Decline Now that the dust has settled, can we admit that Disco Elysium is decline?

[Jenkem]

speaking of CYOAs, they are soon to be dead
https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/9/...ch-io-trademark-infringement-takedown-notices

The Choose Your Own Adventure publishers are trying to get the phrase banned

souls like, roguelikes and xcom likes are next

this is the real reason people say this is an rpg

 

[Haba]

Disco Elysium is a great RPG, and uncontested GOTY.

Anyone who claims otherwise is a poseur faggot who should be tarred and feathered.

 

[Valky]

Disco Elysium is a great RPG, and uncontested GOTY.

Anyone who claims otherwise is a poseur faggot who should be tarred and feathered.

Haba
Harbinger of Decline

 

[Lady_Error]

In Disco Elysuim you roleplay through dialogue trees, skill checks, perks and dice rolls

Adventure game.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, 2019 PEOPLE... GO PLAY ADVENTURE GAMES! EDUCATE YOURSELVES FIRST!

Why does it matter so much whether something is called an RPG or an adventure game (with RPG elements)?

Just look at the Codex Top 100: There are many "RPG's" there that are really action games (with RPG elements) or strategy games (with RPG elements).

Yet it is the adventure games (with RPG elements) where you draw the line and go berserk?

 

[Haba]

Disco Elysium is a great RPG, and uncontested GOTY.

Anyone who claims otherwise is a poseur faggot who should be tarred and feathered.

Haba
Harbinger of Decline

I'm the definite authority around all things RPG and rape around those parts, whipper-snapper.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...s-you-have-finished.68557/page-2#post-1928892

I've shown you mine so now you show me yours.

 

[Jenkem]

where you draw the line and go berserk?

when a cabal of people start claiming that the adventure game (with RPG elements) is the best thing to happen to crpgs in a long time and how they all should be in the future.

 

[barghwata]

In Disco Elysuim you roleplay through dialogue trees, skill checks, perks and dice rolls

Adventure game.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, 2019 PEOPLE... GO PLAY ADVENTURE GAMES! EDUCATE YOURSELVES FIRST!

It's an adventure/RPG hybrid. Honestly this whole "a game doesn't have combat = it's a visual novel" attitude that so many codexers have has literally become a meme at this point.

 

[Trashos]

Games like DE are very dangerous trojan horses that normalize anti-gameplay and anti-combat sentiment and promote the false idea that we want ideologically driven "stories" in our games; there is nothing more divisive than this, and it is objectively a net loss to design games this way. We must be very vigilant about this, or these people will usurp our genre right under our noses and remove everything good about it and leave it only a soulless husk that exists only as a vehicle for their pathologies.

I do not see the danger you see. In fact, I see it as a good thing. If designers do not want to design combat, good well-thought out combat, I say good riddance. They will make way for designers who are actually into the same kind of thing that we are.

If, on the other hand, you care about games being called RPGs while they do not fit our definition, I personally see no reason to care about that. I say let them have their "RPGs", what I care about is me having mine.

 

[S.torch]

remotely close to achieving either RPG combat or RPG exploration

Again, Disco Elysium doesn't need "combat", this is not an action game, is a role-playing game, so the core of the gameplay is the role-playing. This is self-evident. You have every right to enjoy games like the old Dungeon and Dragons, overly focused around vermin extermination, but trying to turn every RPG on that is uninteresting and soulless.

 

[Urthor]

I feel like the core attraction of Disco Elysium to a lot of people is that it is writing unencumbered by mediocre gameplay.

It's totally different to say Witcher 3, which has writing and C&C but is encumbered by some action RPGey or whatever you call it gameplay that is not exactly outstanding in hindsight, and that's attached to the judgement of the game.

Meanwhile Disco only being writing, even writing without the semi-extinct C&C, means it's a smaller target. There's a lot less to hate and turn off the Codex when there isn't gameplay to complain about.

 

[Jenkem]

Again, Disco Elysium doesn't need "combat", this is not an action game, is a role-playing game, so the core of the gameplay is the role-playing. This is self-evident. You have every right to like games like the old Dungeon and Dragons, overly focused around vermin extermination, but trying to turn every RPG on that is uninteresting and soulless.

You might be onto something if DE even had the ability to get into combat as a natural result of ROLE-PLAYING, but unfortunately you can't. By eliminating the threat of combat you are eliminating the chance for true ROLE-PLAYING. Even in tabletop games focused more on social aspects like Vampire: The Masquerade there is always the chance of combat happening, and the risk to your character is palpable BECAUSE there is a chance for combat, which adds to the ROLE-PLAYING aspect. Because WoD is an actual role-playing system, not a marketing term to sell a digitized narration simulator.

 

[Lilura]

Do not listen to anyone who espouses ideas like this for they hate RPGs.

Storyfags would indeed hate RPGs -- if they knew what they were and had played any, that is.

If designers do not want to design combat, good well-thought out combat, I say good riddance.

Good riddance to bad rubbish, you mean. You must tell the storyfag what you think of them as you give them the bum's rush.

 

[Trashos]

Lilura, I read you article mentioned above. I expected a hit piece, but that was a pretty fair assessment. Not bad, and I am 99% sure that even MCA would agree with most of that.

 

[Harthwain]

The only reason it gets as much traction around here is twofold: First, the absolutely abysmal state of CRPGs (or CRPG-Likes in DE's case) and second, the propaganda efforts of the Disco cabal of communists, socialists, and anarcho-syndicalists. These people are willing to lie, cheat and steal if it means duping another person into accepting their ideology.

1) It has great writing and it does have enough RPG elements taken from tabletop for the 96% of the people to call it an RPG game. It's as simple as that.
2) "The propaganda efforts"? Yeah... It can't be that Disco is just a great game to play/experience/whatever. It must be a conspiracy of communists, socialists and anarcho-syndicalists! We must be VIGILANT, bröthers!

They claim the game has a plethora of ideologies to choose from, but the only ideas that are written with any honesty are leftist ideologies, whereas anything to the right of Stalin is derided and clearly written by people whose entire understanding of right-wing ideologies comes from /r/chapotraphouse memes.

Spoiler

If you learn more about the Revolution you get to know that it was caused by tzaareth plague: a potato-inducted brain-eating virus.

Games like DE are very dangerous trojan horses that normalize anti-gameplay and anti-combat sentiment and promote the false idea that we want ideologically driven "stories" in our games; there is nothing more divisive than this, and it is objectively a net loss to design games this way. We must be very vigilant about this, or these people will usurp our genre right under our noses and remove everything good about it and leave it only a soulless husk that exists only as a vehicle for their pathologies.

You either can't be serious or you didn't play the game.

The game is in no way "ideologically driven". You're free to do whatever, including vehement rejection of any ideology offered. You would have known that, had you played the game. And if you didn't, then you should at least watch it to be able to understand how it works, before making comments about it, because what you say doesn't really make sense. I mean; "We must be very vigilant of the pathology"? Geeee... You hold political ideology in so high regard that you fail to see that the majority of people don't really care about it.

 

[Valky]

Again, Disco Elysium doesn't need "combat", this is not an action game, is a role-playing game, so the core of the gameplay is the role-playing. This is self-evident. You have every right to enjoy games like the old Dungeon and Dragons, overly focused around vermin extermination, but trying to turn every RPG on that is uninteresting and soulless.

We could use some vermin extermination right about now for members supporting this decline.

 

[Daemongar]

Completely did not see this thread coming.

 

[Lilura]

I read you article mentioned above. I expected a hit piece, but that was a pretty fair assessment.

I try to be fair and even-handed, but it isn't easy when the other side are vociferous fanatics, and shitstains.

Not bad, and I am 99% sure that even MCA would agree with most of that.

Maybe. But the 'Dex doesn't. The 'Dex rates PS:T no.1 all-time.

 

[S.torch]

the risk to your character is palpable BECAUSE there is a chance for combat

You... have played Disco Elysium? Your character is constantly at risk. You can "die" or lose even in the beginning of the game, so theres always a thread to your character. Again, if you like the "risk" of being killed by a giant rat in a generic dungeon that's okay, but this is story about a detective in a civilized world, you can't ask for the same mechanics.

I'm starting to think that most people in this thread have not played the game even for a bit.

 

[Daedalos]

Disco Elysium is the game of our year 2019.

It's absolutely an RPG.

Let's review:

- It has unique skills, and complex skill-system deeply intertwinted into the dialogue and actions
- It has fucking DICE-ROLLS, the game even VISUALLY displays said dice-roll in terms of skillchecks and rolls
- It has items and item management
- You play a defined role as a washed up dead-beat cop
- It has numerous skillchecks and unique options in dialogue that is novel to any rpg
- It has a chargen, number crunching and such ofc level/skill ups
- It has C&C, maybe not alot, but it's there and noticeable
- It has a rich story, with excellent writing and worldbuilding
- Has one very well-made and unique combat situation, instead of filled with trash

Most newer "rpg's" released in the past 10 years can't even check 2-3 of the above mentioned criteria
That should settle that dispute right then and there.

Let's move on, fellas.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

No.

 

[Latro]

Disco Elysium is the game of our year 2019.

It's absolutely an RPG.

Let's review:

- It has unique skills, and complex skill-system deeply intertwinted into the dialogue and actions - It is essentially a list of NPCs that activate depending what you check off at char-gen.
- It has fucking DICE-ROLLS, the game even VISUALLY displays said dice-roll in terms of skillchecks and rolls - Dice-rolls doesn't magically make it an RPG.
- It has items and item management - Has do many other sorts of games.
- You play a defined role as a washed up dead-beat cop - Many games have a defined role.
- It has numerous skillchecks and unique options in dialogue that is novel to any rpg - Unique options in dialog or a skill-check system do not make it into an RPG.
- It has a chargen, number crunching and such ofc level/skill ups - Has do many other sorts of games.
- It has C&C, maybe not alot, but it's there and noticeable - Has do many other sorts of games.
- It has a rich story, with excellent writing and worldbuilding - has nothing to do with anything
- Has one very well-made and unique combat situation, instead of filled with trash - the one single gimmicky combat scene does not make up for a combat-less game

Most newer "rpg's" released in the past 10 years can't even check 2-3 of the above mentioned criteria
That should settle that dispute right then and there.

Let's move on, fellas.

Let's move on. The best you have is that DE has dice-rolls. It's over. It's not an RPG.

 

[Jenkem]

You... have played Disco Elysium? Your character is constantly at risk. You can "die" or lose even in the beginning of the game, so theres always a thread to your character. Again, if you like the "risk" of being killed by a giant rat in a generic dungeon that's okay, but this is story about a detective in a civilized world, you can't ask for the same mechanics.

I'm starting to think that most people in this thread have not played the game even for a bit.

Dying from a poor skill check is only a factor in the first 5% of the game, after that you easily have enough points to sustain any damage done and point refilling items are given to you like candy. And for all these alleged risks further along (which can only kill you if you are not paying attention) there is absolutely no action you can take to fight against these risks. There is no scenario where you fail a skill check and so somebody attacks you and you then defend yourself, you are simply punished for failing a skill check.

Selecting an incorrect option and dying because of it is something often seen in old school Adventure games, particularly those published by Sierra.

 

[mondblut]

I feel like the core attraction of Disco Elysium to a lot of people is that it is writing unencumbered by mediocre gameplay.

Yeah. And there is an entire genre dedicated exactly to that purpose. Starts with A, ends with E.

 

[barghwata]

- It has items and item management - Has do many other sorts of games.
- It has a chargen, number crunching and such ofc level/skill ups - Has do many other sorts of games.
- It has C&C, maybe not alot, but it's there and noticeable - Has do many other sorts of games.
- It has a rich story, with excellent writing and worldbuilding - has nothing to do with anything

Yes, just like many sorts of games have combat and exploration and dungeon crawling, what the hell is your point? nothing is an RPG?

 

[Grampy_Bone]

This is ridiculous thread. Everyone here hates on Skyrim as a crappy RPG and it's a 1000x more hardcore than Disco shitstain.

Again, Disco Elysium doesn't need "combat", this is not an action game, is a role-playing game, so the core of the gameplay is the role-playing. This is self-evident.

You're a moron, this is self evident.

Genre gameplay has very little to do with the words used to describe them. Genres are utility words, they refer to games that share similar features.

Look at "FPS." In theory this means any game that includes First Person perspective and shooting. Make sense. Except if you make the movement in the game on-rails. Then it stops being an FPS and becomes a Rail Shooter. This despite "FPS" containing no words pertaining to movement. How odd.

Or the Shmup genre. It means "Shoot em up." So it's the same as an FPS and a Rail Shooter right? Noooope. Shmup actually means a very specific type of game with very distinct features, very little of which correspond to shooting. Instead it's about movement , types of enemies, how the combat is balanced, etc.

Whatever you think Role Playing means is irrelevant. Also using "action" in a way literally no gamer uses it is meaningless. All role playing games feature combat; ergo RPGs are combat games. Take out the combat and it becomes something else; an Adventure Game, Visual Novel, Sim Game, or Walking Simulator.