Morrowind was massive decline and should be considered as such

[Sweeper]

iirc magnitude of more than 100 isn't possible in vanilla so you're only able to do that because of mods lol

Yup you're right. I wasn't even gonna install the code patch but I needed it for MGE XE.
Not that there aren't many different ways to break the game and make enemies a non-factor even in vanilla.

 

[Funposter]

Personally I never found Morrowind truly playable without 50-80gb worth of mods.

There's no need for hyperbole. 4gb of high-res textures alone is enough to completely break the game and cause regular crashes due to the 3.3gb memory limit. Even with my insanely large Morrowind mod folder, I'm only at 45gb and that's with several duplicates/updates for texture mods, several editions of Tamriel Rebuilt and about 11gb worth of unpacked BSA archives. 50-80gb of mods is definitely true of Skyrim SE or Fallout, but a pretty comprehensive overhaul of Morrowind's gameplay and graphics would really only take up about 5-10gb.

Yup you're right. I wasn't even gonna install the code patch but I needed it for MGE XE.
Not that there aren't many different ways to break the game and make enemies a non-factor even in vanilla.

Nord, Orc or Breton with Atronach birthsign halfway breaks the game simply on the character creation screen. Nobody ever claimed that Morrowind was difficult or well-balanced.

 

[Vormulak]

If you love Oblivion's "challenging" health sponge enemies, you should try Morrowind's expansions.

Didn't say challenging, I said they remain a threat, which they do.

Health sponge enemies don't exist in Morrowind, but I'd rather have health sponges than having enemies that don't even register as anything.... cause they're dead as soon as I see them.

>health sponge enemies don't exist in Morrowind
top fucking kek

 

[Funposter]

If you love Oblivion's "challenging" health sponge enemies, you should try Morrowind's expansions.

Didn't say challenging, I said they remain a threat, which they do.

Health sponge enemies don't exist in Morrowind, but I'd rather have health sponges than having enemies that don't even register as anything.... cause they're dead as soon as I see them.

>health sponge enemies don't exist in Morrowind
top fucking kek

To be fair, that's mostly true of the vanilla game. Barring Vivec and Divayth Fyr, who you don't have to fight, enemies in the vanilla game top out at around 400HP and those are all Ash Vampires or a couple of Telvanni wizards. The toughest Warrior NPCs don't even break 300HP and only a few named Daedra are in the 300-350HP range. This is in a game where Daedric Claymores/Battleaxes/Warhammers are doing damage in the 70-90 range without any enchantments. The expansions are where this balance goes completely out the window, with NPCs regularly having 500+ HP and boss enemies like The Imperfect, Almalexia and Hircine's Aspects ranging from 1,850 to 3,000 HP.

 

[Vormulak]

If you love Oblivion's "challenging" health sponge enemies, you should try Morrowind's expansions.

Didn't say challenging, I said they remain a threat, which they do.

Health sponge enemies don't exist in Morrowind, but I'd rather have health sponges than having enemies that don't even register as anything.... cause they're dead as soon as I see them.

>health sponge enemies don't exist in Morrowind
top fucking kek

To be fair, that's mostly true of the vanilla game. Barring Vivec and Divayth Fyr, who you don't have to fight, enemies in the vanilla game top out at around 400HP and those are all Ash Vampires or a couple of Telvanni wizards. The toughest Warrior NPCs don't even break 300HP and only a few named Daedra are in the 300-350HP range. This is in a game where Daedric Claymores/Battleaxes/Warhammers are doing damage in the 70-90 range without any enchantments. The expansions are where this balance goes completely out the window, with NPCs regularly having 500+ HP and boss enemies like The Imperfect, Almalexia and Hircine's Aspects ranging from 1,850 to 3,000 HP.

Yeah the vanilla game is more or less entirely devoid of damage sponges as far as I can recall, you can kill ascended sleepers in 2 hits with end game weaponry, meanwhile it takes like 20+ hits to kill werewolves.

 

[Gerrard]

. There are games that are far more overrated than Morrowind or TW3.

Which ones?

Gothic 2

 

[Vormulak]

. There are games that are far more overrated than Morrowind or TW3.

Which ones?

Gothic 2

Morrowind gets a lot more attention but gothic 2 fans are more obnoxious.

 

[Moaning_Clock]

In daggerfall 2 hours OST -> 50 minutes in Morrowind

Do you have ears? The soundtrack of Daggerfall is bearable while the Morrowind OST is fucking awesome. Don't get me wrong, I play Daggerfall at the moment but just comparing numbers is just retarded.
Daggerfall is a cool game in between (if you only do side-quests, I'm not playing the main quest yet) but Morrowind is a fucking exploration journey. Walking around in Daggerfall just seems pointless tbh.

 

[Hag]

Yeah the vanilla game is more or less entirely devoid of damage sponges as far as I can recall, you can kill ascended sleepers in 2 hits with end game weaponry, meanwhile it takes like 20+ hits to kill werewolves.

I remember the difficulty slider being good to make fighting dangerous again above level 20. I actually had to set it back to normal playing Bloodmoon as it made the boar-riders cunts a one-hit-you're-dead nuisance.

But there is no gameplay fix for stupidly powerful enchantments. On the other hand, I find kind of nice to be able to do it. The way the game just gives away possibilities to the player is downright a great thing. It's a game. It's fun the first time you discover it. Could have used a tad more balance, sure. Still the opposite of holding the hands of players through the whole game like we're morons.

 

[freygeist87]

Gothic 2

Gothic 2 overrated? Nah the story was cooler in the first one and the bosses were lame, but other than that the second is just an awesome timeless game. The way you could immerse yourself in the game world of Gothic 2 wasn't topped by any other RPG. Nothing comes close to this day. With modding its even greater.

 

[Funposter]

Gothic 2

Gothic 2 overrated? Nah the story was cooler in the first one and the bosses were lame, but other than that the second is just an awesome timeless game. The way you could immerse yourself in the game world of Gothic 2 wasn't topped by any other RPG. Nothing comes close to this day. With modding its even greater.

"Gothic 2 isn't overrated, it's just [superlative vomit]."

 

[Savecummer]

all these gaymes are retarded running sims you people are moronic larper scum kys

 

[thesheeep]

Walking around in Daggerfall just seems pointless tbh.

That's one of Daggerfall's biggest problems, really.

Once you have reached a high level, and that can happen relatively soon IMO, it just feels pointless to play more.
There's no goal to work towards (other than the main story, but that's really not much different from the rest of the game).
Morrowind is small enough to have exploration as its own goal even if you don't care about the story - in Daggerfall, exploration is not a goal, or at least not an achievable one.

The procgen, while years ahead of its time, still shows its repetitions after a bunch of dungeons and then it becomes samey.
Exploration within dungeons is pointless as the procgen doesn't place anything inside the dungeons that would be worthwhile to find (though to be fair, Daggerfall Unity + mods might very well fix this).

 

[PrettyDeadman]

morrowind is incline, but shadow tower abyss is a much steper incline.

 

[Vormulak]

Yeah the vanilla game is more or less entirely devoid of damage sponges as far as I can recall, you can kill ascended sleepers in 2 hits with end game weaponry, meanwhile it takes like 20+ hits to kill werewolves.

I remember the difficulty slider being good to make fighting dangerous again above level 20. I actually had to set it back to normal playing Bloodmoon as it made the boar-riders cunts a one-hit-you're-dead nuisance.

But there is no gameplay fix for stupidly powerful enchantments. On the other hand, I find kind of nice to be able to do it. The way the game just gives away possibilities to the player is downright a great thing. It's a game. It's fun the first time you discover it. Could have used a tad more balance, sure. Still the opposite of holding the hands of players through the whole game like we're morons.

Balance is a cancer upon the industry, the werewolves should have just been easier, simple as.

 

[Jaedar]

Yeah the vanilla game is more or less entirely devoid of damage sponges as far as I can recall, you can kill ascended sleepers in 2 hits with end game weaponry, meanwhile it takes like 20+ hits to kill werewolves.

I think the expansions are kinda bad in general. I guess bloodmoon is ok because at least solstheim feels like a place, but mournhold and its infinite sewers feels terrible.

 

[Funposter]

Yeah the vanilla game is more or less entirely devoid of damage sponges as far as I can recall, you can kill ascended sleepers in 2 hits with end game weaponry, meanwhile it takes like 20+ hits to kill werewolves.

I think the expansions are kinda bad in general. I guess bloodmoon is ok because at least solstheim feels like a place, but mournhold and its infinite sewers feels terrible.

I don't really think there's anybody out there who thinks the expansions are fantastic. Tribunal's only real redeeming feature is the expansion/proper ending of the vanilla game's story, but you need to fight through a lot of bloated encounters and endless sewers to get there. Bloodmoon is a little better but I think its novelty has worn off as a setting since the release of Skyrim. The allure is Werewolves and snow, and those thing already exist in a larger capacity in a more modern game, even if it's a worse game. Neither are particularly inspired from a gameplay or design perspective and Bloodmoon was also a notable shift towards the degenerate design of Oblivion and Skyrim.

 

[Vormulak]

the werewolves should have just been easier

This sound like weredogs, haha.

That would have been an improvement tbh.

 

[Xi]

I think there's a good balance between some generation and some hand crafted experiences. For a hiking simulator, they can easily get away with it.

 

[Ryan muller]

Quality > quantity.

So removing all the points above is quality. Nice, keep the bar low, don't complain about streamlining then.

Daggerfall had literal level scalling for loot and enemies making the procedural generation for dungeons even worst as you wouldnt really find anything of value if you werent strong enough for that (in which you probably already have strong items you bought in stores anyways) those elements were heavily criticized in later games but people seem to ignore it in daggerfall for some reason.

Yes, CnC in DF was way stronger than morrowind, the political aspects of hammerfell and high rock were incredibly intriguing, i love the orcs questline and the king of worms and it really is the better game to completely roleplay a character
(as its not only the one that most react organically to how you play but also has very nice tools and the best character creation system)

But it is a very damn flawed title.

Dungeons were far from good with an automap that suck balls and its incredibly convoluted (while games like Ultima underworld got it right years prior to this) and they just reused the same damn assets over and over again with such a bad system for procedural generation that you could find shittons of rooms in places that dont even make sense (i literally managed to find a dungeon with 10-11 doors in places that you couldnt open in my last playtrought) and its so damn big and repetitive that nowadays i have no patience to backtrack my way, instead i just use console commands to go back.

Quest design is also damn repetitive and in general, exploration in morrowind feels much more rewarding as the loot system was not only the better one, but there was no level scalling to enemies nor loot.

DF is still one of the better tes games, but its insane to pretend MW is somehow "dogshit" compared to it.

 

[quixotic]

no level scalling to enemies nor loot.

Morrowind actually does have slight level scaling, it’s just so minuscule that you wouldn’t really notice without looking under the hood. It really should be documented more thoroughly because everybody just assumes it doesn’t.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Leveled_Lists
UESP doesn’t even have an article on Leveled Creatures in MW, I have to link to the fucking Elder Scrolls fandom wiki to prove myself.
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Leveled_Creatures_(Morrowind)
I think Morrowind has the best level scaling in the series, since you don’t notice it.

 

[Ryan muller]

no level scalling to enemies nor loot.

Morrowind actually does have slight level scaling, it’s just so minuscule that you wouldn’t really notice without looking under the hood. It really should be documented more thoroughly because everybody just assumes it doesn’t.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Leveled_Lists
UESP doesn’t even have an article on Leveled Creatures in MW, I have to link to the fucking Elder Scrolls fandom wiki to prove myself.
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Leveled_Creatures_(Morrowind)
I think Morrowind has the best level scaling in the series, since you don’t notice it.

As said, its so damn insignificant that it really doesnt make a difference.

You will feel like your exploration has value because there are enemies stronger than you in the early game and going throught high level areas early on would result in finding extremely useful equipment that were game changing, as well as returning to low level areas will prove you that you made progress and became strong asf as most enemies that previously were a challenge will get annihilated in one hit.


In DF you could go to a dungeon full of rats early on and then comeback much later just to find out that now that same location is full of vampires.

Its not nearly as broken as oblivion in how level scalling is done, but its enough to make exploration significantly worse than it should.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

Morrowind actually does have slight level scaling, it’s just so minuscule that you wouldn’t really notice

As said, its so damn insignificant that it really doesnt make a difference.

Morrowind's level scaling is what filled the world with cliff racers past a certain level.

It's tempting and easy to lock the game's progression at lv1 or 2 in bethesda games in order to prevent the worst aspects of level-scaling, but even setting aside the combat balance they have a nasty habit of locking certain quests behind an arbitrary level.

Even New Vegas works best while you stick to lv21 and under with the jsawyer mod and logan's run trait so you don't see plasma-carrying cannibals.

 

[Ryan muller]

Morrowind actually does have slight level scaling, it’s just so minuscule that you wouldn’t really notice

As said, its so damn insignificant that it really doesnt make a difference.

Morrowind's level scaling is what filled the world with cliff racers past a certain level.

It's tempting and easy to lock the game's progression at lv1 or 2 in bethesda games in order to prevent the worst aspects of level-scaling, but even setting aside the combat balance they have a nasty habit of locking certain quests behind an arbitrary level.

Even New Vegas works best while you stick to lv21 and under with the jsawyer mod and logan's run trait so you don't see plasma-carrying cannibals.

The world is filled with cliff racers from the start.

I literally ran at 10 encounters in sequence last time i started a new character.

It really doesnt matter as far as progression goes because you still will annihilate them in the late game, which dont really happen with some of the enemies in other games.

In fact, morrowind is one of the only games in the series in which you can very easily powerlevel without feeling that the game became harder because of it.

Hell, you can even break the game with Powerlevel in some ways.

 

[Kainan]

Yeah the vanilla game is more or less entirely devoid of damage sponges as far as I can recall, you can kill ascended sleepers in 2 hits with end game weaponry, meanwhile it takes like 20+ hits to kill werewolves.

I think the expansions are kinda bad in general. I guess bloodmoon is ok because at least solstheim feels like a place, but mournhold and its infinite sewers feels terrible.

I don't really think there's anybody out there who thinks the expansions are fantastic. Tribunal's only real redeeming feature is the expansion/proper ending of the vanilla game's story, but you need to fight through a lot of bloated encounters and endless sewers to get there. Bloodmoon is a little better but I think its novelty has worn off as a setting since the release of Skyrim. The allure is Werewolves and snow, and those thing already exist in a larger capacity in a more modern game, even if it's a worse game. Neither are particularly inspired from a gameplay or design perspective and Bloodmoon was also a notable shift towards the degenerate design of Oblivion and Skyrim.

Is it better to play Morrowind the first time without the expansions?