Interview NMA's big to-do about nothing posted as advertised

[Volourn]

"I pay attention to everything Bio says officially (it's sorta my job here), but since they've been guilty of hyping and misinforming, I'm skeptical about everything, regardless of whether it fits my beliefs or not."

Nonsense. Whenever a BIOweenie dares to refer to their combat system as turn base or even close to it; youa re all over it and claim they speak for all of the BIO and its truly how the company feels 100%. Like I said, you beleive them only when what they say reinforces what you already believe.


"I doubted that they loved it, which is a different thing."

Doubt all you want. Denying the truth doesn't make it an less true.


"Why? Out of curiosity. "

Because. I don't want to. Though; nice dodge of the fact that they are evn doing DD proves that BIO has no intention of 'abandoning' NWN to anyone.


"One would think that he had enough of their shit for a long time, yet he quit just in time to jump on the KOTOR ship."

Everyone has a breaking point. Everyone. Heck, JE at one point said he'd never a'bandon his crew' then a few months later he does. Why? Certainly because he wsn't because he was being an asshole; but because he just couldn't stand to work for Interplay anymore. Period. The same happened to all the other fomer employees (the ones who quite not those who got canned).


"Come back when you get a decent computer that can run ToEE and dig the difference. "

None of that will fix TOEE's story, boring characters, worst town ever tm., easy combat, and the list goes on.


"I'm not really interested in MP components of games, and if you say that NWN MP is great, I'll take your word for it."

NWN doesn't even need MP to crush TOEE. HOTu does that itself. The OC does that itself in spite of its problems. Even SOU is better than TOEE and that's saying LOTS. The support fromd evs who actually care enough to support the game without whining about the Evil publisher tm (notice how its the same publisher lol) are part of what makes NWN a better gaming experience and most certainly the closest D&D PC game to capture the spirit and dynamics of pnp D&D.


Game over.

 

[Sol Invictus]

"Come back when you get a decent computer that can run ToEE and dig the difference. "

Yeah, and it'll refuse to run properly on your SP2 system. How's that for a nail in the face? Oh yeah, for the record, it's almost as laggy on my P4 2.8c and Radeon 9800 XT as it was on my P4 1.8 with Geforce Ti4200 in the later areas. Care to explain that?

If you want to argue about how Bioware has a Live Team dedicated to the release of patches and after-sales QA, and as such 'cannot be compared to Troika's 30-man team', I can just as easily argue that Troika should not be given any leniency inspite of this fact. If the products of both companies cost the same (49.95 upon release), then the customer would expect to receive the same service he gets in a Bioware game when he plays a Troika game. The price more than justifies his complaints. The average customer cannot be expected to give some form of leniency to a company for a game he just paid money for. The best he can do for himself is remember the name of the company and refuse to buy any future games they develop. As for leniency: give me a fucking break. Business isn't a charity.

It's called building a reputation. If Troika doesn't care about their reputation enough to develop quality titles, then they don't deserve anybody's money no matter what 'talents' they may have (but for some reason don't bother to flaunt). Where was TOEE's great storyline? When someone pays 49.95 for a game he damn well better be getting a full product with after-sales support for it.

As for my previous post, I would add that even if they did have a 3 month delay in implementing the 3.5 rules conversion (and add whatever time it took for WOTC to verify their changes, assuming there was some draconian verification process everytime they implemented anything), that's still a fucking poor excuse for not working on the storyline, or the NPC, or the writing, or those lovingly atrocious voiceovers until the last minute. Since when did game development philosophy turn into "Why do today what you can postpone until tomorrow?"

 

[Stark]

Sigh. seeing that folks here seem to prefer Troika bashing and defending (it's the latest trend!!!)... no one seems to want to discuss the question raised in the interview instead.

I suppose Troika had it coming. If we enjoy bashing Bioware and BethSoft, it's only fair Troika gets flamed too. Spread the love, dudes.

RTwPers tend to not pay so much attention to combat anyway, so you might as well program towards TB, making the turns "fast" and "continuous" for the RTwP mode. As long as the animations are nice in their "dynamic cutscene" the RTwPers won't know the difference. :twisted:

Ermmm... do you mean the actions occur in turns (so it's still one move after another) but it's all automated (if you do nothing your character will run up and bash the other guy automatically?) until interrupted by gamer?

or do you mean real time with pause ala NWN?

I really would love a true TB combat game. But a hybrid that would incurr extra dev hours? If it means features would be cut and compromises made, then i say forget it, and go for RTwP instead. Troika would probably sell more copies that way and make much needed money.

Besides, as i said in earlier post, I think a hybrid would only benefit TB gamers but not the other way round.

 

[Volourn]

"If you want to argue about how Bioware has a Live Team dedicated to the release of patches and after-sales QA, and as such 'cannot be compared to Troika's 30-man team', I can just as easily argue that Troika should not be given any leniency inspite of this fact. If the products of both companies cost the same (49.95 upon release),"

Not to mention the fact as I mentioned above that BIO hit it big on their second game in the industry with BG while TOEE's second game was TOEE. On top of that, Troika had the game experience backing them that BIO did not since as above Tim Caim alone had over 10 years experience devloping RPGs while BIO was a medical software company. Yet, BIO has manged to release product after product while not perfect seem to both satisfy their fans, make BIO happy making them, and sale millions. And, they support their products (geez, KOTOR which like TOEE is striaght up SP, has had 3 patches no questions asked, and it even has a builty in updater). WOWSERS!

There is no comaprison between the two games. I like Troika (inspite of my complaints; I did LOVE Arcanum which is better than both NWN OC and KOTOR); but BIO wins hands down.

The facts are there.

All I gotta say - 1. Game #2

2. Both D&D

3. Troika has more gam dvelopment experience

4. BG2 beats the pants off TOEE in all the areas that matter most

5. Game over


As for TOEE - again - it should be pointed out that Troika did get an extension for TOEE (1, or 2 months I beleive) and they had done work on the engine pre deal with Atari and that's why Troika was "confident" that the deadline was doable in the first place...

 

[Vault Dweller]

Nonsense. Whenever a BIOweenie dares to refer to their combat system as turn base or even close to it; youa re all over it and claim they speak for all of the BIO and its truly how the company feels 100%.

Link please, or stop posting bullshit.

Doubt all you want. Denying the truth doesn't make it an less true.

You do realize that just because you think so, that doesn't automatically makes it a fact or a universal truth?

Though; nice dodge of the fact that they are evn doing DD proves that BIO has no intention of 'abandoning' NWN to anyone.

And Interplay loves Fallout... Bio gave the sequel away. Unlike the bs you usually post, that's a fact. Draw your own conclusions if you can. If you can't and really want to believe in something, who am I to tell you not to?

Heck, JE at one point said he'd never a'bandon his crew' then a few months later he does. Why?

Likes to say something he doesn't mean?

...but because he just couldn't stand to work for Interplay anymore. Period.

Must be nice to be so sure of things you have little clue about, eh, Volourn?

"Come back when you get a decent computer that can run ToEE and dig the difference. "

None of that will fix TOEE's story, boring characters, worst town ever tm., easy combat, and the list goes on.

Nice dodge. Scanning for relevancy....zero. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't we talking about the combat ONLY?

NWN doesn't even need MP to crush TOEE. HOTu does that itself. The OC does that itself in spite of its problems. Even SOU is better than TOEE ...

See previous reply

The support fromd evs who actually care enough to support the game without whining about the Evil publisher tm (notice how its the same publisher lol) are part of what makes NWN a better gaming experience and most certainly the closest D&D PC game to capture the spirit and dynamics of pnp D&D.

The support from developers are part of what makes NWN the closest DnD game to capture.... Huh? What else contributes? How about packaging? I think that box art really nails what PnP DnD is all about.

Not to mention the fact as I mentioned above that BIO hit it big on their second game in the industry with BG while TOEE's second game was TOEE

Riiight. Aren't we forgetting a little fact that Bio used Iply license and money to do that?

And, they support their products (geez, KOTOR which like TOEE is striaght up SP, has had 3 patches no questions asked, and it even has a builty in updater)

Apples and oranges. If you can't see it, it's pointless to explain.

The facts are there.

Only the ones that support your theory. Do you believe that Interplay played no role in Bio development and success? How much money Iply dumped into BG and NWN?

 

[Vault Dweller]

"Come back when you get a decent computer that can run ToEE and dig the difference. "

Yeah, and it'll refuse to run properly on your SP2 system.

Nobody's denying ToEE's shortcomings. My reply referred to Volourn's complaints that he couldn't run ToEE properly whereas everybody and their fucking dog could. SP2 and DX thing came later.

As for leniency: give me a fucking break. Business isn't a charity.

That I agree with. Troika could have done a better job, and they admitted that, but overall ToEE was as good as any other straight dungeon crawler. That SP2 thing did screw up a lot of games, and I'm sure that Troika would have supported it better if Atari as a publisher was willing to support it as well.

 

[Volourn]

"Link please"

No. Links are for when someone has soemthing to prove. I have nothing to prove here.


"You do realize that just because you think so, that doesn't automatically makes it a fact or a universal truth?"

No shit sherlock. It's just too bad that the 'Codex can't follow that credo either. I'm just trying to fit in. LOL


"Bio gave the sequel away. Unlike the bs you usually post, that's a fact. Draw your own conclusions if you can. If you can't and really want to believe in something, who am I to tell you not to? "

Sequel, smequel. They are continuing NWN. That's why they have DD in the works. If they were abandoning NWN there wouldn't be an update coming, there wouldn't be DD coming, and they wouldn't be helping Obsidan with NWN2. Why do you lie?


"Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't we talking about the combat ONLY?"

Follow the discussion, Little One. It's not complicated. We were discussing combat ONLY until you made an error in judgement and said that NWN sucked completely. That opened up for an all out assault on TOEE's every weakness. Blame yourself.


"The support from developers are part of what makes NWN the closest DnD game to capture.... Huh? What else contributes? How about packaging? I think that box art really nails what PnP DnD is all about."

Haha. Nice that you cut out a big part of that. Just for fun, asa reminder, the DM client, the fact that D&D is meant to be played with multiple people not some jacakss jerking off in his grandmother's baement, a better story, more memorable characters, etc., etc. is what makes NWN closer to the D&D game that TOEE is. Deal with it.


"Riiight. Aren't we forgetting a little fact that Bio used Iply license and money to do that?"

Riiight. Aren't we forgetting the fact that Troika used Atari's license and money to do that? Point. Not. Found.


"Apples and oranges. If you can't see it, it's pointless to explain."

No, it isn't. But, hey, make more exuses for Troika screw ups. Bottom line is that BIO made it big with their 2nd game; Troika seemingly hasn't despite the fatc they had way more experience at the time. They lose.


"Do you believe that Interplay played no role in Bio development and success?"

Considering that Interplay is dead in the water while BIO is flourishing; it's easy to look back that BIO is the reason for BIO's success. Outside of the D&D license, Interplay did nothing but try to steal BIO's money hence the "break up".


"How much money Iply dumped into BG and NWN?"

How much money they get back in return? Way more than Atari sure did with TOEE. After all your Interplay bashing; I find it hilarious that youa re now supporting them as the reason why BIO is a success. Anything to bash BIO with illogic, right?


"My reply referred to Volourn's complaints that he couldn't run ToEE properly whereas everybody and their fucking dog could."

Whya re you lying? The only ones whos eemingly got TOEE to work properly were Troika fanboys. What a coincidink. Everyone else was whining and crying how the game wouldn't work. Hahaha. I'm glad you are wearing rose coloured glasses though.

 

[Vault Dweller]

"Link please"

No. Links are for when someone has soemthing to prove. I have nothing to prove here.

Yeah, links are for people who don't try to pass bullshit for facts. Sorry I asked.

Sequel, smequel. They are continuing NWN. That's why they have DD in the works. If they were abandoning NWN there wouldn't be an update coming, there wouldn't be DD coming, and they wouldn't be helping Obsidan with NWN2.

I already stated my opinion. You restated yours. Nothing else to say.

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't we talking about the combat ONLY?"

Follow the discussion, Little One. It's not complicated. We were discussing combat ONLY until you made an error in judgement and said that NWN sucked completely. That opened up for an all out assault on TOEE's every weakness. Blame yourself.

That was when you started digging your way out of "NWN combat is as deep and complex as ToEE combat" and brought up: "However, it is a more accurate D&D implementation than TOEE though. Take THAT." Take THAT was avery nice touch, Volourn, very kindergarten-ish.

the DM client, the fact that D&D is meant to be played with multiple people not some jacakss jerking off in his grandmother's baement, a better story, more memorable characters, etc., etc. is what makes NWN closer to the D&D game that TOEE is. Deal with it.

Yeah, too bad the combat sucks because DnD is a turn-based party-based system.

"Riiight. Aren't we forgetting a little fact that Bio used Iply license and money to do that?"

Riiight. Aren't we forgetting the fact that Troika used Atari's license and money to do that? Point. Not. Found.

It looks like you lost your ability to see points long time ago. Would you really compare Atari's treatment of Troika to Iply's treatment of Bio? I wonder how BG would have turned out, if Iply gave Bio 18 months, a word count, crappy voice over, etc. Keep looking for that point, it's in there somewhere.

"Do you believe that Interplay played no role in Bio development and success?"

Considering that Interplay is dead in the water while BIO is flourishing; it's easy to look back that BIO is the reason for BIO's success. Outside of the D&D license, Interplay did nothing but try to steal BIO's money hence the "break up".

After Bio milked Iply for 5 years of NWN development...

After all your Interplay bashing; I find it hilarious that youa re now supporting them as the reason why BIO is a success. Anything to bash BIO with illogic, right?

It's not like I'm praising Iply, they simply gave Bio a lot of money and a lot of time, and that was it. To be fair, Bio managed to use both wisely, and they've built a very successful business whereas Iply sank, but comparing Bio's and Troika's second games apple-to-apple style is unfair and illogical.

The only ones whos eemingly got TOEE to work properly were Troika fanboys. What a coincidink. Everyone else was whining and crying how the game wouldn't work. Hahaha. I'm glad you are wearing rose coloured glasses though.

That's the best you could come with? Yeah, Volourn, I would lie that my game had only one CTD just because I like Troika that much

 

[Volourn]

"Sorry I asked."

No, you aren't. Stop bullshitting.


"That was when you started digging your way out of "NWN combat is as deep and complex as ToEE combat"

It is. I'm digging my way out of that. Deal with it.


"Take THAT was avery nice touch, Volourn, very kindergarten-ish."

That's why I fit in here. Don't blame me for following your example.


"Yeah, too bad the combat sucks because DnD is a turn-based party-based system"

Wrong. PnP DnD is a tb combat simualtion that tries to get as close to Rt as it possibly can under the circumstances. Any DM that allows their players virtually unlimited time to decide what they'll do is a very poor DM. Period.


"Would you really compare Atari's treatment of Troika to Iply's treatment of Bio?"

Reasonable. They bot got extensions. As for tiem spent on the game considering that BG was a much larger game than TOEE it's no wonder BG took longer to make. Not to mention, how many patches did BG get? 1, or 2. WOWSERS! But, it works as intended. Go figure. Let's not forget that unlike Troika, BIo seemingly managed to make multiple games at once throughout their history without too much trouble.


"After Bio milked Iply for 5 years of NWN development... "

Liar. No need to lie. The entire dvelopment of NWN took 5 years which includes the two guys who came up with the cocnept while playing tiddlywinks + the 1 year or more AFTER Bio had left Interplay. So, again, why lie?


"but comparing Bio's and Troika's second games apple-to-apple style is unfair and illogical."

Youa re right. BIO came from a background of making medical software and one action game that was a low end success while Troika's big cahoona had histories in the game dvelopment business of 10+ years including the far reaching praised FO. yeah, youa re right. It wasn't fair for me to compare. Troika should have had the edge. Thanks for opening up my eyes. R00fles!


"Yeah, Volourn, I would lie that my game had only one CTD just because I like Troika that much"

No, the lie is the accusation of it (only* being me who had CTD problems with TOEE when it first came out. That's a flat out lie, and you know it. LOTS of people had the same problem.... not counting Troika fanboys coincidentally...

 

[Vault Dweller]

"Yeah, too bad the combat sucks because DnD is a turn-based party-based system"

Wrong. PnP DnD is a tb combat simualtion that tries to get as close to Rt as it possibly can under the circumstances. Any DM that allows their players virtually unlimited time to decide what they'll do is a very poor DM. Period.

I see. So, TB=unlimited time to decide? Cool.

"Would you really compare Atari's treatment of Troika to Iply's treatment of Bio?"

Reasonable. They bot got extensions.

And they both were working on camputar gaems.

As for tiem spent on the game considering that BG was a much larger game than TOEE it's no wonder BG took longer to make.

Well, if Troika was offered more then 18 months, they too could have made a larger game.

"After Bio milked Iply for 5 years of NWN development... "

Liar. No need to lie. The entire dvelopment of NWN took 5 years which includes the two guys who came up with the cocnept while playing tiddlywinks + the 1 year or more AFTER Bio had left Interplay. So, again, why lie?

So, they didn't do anything (and thus wasted no Interplay's money) during the first 4 years, but then added 73 people to those 2 lonely guys and quickly made it in a year after they split. Yeah, makes sense.

"but comparing Bio's and Troika's second games apple-to-apple style is unfair and illogical."

Youa re right. BIO came from a background of making medical software and one action game that was a low end success while Troika's big cahoona had histories in the game dvelopment business of 10+ years including the far reaching praised FO. yeah, youa re right. It wasn't fair for me to compare. Troika should have had the edge. Thanks for opening up my eyes. R00fles!

Yes, of course, we live in a world where only talent and skills count and things like money and luck are obsolete. Ask yourself one question: if there was no Interplay, where would Bio be with their lousy (judging by combat) RTS game?

 

[Kamaz]

Is it dialogue or discussion? Can you - at least try to answr question the dev raised? It is important, in comparison to flaming you both do.

I allready expressed my opinion - I would love to see both - RT and TB in their game. Or RT, but very good RT, with some brand new, original features and maybe even revulutionary solutions to common RT problems. If devs think they can manage creating both systems independently, with no inheritence like in Arcanum[which spoiled the real-time], I would just be happy with that.

 

[Sol Invictus]

It looks like you lost your ability to see points long time ago. Would you really compare Atari's treatment of Troika to Iply's treatment of Bio? I wonder how BG would have turned out, if Iply gave Bio 18 months, a word count, crappy voice over, etc. Keep looking for that point, it's in there somewhere.

1) 18 months is a relatively decent period of time, and a period that Troika agreed on before taking the contract, believing that they could finish the game before the alotted amount of time expired. They failed to do so and were given 2 expansion months, where they did not make good on their agreement.

2) The word count was messed up, and Troika should have found some way to talk their way out of it as Bioware did with KOTOR and LucasArts. Now, even with the wordcount, the game still shouldn't have been as lacklustre in story and dialogue as it was because they used MOST of their wordcount on the in-game help/manual, details which should have gone into the game's actual manual, but didn't. As I recall, the manual was pretty thin and bereft of all the necessary references to play the game that a lot of people including me had to consult to an online SRC printout. Troika could have managed their wordcount better by not expending most of it in the useless in-game manual and all of the dialogue in the first town. Cutting out item descriptions (or even their effects!) is unfathomably stupid. Way to scare away the newbies, there.

3) What was the deal with "Identify"? Having to identify potions was a complete mess and Troika defended it by calling it a feature (see: atari forums) whcih was working as intended. The 3 scariest words you will ever hear out of a developer's mouth.

4) Crappy voiceovers were wholly Troika's fault (see: apology by sound director in atari forums), not Atari's. Troika believed they could do well on their own by hiring non-SAG actors and ended up with the mess they got. Atari has employs an in-house group of SAG-affilated (read: this is very important for quality control) actors that provide the voiceovers for most of their games, and their work, although nowhere as superb as Interplay's, is a whole lot better than what Troika came up with. Kohan II and Demonstone (see the trailer) uses them, and they're both pretty good from an aural perspective.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I would love to see both - RT and TB in their game

Imo, RT and TB are mutually exclusive design-wise. Each calls for different maps, different number of enemies, different approaches, etc. Both systems in one game ensure that at least one gets fucked. Here is a good post Saint made:

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1740

If you designed the game for turn based, you have to have different numbers and difficulty of creatures than you can have in real time. In turn based, you can get away with putting hordes of nasty creatures for the player all around for him to deal with. Now, try that in real time. The result is a dead player!

Don't believe it? Well, it should be obvious, but fire up Fallout or Fallout 2 and check out some of the key battles.. Navarro, Adytum, taking down a New Reno family(without APA, you cheaters), Mariposa in either game, and so on. Now check out Fallout Tactics in real time. Notice the difference in how many creatures there are? Or how tough they are? Just for kicks, flip it over to TB in FOT and notice how easy the game gets. The levels were designed with real time in mind as was the AI, in turn based, it's a slaughter.

It's just pretty damned funny that people think that a game can have both modes of play and still work the exact same way in both.

EDIT:

It's kind of funny seeing JE Sawyer talk about how Fallout 3 will favor turn based over real time, but include both.

Design a combat situation for the turn based play that's challenging and you'll end up with a bunch of ADHD 'tard boys with dead characters bitching about the difficulty. Design that same scenario with a really smart AI that considers a good chunk of what's going on around it, you'll end up with a bunch of ADHD 'tard boys with dead characters who bitch about the difficulty AND how fucking slow the thing runs.

 

[Vault Dweller]

1) 18 months is a relatively decent period of time

I believe that an average development time for any decent game is much more then that.

...and a period that Troika agreed on before taking the contract

Very likely they had a dungeon crawler in mind, because anything else is impossible under the terms. Granted, they could have made a better game overall, but comparing it to BG, like Volourn did, is unfounded.

As I recall, the manual was pretty thin and bereft of all the necessary references to play the game that a lot of people including me had to consult to an online SRC printout.

I'm not sure what manual you've got, but in NA there was a nice and very detailed 175-page manual that provided more then enough info to play the game. If you disagree, list an issue that you couldn't find help with in the NA manual.

Troika could have managed their wordcount better...Cutting out item descriptions (or even their effects!) is unfathomably stupid.

Agree with both.

3) What was the deal with "Identify"? Having to identify potions was a complete mess and Troika defended it by calling it a feature (see: atari forums) whcih was working as intended. The 3 scariest words you will ever hear out of a developer's mouth.

Well, it was working as intended, but it wasn't much fun, that's for sure.

4) Crappy voiceovers were wholly Troika's fault (see: apology by sound director in atari forums)

Didn't know that.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I got a fucking booklet. Great Australia/Asia release!

Anyway, if they put that stuff in the manual then they probably shouldn't have put it in the in-game help. That's where all the wordcount went.

 

[Kamaz]

Of course, its challange. But still, I think it is possible. One of the ways is to bring the choice of TB or RT in the very beginning of the game. Then, put triggers in locations [random encounters are even easier to modify] so you get different game with different amounts of critters. E.g., the quest "kill the deathclaw mother" in real-time would maybe mean 1 deathclaw but in TB - kinda three. Or, maybe, in real time you have dislocated those critters in greater distances between each other and so on. Od course, programmers had to sweat a bit, but, hey, no pain, no gain. Besides, its not rocket science, just some wise "put_critters" functions would do the trick.

Other way is to tweak creatures stats - e.g. - in real time make them less powerfull. On shot - on kill, just like in Crimsonland. This way you can launch great amount of oponent towards PC and allways will be great chance of surviving. Besides, it would be fun - bum, bum bum!

Or, elseways, you can allways make TB easier, by bringing RT amount of creatures towards PC. Its the cheapest way and, I guess, would work. TB and RT actually were quite balanced in Arcanum or FoT[I played Awakening MOD], so, I guess it is not impossible. Bear in mind, that Arcanum is Troikas game, so they have some ideas allready on what to do and what not.

 

[Volourn]

VD, VD, BD. Youa re gaining more holes in your arguments than a waterballoon that been poked once. I am emabrassed on your behalf and I don't get embarrassed easy.


" So, TB=unlimited time to decide? Cool."

Most certainly is the default part of it, and since we are comapring TOEE and NWN; it very much is a aprt of which game is clsoer to the D&D 'ideal". Like I said, any DM worth his salt would not all someone unlimited time to make decision - not in pnp and not in video games ... even pause n play follows that track unfortunately but not to the same degree has tb combat on PC has traditionally been (POR2, shockingly) is one of the rare ones that got that right. WOWSERS!


"Well, if Troika was offered more then 18 months, they too could have made a larger game."

Hello, Captain Obvious. However, they weren't. Deal with it.


"So, they didn't do anything (and thus wasted no Interplay's money) during the first 4 years, but then added 73 people to those 2 lonely guys and quickly made it in a year after they split. Yeah, makes sense."

Extremism. You gotta love it.The bottom lien her eis you stated that Interplay helped BIO make the game for 5 years which is plainly bwrong and therefore a lie. Espicially since they split up over a year before NWNs' release. Stop lying. That is all.


"Ask yourself one question: if there was no Interplay, where would Bio be with their lousy (judging by combat) RTS game?"

Live in your fantasy world if you choose to. I live in the real world. I only play fanatsy games. Your question is dumb. I am debating FACTS; not WHAT IFS.


"Granted, they could have made a better game overall, but comparing it to BG, like Volourn did, is unfounded."

I alreayd said you were right. Afterall, BIO was a former medical software company making just its second game and first RPG while Troika was making its second game and at the time its big boy had 10+ years experience in the gaming field. ther eis no comparison. Troiak should have done better than BIO easy. They didn't. Period.


"I believe that an average development time for any decent game is much more then that."

Bull.


P.S. the TOEE manual was very good which just amde the wasted words in the actual game even more asanine.


Next.

 

[Sol Invictus]

If Troika were given 6 years and a budget of 50 million dollars they could create the best RPG ever. This is why Troika is the best company in the entire industry.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I am emabrassed on your behalf...

Thanks, I knew I could count on you.

" So, TB=unlimited time to decide? Cool."

Most certainly is the default part of it

Do you mind if I borrow your word? WOWSERS! lol

"Well, if Troika was offered more then 18 months, they too could have made a larger game."

Hello, Captain Obvious. However, they weren't. Deal with it.

I don't have to deal with it. I've actually managed to accept ToEE for what it was and enjoy it. Since you are the one who compared it to BG, you are the one who needs to accept that they weren't offered more and deal with it.

Extremism. You gotta love it.The bottom lien her eis you stated that Interplay helped BIO make the game for 5 years which is plainly bwrong and therefore a lie. Espicially since they split up over a year before NWNs' release. Stop lying. That is all.

I'm sorry. 4 years. Not 5. Big fucking deal. That is all. Game over. I win. Next lol

Live in your fantasy world if you choose to. I live in the real world.

I hate breaking it to you (I hope you are sitting down), but internet message boards aren't the real world. :shock:

Your question is dumb.

No, your assumption that Troika could have done better then Bio is dumb. (hey, we've almost reached "you dumb - no, you dumb" debate technique, it's simple, but never fails)

"I believe that an average development time for any decent game is much more then that."

Bull.

Got any numbers readily available? Oh, I forgot, proofs are "for those who have something to prove". :shock: lol
Well, at least your bs is entertaining, so, carry on.

 

[Vault Dweller]

If Troika were given 6 years and a budget of 50 million dollars they could create the best RPG ever. This is why Troika is the best company in the entire industry.

What are you mumbling about, Rex?

 

[Volourn]

"you are the one who needs to accept that they weren't offered more and deal with it."

Yeah, it's horrible that I expected better writing, characters, story, role--playing, challenging combat, less bugs, etc.,e tc. My bad. My bad for epxecting thsoe who created Arcanum, and HELPED create Fallout 1 and 2 would know hwo to make a game. Truly my bad. Indeedy.


"I'm sorry. 4 years. Not 5. Big fucking deal. That is all. Game over. I win. Next lol"

I'm glad youa dmitted you lied. I win. Thank you for admitting that.


" but internet message boards aren't the real world"

Good thing I don't live in internet message boards.


"No, your assumption that Troika could have done better then Bio is dumb."

Yeah, my bad again. I should expect Troika to do worse or at least as good as BIO. My bad. I'll lower expectations for them then. I didn't think a fanboy like you has such low expectations for them. Youa ccept they suck so you expect they'll suck, and you'll be happy they suck. Uhuh.


"Got any numbers readily available?"

Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Hahahahahahahahaha. Hahahahahahahaha.
Hahahahahahahaahahahaha. Hahahahahahahahaha. Hahahahahahahaha.

I'd go on but a waste. I always find it hilarious when someone demands someone to "provide numbers or links" when they have provided ZERO themsleves.


HAHAHAHAHAH!


PS. Don't bother now. You had your chance and blew it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yeah, it's horrible that I expected better writing, characters, story, role--playing, challenging combat, less bugs, etc.,e tc. My bad. My bad for epxecting thsoe who created Arcanum, and HELPED create Fallout 1 and 2 would know hwo to make a game. Truly my bad. Indeedy.

Are you digging out again? You are right that ToEE could have been a better game, but you were comparing BG to ToEE without considering the circumstances, and that's where you were wrong. Anyway, keep digging, see you on the other side lol

"I'm sorry. 4 years. Not 5. Big fucking deal. That is all. Game over. I win. Next lol"

I'm glad youa dmitted you lied. I win. Thank you for admitting that.

No problem, always happy to help a friend. Try not to think that it doesn't change my point, focus on your little victary and think happy thoughts.

" but internet message boards aren't the real world"

Good thing I don't live in internet message boards.

Hmm, it's worse then we thought. He doesn't understand where he is.

I didn't think a fanboy like you has such low expectations for them.

Fanboy? Me? You've gotta be kidding.

Youa ccept they suck so you expect they'll suck, and you'll be happy they suck. Uhuh.

I don't accept that they suck. My expectations are based on factors influencing the situation. I didn't expect another Arcanum from ToEE because of the short dev cycle. I don't expect much from Bloodlines because of the FP focus and that vampire thing. However, I know what they are capable of (based on FO and Arcanum), and I will patiently wait untill circumstances to deliver a game of such a caliber are right.

"Got any numbers readily available?"

Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Hahahahahahahahaha. Hahahahahahahaha.
Hahahahahahahaahahahaha. Hahahahahahahahaha. Hahahahahahahaha.

I'd go on but a waste. I always find it hilarious when someone demands someone to "provide numbers or links" when they have provided ZERO themsleves.

Fair enough, I'll get you the numbers. As for the link, you claimed specific things when I asked for a link. In such a case, it's up to a person who claims something to back it up, is it not?

PS. Don't bother now. You had your chance and blew it.

Are you afraid that you'd have to dig your way out AGAIN? I thought that by now you've become good at it, no?

 

[Avin]

i like volo. specially when he try to show us that bioware is THE GREATEST THING in the world. really, i like volo.

 

[Sol Invictus]

He's not actually, Avin. Read his posts. He seems to have more enthusiasm over Troika and is defending their capabilities as talented developers than most of us who participated in this thread.

The fact is simple, though. Troika's lost their edge, and will likely turn into a 'mainstream' developer that will work on whatever licenses they can get their hands on, instead of doing games they want to be doing. Like some obese nerd who will fuck anything on two legs.

 

[Whipporowill]

He seems to have more enthusiasm over Troika and is defending their capabilities as talented developers than most of us who participated in this thread.

You have got to be shitting me Rex, it's basically you alone that's been towing the anti-Troika train in this tread. Whatever Volourn thinks it's irrelevant, as it opinion's always factual.