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No Rest For The Wicked - Isometric Action RPG with Unprecedented Verticality from The Maker of Ori Games - now on Early Access

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
8,047
Okay, so one thing that bugs me: entering Early Access requires that devs list how long they think the game will be in EA. As in specific time periods of weeks, months, years.

These guys really did a "please refer to our roadmap."

The roadmap is just:

1713494699398.png


"Further updates lol" Actually fucking hilarious. There's vague and then there's this.

Did these guys actually pull this street con-type gambit, or am I missing something here? What time period are we looking at here? Is this the next 7-year forever project?
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
13,887
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Okay, so one thing that bugs me: entering Early Access requires that devs list how long they think the game will be in EA. As in specific time periods of weeks, months, years.

These guys really did a "please refer to our roadmap."

The roadmap is just:

View attachment 48892

"Further updates lol" Actually fucking hilarious. There's vague and then there's this.

Did these guys actually pull this street con-type gambit, or am I missing something here? What time period are we looking at here? Is this the next 7-year forever project?
Full release on Tuesday.
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,089
I played for a couple more hours tonight and I'm getting close to putting this one back on the shelf for awhile. Maybe a long while.

The #1 thing that is annoying me right now is the game gives you no room to experiment and try new things, which is very important for RPGs especially in the beginning. There is no manual and the in-game documentation is poor, so you don't have good information up front to guide decision making. And the game only has one persistent save per character, so you can't just try something to see how it works and then reload.

For example, here's a screenshot from one of the vendors.

KSLbPYq.png


What does the "Pulse of Health" rune do, you may be wondering? Good question. Unfortunately, the game is not interested in telling you. I was able to suss out that runes can be slotted into weapons to give them the special abilities that are powered by focus. But as far as this specific rune's ability? You just have to buy it and find out, most likely wasting your money in the process.

Of course given that the loot respawns, you can always go out and grind for more cash, which brings me to my #2 complaint: the crafting and basebuilding elements, usually safely skippable in most RPGs, seem to be so deeply embedded into this game's DNA that they are almost mandatory. That's because you don't really find that many good items out in the wild, and vendors have very little to sell unless you grind resources to upgrade them. To clue you in on how horrible this actually is, look at this.

LEzxtO5.png


This is the list of upgradeable buildings so far. Each of the 5 shops, plus the inn and the gallows, requires 10 wood and 5 copper to upgrade. Harvesting a resource node gives you -- wait for it -- 1 material. ONE. So if you want to upgrade all of this shit, you need to gather 105 nodes (with each taking no less than 6 button presses to collect). Even if I had explored every corner of the first few areas and harvested all I could find, I wouldn't even have half of that.

Keep in mind this is just for the first upgrade. I upgraded the smithy already and it's clearly just the first of what I will suspect be at least two upgrades, possibly more. Once you're done grinding for pine, there's spruce... copper is replaced by iron... you get the point. Grind, grind, grind.

It's funny too, because the narrative behind this also makes no sense. Some random NPC called a "Maker" comes up to you and is like "well clearly you love our city here, how's about we go about rebuilding it together?" Like bitch, I am a visitor who just arrived here, presumably to fight the darkspawn er pestilence since I am a Grey Warden uh I mean Cerim. I have no reason to give a fuck about any of you people, this is just where my mission is. And yet it's clear that the politics of this world are going to be front and center to the story -- which quite frankly I can already tell is on a very cliche and current year (TM) trajectory -- and none of the quests I've picked up since getting to the city have anything to do with fighting the evil monsters.

Finally, and I will admit this is purely personal and a pet peeve of mine, but the game is a textbook case of what I call "Cyseal syndrome". Named after the most annoying location in the history of video games, it means you spend a ton of time running back and forth across a giant fucking town, while a bunch of flamboyant asshole NPCs shout the same repeated barks at you over and over and OVER AND FUCKING OVER again. After a few hours of this you are exhausted at the sight and sound of this place, and would love to never see it again. But the game is centered around it for a long stretch and you have no choice but to keep slogging through it in order to progress.

Anyway, I guess that's enough bitching for now. Suffice to say I should not have D1P'd this, and I wouldn't recommend anyone else buy it right now either. Maybe it will eventually be a good game, but today, it's really not. I do think there is still potential here, especially with the multiplayer aspect, but there are so many frustrating and glaring design issues here that it leads me to believe the developers don't have a good handle on RPGs and what makes them fun to play.
 

Terenty

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1,471
Watch this game go down the drain with very valuable early access "feedback".

After first patch:

"Huge improvements already!. This is my first time playing a Soul-like game and I was frustrated by difficult mechanics on top of frustrating skill issues on my part . This should make my gaming a lot easier. Thanks and looking for more."

Lol
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
13,887
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Watch this game go down the drain with very valuable early access "feedback".

After first patch:

"Huge improvements already!. This is my first time playing a Soul-like game and I was frustrated by difficult mechanics on top of frustrating skill issues on my part . This should make my gaming a lot easier. Thanks and looking for more."

Lol
Fuck.
 

tritosine2k

Erudite
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
1,786
With art direction like this a mobile gaym is the right fit, slopsoomers don't realize.
 

tritosine2k

Erudite
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
1,786
With art direction like this a mobile gaym is the right fit, slopsoomers don't realize.
Not in next 5 years if this shit barely works on average gaming PCs.

They just need to do true isometric like D2:R, not the usual cyborgboy95-topic-opener perspective "isometric" , then they can preload assets by the boatload. But that's not your usual suspect unreal/unity marketplace stuff.

It's more of a problem mobile is not used with external displays (you can even connect kb+m to).
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
8,047
The best part is, the devs have allegedly intended this to be a D4/PoE killer

It's also allegedly why its getting such mixed reviews. Apparently they marketed it towards a lot of the Diablo/POE audience, who bought the game expecting a similar experience.

Also there's a huge amount of mechanics I hate, including anything to do with grindy durability and crafting.

They were probably too haughty with their claims of "revolutionizing" ARPGs.
 

motherfucker

Educated
Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
357
It's weirdly unfocused. They probably(correctly) assumed "top-down soulslike" would not be the most exciting pitch, so they focused on a market that's largely untapped. Except the game clearly wasn't intended for that market. It feels like the devs never quite decided what they were going for, thus the MMO tree chopping and whatnot, and marketing just tried to do their best with the mess they had to work with.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
8,047
It's weirdly unfocused. They probably(correctly) assumed "top-down soulslike" would not be the most exciting pitch, so they focused on a market that's largely untapped. Except the game clearly wasn't intended for that market. It feels like the devs never quite decided what they were going for, thus the MMO tree chopping and whatnot, and marketing just tried to do their best with the mess they had to work with.

It's a narrative-driven soulslike with beautiful painterly style graphics (if you're into that kind of thing).

That's clearly what it is.

Not everything has to be goddamn hitting trees to farm wood like some open world survival crafting bullshit.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,507
It's weirdly unfocused. They probably(correctly) assumed "top-down soulslike" would not be the most exciting pitch, so they focused on a market that's largely untapped. Except the game clearly wasn't intended for that market. It feels like the devs never quite decided what they were going for, thus the MMO tree chopping and whatnot, and marketing just tried to do their best with the mess they had to work with.
The gathering/crafting stuff is in the game so it has some real content, exploring shit and doing 10s combat every 5 minutes gets old fast.
And there are no real Diablo like mechanics or cRPG mechanics.

It seems for a proper Diablo Dark Souls mix we are still going to be waiting for PoE2.
 

Machocruz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
4,542
Location
Hyperborea
The stones on them to claim they are going to reinvent ARPGs lol. Especially when all their ideas are derivative of games that have a lot wannabes already. I liked Ori, but it was bog standard metroidvania with great art. They don't strike me as the reinventing type, but we'll see.
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,089
Zanzoken confirmed for lactose intolerance

Am I really the only one who gets exhausted with trekking back and forth across the same map and hearing the same NPC dialogue shouted over and over again?

I finally turned the voices off in D:OS and I should check if it's possible to do here too.
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
13,887
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Zanzoken confirmed for lactose intolerance

Am I really the only one who gets exhausted with trekking back and forth across the same map and hearing the same NPC dialogue shouted over and over again?

I finally turned the voices off in D:OS and I should check if it's possible to do here too.

Whenever sound in a game irks me enough, I just drop master volume to nil or close to and play something on a second screen like music, podcasts, or news.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
15,175
Location
Eastern block
There is no manual and the in-game documentation is poor, so you don't have good information

...

What does the "Pulse of Health" rune do, you may be wondering? Good question. Unfortunately, the game is not interested in telling you.

You should play some Wizardry 6
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
15,175
Location
Eastern block
Let's see why Diablo II is still the benchmark,

- Well done art direction that's hard to dislike. No oversized heads, big eyes, white teeth, but mature gothic horror. Back in the day everyone played Diablo, including your sister or grandma.
- Skills that feel good and crisp even after 20 years. Look at Zeal. It has no particle effects of other VFX. Just really well made foley effects and animation. It had a very satisfying CHUNK CHUNK CHUNK sound like you were really hacking into flesh and the monsters went ER AGH URGH with each hit, then a loud satisfying death scream when they die. Today, devs are obsessed with making skills *look* good, and that's all, none is trying to make them truly *feel* good.
- Good class identity and balance. None of them really felt samey or bland.
- The inventory is pretty to look at. We spent hours just sorting out stuff. Item icons are vivid and realistic. The inventory is like a minigame in itself. Celtic motifs on UI banners and other elements are never boring to see.
- Nearly every monster had a unique mechanic linked to it. Some monsters explode, the others have a "charging" type of attack, some multiply when you kill them, etc. We had fun without dodge rolls and Soulslike bosses, can you imagine.
- Lighting in interiors was really good. You always wondered what's in the next room. Color palette was grounded and supported this feeling of a doomed world with an uncertain future. It felt like you would get raped by monsters if you leave town. Can't do that if your game is full with wild, zany pink colors.
- Diablo revolutionised system design. Skill trees, the red and blue mana "blobs", item parameters. For better or worse, but it did revolutionise it. So no one is going to play the same thing over and over again. They need to come up with something new, but not in a politically deranged, SJW type of way.

To summarize, it's about creating a feeling. When you do that, everything and anything in your game will feel iconic. But there are so, so many things that go into that. Nowadays devs don't put as much thought into it as they used to. I'm probably forgetting some myself.
 
Last edited:

Saint_Proverbius

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2002
Messages
14,131
Location
Behind you.
Let's see why Diablo II is still the benchmark,
Another thing is that even though there's a lot of farming, it never seemed like the game was wasting your time. The procedural generation of levels and periodic waypoints go a long way towards this feeling. You might have to go down several levels in a dungeon in order to farm what you want, but since you're navigating a new dungeon, it's a different situation each time. You don't have to walk through the same thing over and over again, so there's a bit of exploration each run.
 

Harthwain

Arcane
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,487
It seems for a proper Diablo Dark Souls mix we are still going to be waiting for PoE2.
What do you mean by "Diablo Dark Souls mix"? Diablo is obviously hack'n'slash and Dark Souls is an action game. How you want to mix them together in a way that Dark Souls doesn't do already?

Am I really the only one who gets exhausted with trekking back and forth across the same map and hearing the same NPC dialogue shouted over and over again?
I'd say it is normal/expected to come back to "base" in these games (no matter if we look at Diablo or Dark Souls). But it sounds like they should allow for some shortcuts/portals/whatever to cut down on the needless travel back and forth.
 

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