Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Nioh 2

Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,317
There's a 3 hour long gameplay stream of the first 2 missions on twitch.



Watched it at work, some thoughts/observations:

-It's a lot like the 1st game, maybe too much, which can be a determent to some people. Personally I'm glad that it's still Nioh and they didn't try to turn it into Sekiro 1.5 or someshit.
-Graphics are very similar but areas look nicer with better lighting and everything has a bit more detail to it. Still think it could look better.
-Area design is very similar to the 1st game so far - half of the first level is an outdoor village/fortification and the second half is a burning village where you run around on roofs dropping down water buckets on open fires; the 2nd level is a cave dungeon. However, they look nicer - the outdoor village area is in full daylight as opposed to nighttime when 90% of the outdoor Nioh 1 levels take place, and the cave has a lot of interesting structures like shrines, idols and other cool looking things that make parts of it look distinct.
-A lot of reused enemies from the 1st game (human soldiers, red horned demons, skeletons, zombies, slimes) but also a lot of new ones - really fast and agile human dual axe wielders, big one legged hammer demons, snake demons, little goblin things that become big if they take a bite out of you with their grab attack or eat another enemy's corpse, weird giant slugs with human faces. Some of the old mobs also got new moves. Enemy attacks are quite varied and numerous like in the first game (the hammer demons jump all over the place and do multiple attack combos and grabs, snakes have 3 different ranged attacks, one of which paralyzes you, several melee strikes and a grab). A normal demon enemy seems about as complex as an average Sekiro miniboss.
-Game is still mission based, which is good. Let Dark Souls/Sekiro have their big open world. I like the mission structure in Nioh, it works well for the game and lets me replay cool missions and bosses whenever I like.
-All the loot/stat fuckery is still here, with some new modifiers like corruption weapons and possibly more.
-New status effects but I have no idea what they do
-LESS WEAPON TYPES, which is decline. Axe is gone, dual swords are gone, chain scythe is gone, tonfas are gone. They added dual axes, which are new, work similar to dual swords and can be thrown at enemies in different ways. People in chat were saying that the alpha of the original Nioh also had like 3 weapon types so let's hope they add the rest later.
-Skill trees look like mini-PoE trees now. Not sure if they have more stuff in them but it seems so.
-Both missions had different ambience music, regular combat music and boss music. Not sure if these tracks will just end up being copypasted through the rest of the game but I hope not.

-!!!NEW MECHANICS!!!-

-Instead of spirit weapon you now have demon form, which isn't important since it basically does the same shit. What is important is that all non-human enemies (including bosses) can drop soul orbs when killed. These orbs can then be purified at the shrine and equipped to your guardian spirit to grant you demon skills. For example, the first boss in the game is basically the chain ogre from the first Nioh but with fire magic and teleportation and one of his attacks turns him into a giant flame tornado that flies around the arena. Equipping his soul orb lets you become the fire tornado, which makes you untargettable and damages and stunlocks enemies you ram into. Each soul orb costs a certain number of points to equip and each guardian spirit has a different number of those points available.

-Sometimes during a level you enter corrupted zones. These make everything dark and spooky, turn off your minimap and lower your stamina regen like the corruption pools and persist until you find the demon causing them and kill him. The two bosses I saw also could do this during the fight and while everything is corrupted their moveset changed.

That's about it. I think the game is gonna be fun and watching the stream made my peepee hard.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,147
Location
Platypus Planet
Nioh is one of my favorite games of this gen. Glad to see that Nioh 2 is a true sequel, i.e not straying too far from the original but building upon the foundations that it laid down.
 

Sentinel

Arcane
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
6,805
Location
Ommadawn
-LESS WEAPON TYPES, which is decline. Axe is gone, dual swords are gone, chain scythe is gone, tonfas are gone. They added dual axes, which are new, work similar to dual swords and can be thrown at enemies in different ways. People in chat were saying that the alpha of the original Nioh also had like 3 weapon types so let's hope they add the rest later.
Nioh 1 didn't have all the weapons in the alpha/betas. The kusarigama was added like in the last beta, as was another weapon I forget. And tons of skills are missing from the skill trees (they're just empty slots).

Also, the corrupted weapons can talk to you as you walk around asking for blood.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,801
I really really wanted to like Nioh, but in the end it mostly feels like I'm just mashing numbers against eachother. Enemies significantly above or below your level basically negate 90% of the mechanics. They can either block infinitely or not at all, and ditto for you, can attack endlessly without running out of stamina, completely shrug off status effects before they can trigger (or die in one shot before they matter), and so on. A well balanced fight where stamina and blocking and status effects and shit all work was fun, but exceedingly rare. 95% of the time it was either like playing dynasty warriors and mowing down mooks or me cheesing the ever loving shit out of something that can kill me in one swing.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,922
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Just watched a closed alpha stream. Um, it's basically a Nioh 1 expansion. Most of the mechanics, assets and items are exactly the same. The UI is the same. The combat is mostly the same. There's a new chardev system and the spirit weapon thingy, altho for both the change is p. much cosmetic.

Not that having more of Nioh 1 is a bad thing per se but I did expect more.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,801
I think people expecting all new assets and engines in every new game has been a huge drag on the industry. Refining what exists can often produce better results. I'd rather see the exact same game redone with just numbers tweaked everywhere (enemy stats, animation speeds, drop rates, etc.) than a whole new game with shit balance. New assets are fun, but novelty has a short halflife compared to good balance.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
Patron
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,241
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The real question for me will be whether they can improve enemy variety and encounter and level design. With that in mind, it's a good sign that they haven't spent their time and money reinventing the wheel. The other possibility is of course that this is a lazy cash grab slam dunk. Time will tell.
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
Just watched a closed alpha stream. Um, it's basically a Nioh 1 expansion. Most of the mechanics, assets and items are exactly the same. The UI is the same. The combat is mostly the same. There's a new chardev system and the spirit weapon thingy, altho for both the change is p. much cosmetic.

Not that having more of Nioh 1 is a bad thing per se but I did expect more.
It's basically amounting to what Dark Souls 2 was to Dark Souls 1. Except Nioh's world design didn't really matter anyway, so no downsides.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
42
-New status effects but I have no idea what they do
Seen in the video ? Because on contrary, the character's sheet at the shrine clearly shows that they entirely removed the Wind and Earth elemental effects.:decline:

-All the loot/stat fuckery is still here, with some new modifiers like corruption weapons and possibly more.
Spirit has been replaced by a new Courage attribute, there are also minor changes for their effects but otherwise it's pretty much the same, yes.

The loot though seems to be as abundant as in the first, which is bullshit at its finest. And i hope that they will make a shorter game, with far less pointless side missions, and only 3 cycles of difficulty, because this is largely enough.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,922
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
I'd rather see the exact same game redone with just numbers tweaked everywhere

If I'm buying a brand new game, not an addon or an expansion, I do expect a bunch of new stuff. I dare say that's normal. If FromSoft made, say, Bloodborne 2 and almost everything looked and felt like BB1 I think most of the fanbase would be super weirded out by this.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,922
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Just watched a closed alpha stream. Um, it's basically a Nioh 1 expansion. Most of the mechanics, assets and items are exactly the same. The UI is the same. The combat is mostly the same. There's a new chardev system and the spirit weapon thingy, altho for both the change is p. much cosmetic.

Not that having more of Nioh 1 is a bad thing per se but I did expect more.
It's basically amounting to what Dark Souls 2 was to Dark Souls 1. Except Nioh's world design didn't really matter anyway, so no downsides.

What. Dark Souls 2 ran on a brand new engine, with brand new assets, UI and combat. It looked and felt nothing like DS1.

Btw I'm more or less fine with this Nioh 1.5, not dissing it or anything, it just looks very weird. I don't think I've ever seen a sequel looking so much like the original game.
 

Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,317
-New status effects but I have no idea what they do
Seen in the video ? Because on contrary, the character's sheet at the shrine clearly shows that they entirely removed the Wind and Earth elemental effects.:decline:

-All the loot/stat fuckery is still here, with some new modifiers like corruption weapons and possibly more.
Spirit has been replaced by a new Courage attribute, there are also minor changes for their effects but otherwise it's pretty much the same, yes.

The loot though seems to be as abundant as in the first, which is bullshit at its finest. And i hope that they will make a shorter game, with far less pointless side missions, and only 3 cycles of difficulty, because this is largely enough.

I saw some attacks make new symbols appear below enemy health bars.

Didn't notice Wind and Earth getting removed, that is indeed decline. Hope they're gonna be in the full game.
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
What. Dark Souls 2 ran on a brand new engine, with brand new assets, UI and combat. It looked and felt nothing like DS1.
I was more just referring to the fact it focused entirely on improving combat and mechanics. Perhaps Ninja Gaiden Sigma to Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 is a better way of putting it, especially since it's Team Ninja. Hopefully they don't include the unfair bullshit like NG2 though.
Btw I'm more or less fine with this Nioh 1.5, not dissing it or anything, it just looks very weird. I don't think I've ever seen a sequel looking so much like the original game.
The game was in development Hell for a decade, they just threw some shit together at one point to get it out the door. Hopefully this is the "complete" game they wanted to make from the start.
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
6,473
Location
Not Europe
Instead of spirit weapon you now have demon form, which isn't important since it basically does the same shit. What is important is that all non-human enemies (including bosses) can drop soul orbs when killed. These orbs can then be purified at the shrine and equipped to your guardian spirit to grant you demon skills. For example, the first boss in the game is basically the chain ogre from the first Nioh but with fire magic and teleportation and one of his attacks turns him into a giant flame tornado that flies around the arena. Equipping his soul orb lets you become the fire tornado, which makes you untargettable and damages and stunlocks enemies you ram into. Each soul orb costs a certain number of points to equip and each guardian spirit has a different number of those points available
So it's a customizable devil trigger from dmc2? I can live with that
 

CyberModuled

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
443
I know this was part of what made Nioh special but I'm really not looking forward to the loot system returning at all unless they make drops more special or something (or please at the very least streamline the process of having to sell/dismantle all the useless weapons and armor you pick up mid to late game so it isn't just me doing something else from my monitor while mashing the A button).
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
64
Nioh is one of my all-time favorites, and I'm stoked for the second game.

On his goal for Nioh 2

Yasuda: “My goal for Nioh 2 would be a natural evolution, not a dramatic change or deterioration. In the first title, although we were very happy with how it was received, there were things that we could not have accomplished at the same time. So I’d like to strengthen what we did well, while at the same time fix some of the issues that we couldn’t do in time. That’s what I’d like to see happen in Nioh 2.”

Pretty much exactly what I want to hear (or read). Iterative approach ftw!

Didn't add invasions.

Don't want.

Didn't connect the levels.

Don't need.

Didn't ditch the diablo loot.

Okay... I'll give you that one. ;)

I'd settle for a more consistent means of creating and upgrading gear with specific properties. Too much RNG in regards to weapons and armor in the first game.
 

Lyre Mors

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,420
I thought I would hate the loot system in the first game, and while it's still not preferable to me over hand-placed loot, I still managed to have fun with it.

But please, PLEASE, for the love of god, tone it down. What a fucking drag it was constantly having to dismantle/sell/trade for experience. It was just too much and I always hated the feeling of knowing I would have to clear out my inventory soon.
 

Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,317
The loot system is part of what makes Nioh Nioh. I really liked that they included the ability to fuck around with item stats by transferring, rerolling, etc. and made different bonuses actually impactful especially when stacked, which made different character builds not only possible but also vastly different in gameplay. I wouldn't mind an occasional hand-placed unique with extra special bonuses but I'm not upsed that there aren't any.

Personally, I'm happy the system will make it over to Nioh 2. What I would like is some ability to filter/search out items by stats or passives and more different item bonuses, perhaps.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
64
The loot system is part of what makes Nioh Nioh. I really liked that they included the ability to fuck around with item stats by transferring, rerolling, etc. and made different bonuses actually impactful especially when stacked, which made different character builds not only possible but also vastly different in gameplay.

That's the problem: due to the random results of forging and the exponentially increasing costs of soul matching, your build depends in part on luck and grinding to get desirable weapons and armor.

Random drops can be acceptable, but the smithing system should allow you to customize and upgrade those drops without gambling or exorbitant costs.
 

Suicidal

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
2,317
The loot system is part of what makes Nioh Nioh. I really liked that they included the ability to fuck around with item stats by transferring, rerolling, etc. and made different bonuses actually impactful especially when stacked, which made different character builds not only possible but also vastly different in gameplay.

That's the problem: due to the random results of forging and the exponentially increasing costs of soul matching, your build depends in part on luck and grinding to get desirable weapons and armor.

Random drops can be acceptable, but the smithing system should allow you to customize and upgrade those drops without gambling or exorbitant costs.

That's kinda the idea of random loot systems, tho. If all necessary buffs and passives were easily available then you would be able to become really overpowered really fast and steamroll through the content. With randomness you're forced to use the best stuff that's available to you at the moment, gradually updating and tweaking your build as you find more pieces of your build puzzle.

I found Nioh's reforging and soul matching sufficient to counteract the randomness of loot and get the passives I wanted on the items I wanted. If they find a way to upgrade those systems to be more rewarding then I'm all for it however it doesn't look like they're gonna be changing the core mechanics much.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom