NWN Neverwinter Nights (NWN & NWN2) Modules Thread

[ERYFKRAD]

N1 - Against the Cult of The Reptile God by Rich Barker

Yeah this is the one I played.

 

[razvedchiki]

in swordflight its required to bring along a henchman?
also what are some good weapons to specialize?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

in swordflight its required to bring along a henchman?
also what are some good weapons to specialize?

Two handed weapons are good

 

[plem]

in swordflight its required to bring along a henchman?
also what are some good weapons to specialize?

one henchman (Bard) is a necessary story character, but you're not with her 100% of the time... actually at times it feels like you're her henchman and she's the main character, but anyways you also get a few others that are optional, a Cleric, Sorcerer, Paladin, Fighter, Ranger... all of them temporary.

as for weapons, there's plenty of good ones of different kinds. I went with Longsword focus and found some great ones. and if you're a Paladin you can turn any weapon into a Holy Avenger eventually.

 

[Gargaune]

I went for a scimitar. Took a long while before I got my first magical one, and Keen options are even rarer, but there's no arguing with the crits.

 

[razvedchiki]

can you play solo in swordflight?

 

[plem]

I went for a scimitar. Took a long while before I got my first magical one, and Keen options are even rarer, but there's no arguing with the crits.

especially since in NWN1 Improved Critical stacks with the Keen property.

can you play solo in swordflight?

the Bard companion is mandatory. the others are optional I think but trust me, you'll want all the help you can get.

 

[plem]

that being said there are large stretches of the campaign where you're solo

 

[notpl]

can you play solo in swordflight?

you are always playing solo in swordflight, essentially. the mandatory companion has to be left at the start of every area after providing the PC with a few buffs, otherwise she'll die instantly. likewise there are some recruitable henchmen at various points, but again they all have terrible builds (like having power attack, something you cannot force them to disable, in an area where they will only be able to hit enemies on a 20) and you can only realistically use them as buffbots and leave them at the entrance of maps

 

[Gargaune]

I went for a scimitar. Took a long while before I got my first magical one, and Keen options are even rarer, but there's no arguing with the crits.

especially since in NWN1 Improved Critical stacks with the Keen property.

Damn right it does.

 

[plem]

can you play solo in swordflight?

you are always playing solo in swordflight, essentially. the mandatory companion has to be left at the start of every area after providing the PC with a few buffs, otherwise she'll die instantly. likewise there are some recruitable henchmen at various points, but again they all have terrible builds (like having power attack, something you cannot force them to disable, in an area where they will only be able to hit enemies on a 20) and you can only realistically use them as buffbots and leave them at the entrance of maps

after Zarala got Improved Invisibility in my run she almost never falls in battle. I also gave her all my horded scrolls and wands so she can cast high-level Wizard spells with UMD. at level 24 now with all the defensive buffs on she's almost as tanky as my paladin lol.

I thought the companions were pretty good. the Rogue/Paladin Tiefling and Gnoll Cleric were standouts, both for being flavorful and fairly powerful. Power Attack can be mitigated by Bless, Prayer, etc and doing stuff to lower enemies' AC like Knockdown, getting them flanked/flat-footed or CC spells. it'd be good to be able to turn off Power Attack but it's required for Cleave so it's more of a limitation on NWN's henchman system than a bad build.

 

[notpl]

I'm not saying it's Swordflight's fault the henchmen are bad, it's definitely a fault of the behavior controls, but the end result is that they're mostly just extra spell slots with which to buff your MC. If he made all of them fighter/scythe weaponmasters then they would be able to contribute to combat, sure, but that would also be kind of lame. Very few builds are capable of meaningfully contributing to combat in Swordflight with default AI and none of the henchmen have those builds, at least as far as I played. The gnoll cleric and the rogue/paladin tiefling will both die almost instantly if they go near any of the bosses for chapter 2, even fully buffed.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

How fast they die depends on how well you equip them to improve their armor class. The gnoll comes with a perma haste item at a time when not even your main char will have one. Nobody is preventing you from not using a polearm and equiping him with shield and onehanded weapon. ring of protection, amulett of natural ac, dodge ac boots etc. Of course none of them are as good as a well built main char but saying they can contribute nothing and die immediately definitely contradicts my own experience with the game.

 

[notpl]

Contradicts your experience with bosses specifically? Because I did specify that, in fairness. I'm specifically referring to the level 20 generals peppered throughout the demihuman army section. Sure, the companions can draw some aggro when you fight the trash mobs, but I found in both my swordflight playthroughs that a strong enough character to beat the bosses didn't need any help with the trash mobs, and the companions simply could not contribute meaningfully to the bossfights. Just letting them get near the fight resulted in their AI doing something so stupid that they immediately ate multiple critical sneak attack AoOs and died.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Contradicts your experience with bosses specifically? Because I did specify that, in fairness. I'm specifically referring to the level 20 generals peppered throughout the demihuman army section. Sure, the companions can draw some aggro when you fight the trash mobs, but I found in both my swordflight playthroughs that a strong enough character to beat the bosses didn't need any help with the trash mobs, and the companions simply could not contribute meaningfully to the bossfights. Just letting them get near the fight resulted in their AI doing something so stupid that they immediately ate multiple critical sneak attack AoOs and died.

No you didn't speak of boss encounters only, what you said was

you are always playing solo in swordflight, essentially. the mandatory companion has to be left at the start of every area after providing the PC with a few buffs, otherwise she'll die instantly. likewise there are some recruitable henchmen at various points, but again they all have terrible builds (like having power attack, something you cannot force them to disable, in an area where they will only be able to hit enemies on a 20) and you can only realistically use them as buffbots and leave them at the entrance of maps

which is nonsense, even Zarala isn't that bad. Even though she has the annoying tendency to run up to melee, cast a bard song or curse song or whatever, then shoot crossbow in melee, triggering AoOs.
I had the dwarf fighter, the gnoll cleric and the rogue/pala and from those only the pala remained slightly too squishy for my liking, probably because of the leather armor he has. I also remember an arcane archer companion (temporary) in ch3 which was very useful. And iirc Lilura said the lich companion is OP af (fear aura?), though I never took this lich as a henchman.

Those 2 level 20 guys, are the exception, not the rule, and yes, they make for hard encounters. If you depend only on the party to kill these guys for you, you'll have significant problems, even trying to somehow manipulate the AI to attack the prio target is already a problem. I did this with a wizard with very little difficulty: breach, forceful hand, kthxby, wait for party to kill them. Another time I had a shitty cleric build: invis potion->run to wizard->quick save so you can reload if they make their save->slay living and/or harm. then somehow kill the rest with party help. Weapon Master build: invis potion->run to wizard->knockdown->kill, then somehow survive/heal while killing the rest with party help.

The boss fight with them in ch3 is even harder, i couldn't do it even after trying a few times with that WM build. (and that was a "solo capable" build) You need to kill the wizard pretty much immediately otherwise his spell casting will be fatal (he's spamming different bigby hand spells for starters), and I could keep him knocked down and kill him, unfortunately that also meant the rogue got to sneak attack me undisturbed , which also proved fatal. So which ever one I've opened on and killed, the other one then got the time to kill me.
The game has an inbuilt respawn mechanic and at least in ch3 you actually want to die a few times because there are quests/things to do in the plane of air. So I killed the wizard, died, respawned in the plane of air, did some stuff there, rested, buffed up, returned to kill the rest. Another option is to use a gate scroll, that Balor on steroids makes this a cakewalk as well.

Fwiw, making a good build that could solo and doesn't depend on companions too much or at all is sound advice and will lead to a less frustrating experience in swordflight. Doesn't mean you have to leave companions at the start of the map. Even if you make a solo build, you will still run into problems at times, that need to be overcome.

 

[luj1]

Improved Invis + Haste + Stoneskin and let me see them die

 

[Dwemer Puzzle Box]

How fucked am I for thinking about playing elven rogue/wizard/arcane archer (9) through Swordflight? Or should I just stick with rogue/wizard and avoid disappointment?

 

[Lacrymas]

How fucked am I for thinking about playing elven rogue/wizard/arcane archer (9) through Swordflight? Or should I just stick with rogue/wizard and avoid disappointment?

It depends on how hard you want to go into Wizard. IIRC, Bard would be a better choice if you are only dipping into it for AA. If you are asking whether AA itself is good then the answer to that is that it's kind of meh imo. You can go through Swordflight with anything (the worst option would be a Shifter and it's still viable), so if you are dead set on playing AA, then all the power to you.

 

[Dwemer Puzzle Box]

It depends on how hard you want to go into Wizard.

Pretty much balls deep - I was thinking about AA9 for +5 arrow enchantment, as many Rogue levels as I'll need for skill points (and setting traps), the rest going to Wizard. Fighter/Wiz/AA would probably be waaay better combat-wise, but I just love having a ton of skill points.

 

[Lacrymas]

Then I question the whole build, lol. What are the arrows going to contribute? If you aren't casting as a Wizard, you are playing it wrong, and the levels which aren't Wizard are just going to diminish your spell DC and you'll be easier to dispel. If you go Human, you'll have more skill points and Wizard is already an Int-based character, so that will give you skill points as well. In what exactly do you want to put your skill points?

 

[plem]

How fucked am I for thinking about playing elven rogue/wizard/arcane archer (9) through Swordflight? Or should I just stick with rogue/wizard and avoid disappointment?

AA is good but it's not really a caster with a bow (like the AA in Pathfinder) as much as it is an archer with some neat SLAs. you don't actually need to be able to cast spells, just have a level in an arcane casting class, so 1 level in Bard is usually the best for the song and skillpoints. and it's best paired with a high BAB class because otherwise it comes online way too late. if you want casting and skillpoints, Ranger is a great option. Bard/Ranger/AA gets you most of the useful skills from Rogue (except lockpicking and disarming) while being much better in combat. traps are quite useful in Swordflight, so it could work well.

 

[d1nolore]

Yeah I’d go Ranger. Ranger is strong enough to survive on its own early, good bab, animal companion at lvl6, Animal empathy. Then AA abilities are boons on top. Should be able to take AA at 8?

I did a Wizard AA once, which was pointless because AA abilities were underpowered compared to just using spells. Looked cool, but you know can just fireball an stuff.

 

[rogueknight333]

One point about using Bard rather than Wizard to qualify for AA as is being recommended: if you are playing an Elf Bard can cause an XP penalty for not being a favored class, which Wizard avoids. Elf generally makes sense for AAs, as the Elven DEX bonus is helpful in ranged combat and the Elven Weapon Proficiency feat makes you automatically capable of using longbows so you do not need to worry about whether any other classes in the build have an appropriate proficiency. If playing a Half-Elf then Bard will indeed typically be better, likewise if there is no third class or the third class is also a prestige class.

Rogue/AA with a single token caster level should work ok in Swordflight. The Rogue skills will be quite useful, both benefit from High DEX, and you will eventually become quite formidable at ranged combat. The downside as Plem notes is that a Rogue's lowish BAB means it will take some time to qualify for AA, meaning that in the early parts of the series you will for all intents and purposes just be a Rogue. Straight Rogue is playable though not the easiest class to manage.

Rogue(or Ranger, etc.)/Wizard/AA with lots of wizard levels is indeed a somewhat questionable build concept, as you risk falling between two stools, not being that good at either magic or combat. As a rule Fighter/Mage-type builds do not work well in 3E without specialized prestige classes allowing you to increase caster levels simultaneously with a warrior-type build, and this feature was not implemented in NWN. Ironically, the caster-oriented prestige classes in NWN (AA, Red Dragon Disciple, Palemaster) tend to complement actual caster classes very badly, though they are all strong classes in their own right, making Warrior Class/1 token caster level (or several to provide a handful of utility spells)/AA or RDD or PM good builds (as a general rule).

If determined to play a real wizard/AA build, I would suggest taking most AA levels pre-epic (to max your BAB) and most Wizard levels post-epic, with the occasional Rogue level taken for skill dumps. That way you will be reasonably effective as a ranged combatant at lower levels, and eventually become a somewhat capable caster as well at high levels. Alternatively, throwing a small handful of Rogue and AA levels into what is primarily a Wizard would not cripple your spellcasting ability too much while providing a little additional versatility.

 

[KainenMorden]

One point about using Bard rather than Wizard to qualify for AA as is being recommended: if you are playing an Elf Bard can cause an XP penalty for not being a favored class, which Wizard avoids. Elf generally makes sense for AAs, as the Elven DEX bonus is helpful in ranged combat and the Elven Weapon Proficiency feat makes you automatically capable of using longbows so you do not need to worry about whether any other classes in the build have an appropriate proficiency. If playing a Half-Elf then Bard will indeed typically be better, likewise if there is no third class or the third class is also a prestige class.

Rogue/AA with a single token caster level should work ok in Swordflight. The Rogue skills will be quite useful, both benefit from High DEX, and you will eventually become quite formidable at ranged combat. The downside as Plem notes is that a Rogue's lowish BAB means it will take some time to qualify for AA, meaning that in the early parts of the series you will for all intents and purposes just be a Rogue. Straight Rogue is playable though not the easiest class to manage.

Rogue(or Ranger, etc.)/Wizard/AA with lots of wizard levels is indeed a somewhat questionable build concept, as you risk falling between two stools, not being that good at either magic or combat. As a rule Fighter/Mage-type builds do not work well in 3E without specialized prestige classes allowing you to increase caster levels simultaneously with a warrior-type build, and this feature was not implemented in NWN. Ironically, the caster-oriented prestige classes in NWN (AA, Red Dragon Disciple, Palemaster) tend to complement actual caster classes very badly, though they are all strong classes in their own right, making Warrior Class/1 token caster level (or several to provide a handful of utility spells)/AA or RDD or PM good builds (as a general rule).

If determined to play a real wizard/AA build, I would suggest taking most AA levels pre-epic (to max your BAB) and most Wizard levels post-epic, with the occasional Rogue level taken for skill dumps. That way you will be reasonably effective as a ranged combatant at lower levels, and eventually become a somewhat capable caster as well at high levels. Alternatively, throwing a small handful of Rogue and AA levels into what is primarily a Wizard would not cripple your spellcasting ability too much while providing a little additional versatility.

How do you think the 3 e "fighter/mage" type builds stack up vs pure wizards or sorcerers of equivalent level in nwn in general?

 

[rogueknight333]

How do you think the 3 e "fighter/mage" type builds stack up vs pure wizards or sorcerers of equivalent level in nwn in general?

I thought it fairly obvious from what I already wrote that an attempt at a true fighter/mage (i.e. one making a very significant investment in both warrior and caster levels) in NWN would compare poorly to a pure mage, as such a build by trying to be strong at both combat and spellcasting would end up rather weak at both. Better to specialize and be outstanding at one of the two. That is not to say that completely pure mages are the most optimal casters, as a few levels in other classes (e.g., giving a wizard several rogue levels for skill dumps, giving a sorcerer a couple paladin levels for a big boost to saves and Persuade skill dumps to provide another use for CHA, etc.) can be quite useful. Taking too many non-caster levels though can seriously cripple one's spellcasting power.

Also note that in 3E one can specialize in terms of actual capabilities while still being multi-classed. A fighter with, e.g., ten Red Dragon Disciple levels, or a Fighter/Weapon Master/Tumble skill dump class will typically be more powerful than a pure fighter. That is because there are multiple classes that enhance melee combat power, though, so that tends not to work so well for casters, due to NWN having no prestige classes that complement casters (if we are talking about the standard base game, anyway - additional prestige classes can of course be modded in).

Some expert NWN players do like to play so called "Melee Mage" builds, particularly in rest-restricted environments, which are mage builds designed to also be somewhat competent at melee combat. The theory is that such a build can use straight-forward combat to clear out typical trashmobs, thereby conserving one's spells for boss fights or other especially difficult encounters. However such builds consist mostly, and sometimes entirely, of caster levels, just with ability scores, feats, and buffing spells tweaked to make them more melee-capable, with sometimes a small number of levels from a warrior class thrown in.