthuloid wears a sock on one and a glove on another but changes it up on sundays, wednesdays, fridays and every 3rd new moon)....

I'm going to redigest this entire thread.
Cheers.

 

[Berengar]

Duuuude this looks sick!!! First time I've heard of this. Will be watching

 

[Contagium]

At a cursory glance I thought this reminded me of "Aeon of Sands" which was pretty disappointing overall, but I'm hoping this is better. As everyone else has noted...looks really promising

 

[Thac0]

I'll take a look into that combat system. But right now I think on doing a prototype of combat based on Monster Sanctuary. I played it with my daughter and felt a cool combat system for me even it's "Pokemonish":

What do you think (all of you) on this combat system? Did you played it/liked it? I would never came accross this unless played with my daughter that likes Pokemon and currently there's no PC Pokemon game. I don't like Pokemons. I was too old when they came out and always found them childish and silly, but the combat system of Monster Sanctuary felt allright to inspire on it for Morgana, instead of Bard's Tale. I don't know.

Yeah I played it. The combat does not have much in common with Pokemon at all actually. Pokemon is very much about oneshots with x2/x4 damage from elemental weaknesses, and initiative is extremely valuable.
Monster Sanctuary is more like Shin Megami Tensei without press turns, your mons all take a turn, then all enemies take a turn, buffs and elemental weaknesses matter quite a bit.
Fairly standard for a western developer taking a crack at JRPG combat. They always sprinkle a lot of extras into it.

One thing that annoyed me about monster sanctuary was that the combat took very long to become somewhat difficult, and for how many easy fights you have to fight it is too slow. Monster collectors are games where you fight a lot of fights, and with low challenge and long time to kill the game can feel exhausting at times. There is definitly a danger to replicate that, as blobbers tend to have a lot of combat and long play hours aswell.

One thing to keep in mind is that this sort of combat system, where all your doods go in order, then all enemies, without a grid or movement, is only ever done in monster collectors. And that is for a very simple reason. If you can guarantee to have the first 3-4 turns in the exact same order each fight, you can just do exactly the same thing each combat. That gets boring fast.
Monster collectors get around this with elemental weaknesses. Much of the battle is decided before you even begin combat, just by what elements you bring to the table, and if you get surprised your first turns consist of shuffling around monsters to get your elemental advantages in order.
As such the function of the initiative system throwing chaos into the fight and stopping you from playing repititive strategies as soon as you found the best opener is replaced by your party of monsters you bring to each fight being slightly different in a monster collector.

Hope some of this is usefull, you got a cool artstyle there.

 

[whydoibother]

The big static UI with a small action screen in the middle made sense before, it was too expensive to animate everything and have dynamic UI and a big screen picture. But now, its just for nostalgia.
I wish these games would have the action on the big screen, and you could bring up controls/map/inventory/etc with button inputs. You know, like a normal modern game. The only reason this isn't done is for its own sake. Just to say its old-school. More like old-fashioned.

Spoiler

More like old-shit. Stop doing that. Modern blobbers should be modern.

 

[KateMicucci]

Looks great. I would play this and I'm picky about games.

 

[luj1]

this released?

 

[ItsChon]

Not a fan of blobbers but the game certainly looks gorgeous and it's always great to see a dev interacting with people who are interested in their game. Wish you all the best!

 

[Tyranicon]

This looks gorgeous. Kudos on nailing a good aesthetic.