Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir - Under appreciated RPG

[Jaesun]

If NWN2 was turn-based, the modding community for that would be INSANE. And that awesome World Map addition would just be an added plus. The Codex would be too damn busy making and reviewing mods for it. We wouldn't give a shit about anything else. :D

 

[ArchAngel]

Yea agree on the combat not to mention I can never get used to the camera in nwn2 no matter how much I monkey around with it.

Yes camera fiddling was always so irritating. Each time I started a new playthrough of SoZ I would quit after few hours and go back to Bg1.

I also tried that BG1 in nwn2 engine but after 1 hour I said what is the point and went back to bg1ee.

 

[Immortal]

NWN2 modding never took off because height maps are harder to deal with then tile based maps and Obsidian kinda broke scripting reliability with some ghost in the wires issues. It took WAY more testing of modules to know that they were solid scripting wise.. and there were certain things people just couldn't do because it wasn't guranteed to work consistently for every mod.

Like OnHeartBeat events were only good for certain things and otherwise would cause huge issues.

Other then that, NWN2 was superior in every way to NWN1.. The way objects are handled and baked.. The functions available to you, the flexibility and .hak / .2da overriding / management.

Obsidian did a good job. I am really disappointed it didn't take off as much as something like Skyrim. Could have been amazing.

 

[eremita]

NWN2 modding never took off because height maps are harder to deal with then tile based maps and Obsidian kinda broke scripting reliability with some ghost in the wires issues. It took WAY more testing of modules to know that they were solid scripting wise.. and there were certain things people just couldn't do because it wasn't guranteed to work consistently for every mod.

Like OnHeartBeat events were only good for certain things and otherwise would cause huge issues.

Other then that, NWN2 was superior in every way to NWN1.. The way objects are handled and baked.. The functions available to you, the flexibility and .hak / .2da overriding / management.

Obsidian did a good job. I am really disappointed it didn't take off as much as something like Skyrim. Could have been amazing.

M'kay, are you sure you're in the right thread?

 

[Immortal]

M'kay, are you sure you're in the right thread?

No.

 

[Dorateen]

Before the month passes, we should remember this November marks the 10 year anniversary of the Storm of Zehir expansion. The importance of this release was not just about the structure of the campaign, a focus on exploration rather than a personal story. While the two overland maps were certainly brilliant in concept, there were a number of other features to appreciate.

The first was the decision to bring back full party creation, something never officially seen in the Neverwinter Nights series. And the first time in a Dungeon & Dragons computer role-playing game since 2003's Temple of Elemental Evil. This didn't magically happen. A new Party Editor interface was designed, allowing the player to build multiple characters or import characters saved on their local vault. The SoZ adventure effortlessly integrated this approach by accessing the editor through the manifest conversation on the starting ship. It opened the path to enable module builders to likewise utilize this function.

Then there was the innovative party chat style conversation, unique to this expansion. Now all the player's party members could participate in dialogues, with options available to different races, classes, and characters of various skill levels. Instead of a Main Protagonist being warped to the location of an NPC and always fronting a verbal encounter, this method allowed for a group dynamic that felt more like a party contributing to discussion.

I think one of the mechanics often overlooked is that Storm of Zehir also brought back a bleeding mechanic. Finally, finally, player characters did not automatically "pop up" after combat, but remained incapacitated and losing hit points until healed. This in turn might lead to a greater chance of facing the prospects of an untimely death.

There's is no question Storm of Zehir played like no other entry to Neverwinter Nights franchise, which is why it enraged the bioware and core obsidian fanbase. But the systems introduced were most welcome and valued by module authors who chose to take advantage of these new tools. The expansion remains an ambitious and courageous project embarked on by Evans and Chapman.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

But Volourn said it was sozzy.

 

[ArchAngel]

Yes! Lets remember the best official NWN game/expansion!

Dorateen You also forgot to mention that the game had limited resting and none of that 5s rest anywhere shit.

 

[zapotec]

Beamdog doesn't have the license to "enhance" them right?

 

[ArchAngel]

Beamdog doesn't have the license to "enhance" them right?

Not yet...

But NWN2 didn't have any bigger overhaul mods that Beamdog can "steal" and sell as their own. They would actually have to "enhance" it themselves.

 

[Lilura]

Dorateen You also forgot to mention that the game had limited resting and none of that 5s rest anywhere shit.

But the dungeons were so small and pathetic that you didn't need to rest.

Other SoZ modules: Holiday and Legacy.

 

[Darth Roxor]

soz was very gud

 

[Lilura]

I think one of the mechanics often overlooked is that Storm of Zehir also brought back a bleeding mechanic. Finally, finally, player characters did not automatically "pop up" after combat, but remained incapacitated and losing hit points until healed. This in turn might lead to a greater chance of facing the prospects of an untimely death.

This is still 3.x newb-shit, though, because healing kits are so plentiful and effective. When your HPs reach 0, you should be dead and need to be raised/resurrected. Or chunked off the portrait bar and permanently dead, if you take enough damage - like in BG. Bleeding to death is retarded when someone just got decapitated.

 

[Dorateen]

I think one of the mechanics often overlooked is that Storm of Zehir also brought back a bleeding mechanic. Finally, finally, player characters did not automatically "pop up" after combat, but remained incapacitated and losing hit points until healed. This in turn might lead to a greater chance of facing the prospects of an untimely death.

When your HPs reach 0, you should be dead and need to be raised/resurrected. Or chunked off the portrait bar and permanently dead, if you take enough damage - like in the Infinity Engine games. Bleeding to death is retarded when someone just got decapitated.

But the "hovering at death's door" system is a sanctioned part of Dungeons & Dragons, implemented in the Gold Box games as well as Temple of Elemental Evil. You lose negative hit points until reaching -10, when death occurs, unless being patched up or healed. Beheading is an instant kill, of course, as is taking damage that does more than 10 points below 0.

 

[Lilura]

But the "hovering at death's door" system is a sanctioned part of Dungeon & Dragons, implemented in the Gold Box games as well as Temple of Elemental Evil. You lose negative hit points until reaching -10, when death occurs, unless being patched up or healed. Beheading is an instant kill, of course, as is taking damage that does more than 10 points below 0.

I acknowledge that it's sanctioned, but I just never liked it. I much prefer total death systems. In SoZ, you really only care if your healer dies (because he/she has the spells/skills to bring everyone back to 100%, after you basically lost the battle/got your ass kicked).

Also, "a hero" that is on the ground, bleeding out and calling out for a medic, should get mercilessly piled on by the orcs or whatever, not ignored.

 

[Fairfax]

But the "hovering at death's door" system is a sanctioned part of Dungeons & Dragons, implemented in the Gold Box games as well as Temple of Elemental Evil.

The Gold Box games didn't "sanction" anything. In AD&D, 0hp means death. Video game adaptations don't overrule the actual ruleset.

 

[Dorateen]

But the "hovering at death's door" system is a sanctioned part of Dungeons & Dragons, implemented in the Gold Box games as well as Temple of Elemental Evil.

The Gold Box games didn't "sanction" anything. In AD&D, 0hp means death. Video game adaptations don't overrule the actual ruleset.

I think you must be trolling at this point. It's in the hardbound rule books written by Gygax. You do know that AD&D often used rules variants, between the Dungeon Master's Guide, player's hand book, Unearthed Arcana and through various articles inserted in Dragon magazine.

 

[zapotec]

Death door in AD&D was nasty, it gave you the following penalties:

1. When recovered the character is stuck at 1HP and can only talk and walk, unless healed by the HEAL spell or resting for a full day.
   
2. All memorized spells are lost

 

[Fairfax]

But the "hovering at death's door" system is a sanctioned part of Dungeons & Dragons, implemented in the Gold Box games as well as Temple of Elemental Evil.

The Gold Box games didn't "sanction" anything. In AD&D, 0hp means death. Video game adaptations don't overrule the actual ruleset.

I think you must be trolling at this point. It's in the hardbound rule books written by Gygax. You do know that AD&D often used rules variants, between the Dungeon Master's Guide, player's hand book, Unearthed Arcana and through various articles inserted in Dragon magazine.

Yes, rulebooks can offer optional rules and "sanction" something, not video game adaptations. Still, the original rule is 0hp=death, and 2E made it even harsher with massive damage saves. One can always disregard or change any rule, of course. Gygax himself regretted some of them, especially weapon speed factors.

 

[Dorateen]

But the "hovering at death's door" system is a sanctioned part of Dungeons & Dragons, implemented in the Gold Box games as well as Temple of Elemental Evil.

The Gold Box games didn't "sanction" anything. In AD&D, 0hp means death. Video game adaptations don't overrule the actual ruleset.

I think you must be trolling at this point. It's in the hardbound rule books written by Gygax. You do know that AD&D often used rules variants, between the Dungeon Master's Guide, player's hand book, Unearthed Arcana and through various articles inserted in Dragon magazine.

Yes, rulebooks can offer optional rules and "sanction" something, not video game adaptations. Still, the original rule is 0hp=death, and 2E made it even harsher with massive damage saves. One can always disregard or change any rule, of course. Gygax himself regretted some of them, especially weapon speed factors.

This appeared as an official rule in the next major release of the game, Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. As described in its Dungeon Masters Guide, a character brought to exactly 0 hit points wasn’t slain but instead fell unconscious. Each round thereafter, they’d lose 1 hit point, and would die upon reaching -10 hit points. A character on 5 hit points who suffered 6 hit points damage? He was dead, as before. An optional rule allowed the unconscious state to kick in if they were reduced up to -3 hit points.

 

[Fairfax]

I like how you had to quote a blogpost instead of the actual book. Yes, that's a variant rule explained in page 82 of the 1E DMG, which also makes it clear that it's optional:

Death — This occurs when a creature’s hit points reach 0 (or optionally, −10). Most dead characters can be resurrected, although destruction of the body (among other factors) will prevent this.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Yes! Lets remember the best official NWN game/expansion!

Dorateen You also forgot to mention that the game had limited resting and none of that 5s rest anywhere shit.

Yes! Lets remember the best official NWN game/expansion!

Dorateen You also forgot to mention that the game had limited resting and none of that 5s rest anywhere shit.

Better than MotB you say?
I never actually played SoZ
I guess I should give it a shot after I finally play ToEE which I just started. Any advice for a first playthrough regarding party comp, etc?

 

[ArchAngel]

MotB was a great expansion for storyfags. I am not such a person, I am a combat and explorationfag. For me SoZ was best one.

 

[Black]

For the life of me I can't get the fucking Holiday Expansion for SoZ to work, I do everything they say to do, drop everything where it's supposed to go and nothing.

 

[Dorateen]

For the life of me I can't get the fucking Holiday Expansion for SoZ to work, I do everything they say to do, drop everything where it's supposed to go and nothing.

I don't know if this would help, but I have a NWN2 installation in the C Drive, but also a NWN2 folder in Documents where I drop modules, campaigns, haks and overrides. When you start up the game, does it say any files are missing? Or there is no campaign to choose?