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NWN Neverwinter Nights (NWN & NWN2) Modules Thread

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
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18,737
Pathfinder: Wrath
DramaticPopcorn, because it was a smart money sink that gave you access to items you can't normally get, you got to choose what buildings to build in it, it provided you with exploration possibilities to get unique NPCs for it, you got to give quests to an adventuring party that later either payed off or got them killed, building up the defenses helped you out when you were defending it, it felt like a natural progression in the story, it was one of the culminations of the story even, you got to order people around etc. It wasn't trivial is what I'm trying to get at and it was a logical part of the game.
 

DramaticPopcorn

Guest
So, you like it because of inconsequential artificial bullshit of no actual worth.

Save for items, you can get access to almost all content Crossroad Keep has to offer, including those few impactful choices, without dropping a dime on it.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
Haven't had the pleasure. But I do dislike strongholds in general unless they are meaningfully integrated into campaign/game world. Don't like them in vacuums because that's almost like a mini-game, which romances generally are, too.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
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Pathfinder: Wrath
PoE's was literally a mini-game, a pop-up menu in the interface. Sawyer admitted that it was made as boring as possible on purpose, but boring on purpose is still boring. It's not only boring though, it's a stain on gaming in general. Except Stronghold Keep I don't know any other stronghold that has been done well, I'm not saying that is done perfectly or awesomely, but it was a step in the right direction and has the dubious honor of being the best stronghold in a game (at least those I've played).
 

Dorateen

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The Crystal Mist Mountains
Just picked up NWN 2 today since I never played it back in the day.

Make sure to pick up the Storm of Zehir expansion. It's a throwback to more of a Pool of Radiance type adventure (at least more so than anything in the Neverwinter Nights franchise) with its overland maps, non-linear exploration and player created party.
 

pippin

Guest
If it's the gog version then it has all the official expansion plus one fanmade campaign.
 
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Since NWN was free on GOG I decided to finally try out the Bastard of Kosigan series I've heard a lot of good things about. Beat Exile of the West so far. The modules have been discussed on the Codex already, but I haven't seen much in regards to the English translation, so here are some thoughts:

The quality of the text, vocabulary, etc. is good. I don't speak French, so I have no idea how it compares to the original, but the choice of words usually carries across the character of NPCs and the Bastard himself pretty well. This is especially important since the game frequently goes into politics and history, and thankfully I never felt like the translator was struggling to explain events that they did not understand.

The issue is style. The ellipses...holy shit are there many of them...it seems like the author insists of putting ellipses everywhere...instead of punctuation...even the readmes are written this way...and the walkthroughs.... This alone makes the dialogue pretty hard to read. The game has been described as a "page-turner", and I would agree that the intrigue and characterization makes it so. However the fucking ellipses try their best to make you hate reading the dialogues. I'm sure this is not going to bother a lot of people, but I doubt that people with low tolerance for this kind of thing are going to make it through the module. Thankfully, it seems to have improved slightly in later modules (meaning there is the occasional coherent sentence sandwiched between all the ellipses).

There is another annoying stylistic choice that only affects the Exile of the West, the first module of the series. The translator(s) decided to make most of the German characters in the module speak with an accent, meaning that "Otherwise, why would you want to do that" becomes "Ozzervise, vhy vould you vant to do zat?" Not only is this a little stupid, it is inconsistent. Italian characters don't have accents, French characters don't have accents, but Germans (the majority in the module) are written in wonderfully broken English because presumably the translators were only familiar with the stereotypical German accent. This didn't really bother me, but together with the abuse of ellipses it meant that occasionally I had to re-read a few lines several times in an attempt to decipher them, which you don't want to do in a "page-turner".

I took issue with the above but still managed to complete the module and thoroughly enjoyed my time with it. Again, I am sure this is not going to bother a lot of people, but I figure it would be good to know for those who were considering playing this module but were worried about the quality of the translation.
 
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The island of misfit mascots
Surprised there hasn't been more D&D games that have allowed for monster characters. In PnP 3.5 games (the last version I've played PnP), the rules for vampire characters in particular worked really well (in terms of level penalty, so unless you lived a long long life, you'd be a vampire with a smattering of skills, getting better the longer you could pick up exp). Especially for Planescape setting - pure fighters were gimped, unless you mixed them with a monster class (an intelligent golem, for example, made a fighter an even match for a mage of same level-minus-monster-penalty), but the rest balanced out well enough that only minimal tweaking was needed to make it a game of 'who can outsmart or get the jump on each other' rather than mages overwhelming everyone else with sheer power.
 

Togukawa

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Messages
317
Recommendations. Keep them coming.

I'm ashamed to admit that ADwR is the module with most roleplaying choices and memorable characters that I've played...

:prosper:


You might like Tales of Arterra. It has pretty interesting companions and is pretty good from a roleplaying and immersion point of view. Companions interject in conversations and there are often multiple ways to finish quests. It's also a story that's actually finished, complete with an epilogue which does depend on the choices that you've made in the second and final part.
If you liked vampire heaven defied, you might also like the bitter taste of blood. I played it quite a while ago, but I remember it having some nice vampire roleplaying opportunities.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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Surprised there hasn't been more D&D games that have allowed for monster characters. In PnP 3.5 games (the last version I've played PnP), the rules for vampire characters in particular worked really well (in terms of level penalty, so unless you lived a long long life, you'd be a vampire with a smattering of skills, getting better the longer you could pick up exp). Especially for Planescape setting - pure fighters were gimped, unless you mixed them with a monster class (an intelligent golem, for example, made a fighter an even match for a mage of same level-minus-monster-penalty), but the rest balanced out well enough that only minimal tweaking was needed to make it a game of 'who can outsmart or get the jump on each other' rather than mages overwhelming everyone else with sheer power.
Original D&D did explicitly allow for PCs to be members of non-standard races, although the rules for that were left to the DM:
Other Character Types: There is no reason that players cannot be allowed to play as virtually anything, provided they begin relatively weak and work up to the top, i.e., a player wishing to be a Dragon would have to begin as let us say, a "young" one and progress upwards in the usual manner, steps being predetermined by the campaign referee.

The AD&D 1st edition Dungeon Master's Guide included a lengthier section on this topic:
THE MONSTER AS A PLAYER CHARACTER
On occasion one player or another will evidence a strong desire to operate
as a monster, conceiving a playable character as a strong demon, a devil,
a dragon, or one of the most powerful sort of undead creatures. This is
done principally because the player sees the desired monster character as
superior to his or her peers and likely to provide a dominant role for him or
her in the campaign. A moment of reflection will bring them to the unalterable
conclusion that the game is heavily weighted towards mankind.
ADVANCED DBD is unquestionably "humanocentric", with demi-humans,
semi-humans, and humanoids in various orbits around the sun of
humanity. Men are the worst monsters, particularly high level characters
such as clerics, fighters, and magic-users - whether singly, in small
groups, or in large companies. The ultra-powerful beings of other planes
are more fearsome - the 3 D s of demi-gods, demons, and devils are
enough to strike fear into most characters, let alone when the very gods
themselves are brought into consideration. Yet, there is a point where the
well-equipped, high-level party of adventurers can challenge a demon
prince, an arch-devil, or a demi-god. While there might well be some near
or part humans with the group so doing, it is certain that the leaders will be
human. In co-operation men bring ruin upon monsterdom, for they have
no upper limits as to level or acquired power from spells or items.

The game features humankind for a reason. It is the most logical basis in
an illogical game. From a design aspect it provides the sound groundwork.
From a standpoint of creating the campaign milieu it provides the most
readily usable assumptions. From a participation approach it is the only
method, for a11 players are, after all is said and done, human, and it allows
fhem the role with which most are most desirous and capable of identifying
with. From all views then it is enough fantasy to ossume a swords &
sorcery cosmos, with impossible professions and make-believe magic. To
adventure amongst the weird is fantasy enough without becoming that
too! Consider also that each and every Dungeon Master worthy of that title
is continually at work expanding his or her campaign milieu. The game is
not merely a meaningless dungeon and an urban base around which is
plopped the dreaded wilderness. Each of you must design a world, piece
by piece, as if a jigsaw puzzle were being hand crafted, and each new
section must fit perfectly the pattern of the other pieces. Faced with such a
task all of us need all of the aid and assistance we can get. Without such
help the sheer magnitude of the task would force most of us to throw up
our hands in despair.

By having a basis to work from, and a well-developed body of work to
draw upon, at least part of this task is handled for us. When history, folklore,
myth, fable and fiction can be incorporated or used as reference for
the campaign, the magnitude of the effort required is reduced by several
degrees. Even actual sciences can be used - geography, chemistry,
physics, and so forth. Alien viewpoints can be found, of course, but not in
quantity (and often not in much quality either). Those works which do not
feature mankind in a central role are uncommon. Those which do not deal
with men at all are scarce indeed. To attempt to utilize any such bases as
the central, let alone sole, theme for a campaign milieu is destined to be
shallow, incomplete, and totally unsatisfying for all parties concerned
unless the creator is a Renaissance Man and all-around universal genius
with a decade or two to prepare the game and milieu. Even then, how can
such an effort rival one which borrows from the talents of genius and
imaginative thinking which come to us from literature?

Having established the why of the humanocentric basis of the game, you
will certainly see the impossibility of any lasting success for a monster
player character. The environment for adventuring will be built around
humans and demi-humans for the most part. Similarly, the majority of
participants in the campaign will be human. So unless the player desires a
character which will lurk alone somewhere and be hunted by adventurers,
there are only a few options open to him or her. A gold dragon can assume
human shape, so that is a common choice for monster characters. If alignment
is stressed, this might discourage the would-be gold dragon. If it is
also pointed out that he or she must begin at the lowest possible value,
and only time and the accumulation and retention of great masses of
wealth will allow any increase in level (age), the idea should be properly
squelched. If even that fails, point out that the natural bent of dragons is
certainly for their own kind - if not absolute solitude - so what part
could a solitary dragon play in a group participation game made up of
non-dragons? Dragon non-player characters, yes! As player characters, not
likely at all.

As to other sorts of monsters as player characters, you as DM must decide
in light of your aims and the style of your campaign. The considered
opinion of this writer is that such characters are not beneficial to the game
and should be excluded. Note that exclusion is best handled by restriction
and not by refusal. Enumeration of the limits and drawbacks which are
attendant upon the monster character will always be sufficient to steer the
intelligent player away from the monster approach, for in most cases it
was only thought of as a likely manner of game domination. The truly experimental-
type player might be allowed to play such a monster character
for a time so as to satisfy curiosity, and it can then be moved to non-player
status and still be an interesting part of the campaign -and the player is
most likely to desire to drop the monster character once he or she has
examined its potential and played that role for a time. The less intelligent
players who demand to play monster characters regardless of obvious consequences
will soon remove themselves from play in any event, for their
own ineptness will serve to have players or monsters or traps finish them
Off.

So you are virtually on your own with regard to monsters as player
characters. You have advice as to why they are not featured, why no
details of monster character classes are given herein. The rest is up to you,
for when all is said and done, it is your world, and your players must live in
it with their characters. Be good to yourself as well as them, and everyone
concerned will benefit from a well-conceived, well-ordered, fairly-judged
campaign built upon the best of imaginative and creative thinking

2nd edition AD&D had an optional Complete Book of Humanoids, published in 1993. There were also various rules covering specific additional races that appeared here and there over the years, for example BECMI D&D's GAZ10 The Orcs of Thar included rules for the more common humanoid races.
 

Jazz_

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Location
Sea of Ubiquity
What are the best NWN1 modules for a storyfag who loathes too much combat? I have started Kingmaker and so far I have enjoyed it quite a bit (I'm still at the beginning tho, after the cool prologue), also tried ADWR and I'm not too thrilled by it so far, the ''sex'' parts feel forced somehow, like it's a bad softcore movie or something. Hope it gets better.
 

Togukawa

Savant
Patron
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Messages
317
What are the best NWN1 modules for a storyfag who loathes too much combat? I have started Kingmaker and so far I have enjoyed it quite a bit (I'm still at the beginning tho, after the cool prologue), also tried ADWR and I'm not too thrilled by it so far, the ''sex'' parts feel forced somehow, like it's a bad softcore movie or something. Hope it gets better.

Tales of Arterra is a good storyfag module, it has no combat xp and quite a bit of the fights can just be skipped by sneaking/running past if you want to. As a fellow storyfag, I enjoyed it quite a bit. Bastard of Kosigan was already mentioned, it's not a dungeon crawler but does have some more combat. First episode is definitely worth playing, well crafted story, good roleplaying options. There are some design choices that could get on your nerves though, see Lithium's post. Protip: you get different responses in some main quest dialogs based on whether you have an evil or good alignment, so if you liked it it's worth replaying with another alignment going in.
 
Joined
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What are the best NWN1 modules for a storyfag who loathes too much combat?

Bastard of Kosigan was already mentioned, it's not a dungeon crawler but does have some more combat. First episode is definitely worth playing, well crafted story, good roleplaying options. There are some design choices that could get on your nerves though, see Lithium's post. Protip: you get different responses in some main quest dialogs based on whether you have an evil or good alignment, so if you liked it it's worth replaying with another alignment going in.

First module in the Kosigan series has, as far as I know, five areas that are somewhat trashmob heavy, four of which are optional. One of them is mandatory and is also near the beginning of the module, which you might find annoying. As others have mentioned, the story and characters are great stuff, so I recommend it for all your storyfaggy needs, *especially* if you want to roleplay an evil bastard who is not some cartoon villain.
 

Jazz_

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Sea of Ubiquity
Thank you all for the suggestions, I followed Lilura's guide and installed the Bastard of Kosigan...well, it starts with you having to survive a pack of wolves, then you are assaulted by 3 guards in a barn, and then as soon as you transition into the new area to go to Koln you are gang raped by an army of goblins, so much for combat light storifaggotry so far. :lol:
Gonna check the other suggested modules now.
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
1,832
Thank you all for the suggestions, I followed Lilura's guide and installed the Bastard of Kosigan...well, it starts with you having to survive a pack of wolves, then you are assaulted by 3 guards in a barn, and then as soon as you transition into the new area to go to Koln you are gang raped by an army of goblins, so much for combat light storifaggotry so far. :lol:
Gonna check the other suggested modules now.

The kobold dungeon is the one mandatory trashcombat zone I mentioned. The wolves were a bit much, I will give you that (actually ended up being the hardest fight besides the finale for me due to the fact that your equipment as awful at the start), but something with AoE or Great Cleave is enough to waste the weakass kobolds, and the inquisitors are pushovers the few times you are forced to fight them. Did you try either of the prestige classes that come with the modules? They come with free feats that give you ridiculous saving throws and persuade as a class skill (in case of errant knight, anyway) because you are more or less meant to play as one of these classes. Once you get to Cologne the game focus shifts towards political intrigue, but if the kobold rape dungeon has dissuaded you then I don't really blame you.
 

Jazz_

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Location
Sea of Ubiquity
The kobold dungeon is the one mandatory trashcombat zone I mentioned. The wolves were a bit much, I will give you that (actually ended up being the hardest fight besides the finale for me due to the fact that your equipment as awful at the start), but something with AoE or Great Cleave is enough to waste the weakass kobolds, and the inquisitors are pushovers the few times you are forced to fight them. Did you try either of the prestige classes that come with the modules? They come with free feats that give you ridiculous saving throws and persuade as a class skill (in case of errant knight, anyway) because you are more or less meant to play as one of these classes. Once you get to Cologne the game focus shifts towards political intrigue, but if the kobold rape dungeon has dissuaded you then I don't really blame you.

Yeah it was just a case of bad character creation (I made a weak fighter/bard hybrid), now I went with fighter/knight errand and I have dealt with the first wave of kobolds without much problem, let's see how it goes. Still trying to figure stuff out since I have never really played a NWN game before (except trying briefly NWN2 but the horrendous camera and banalshit story of the original campaign made me stop). I really dig the atmosphere that the barebone graphics create, it's quite charming.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,737
Pathfinder: Wrath
I'm afraid to start the Bastard of Kosigan because it's rumoured (probably even confirmed by Lilura?) that it gets more and more buggy and crash-prone the further you get into the episodes.
 

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