Game News NWN 2 went gold

[OccupatedVoid]

No, I am not a Sarvis alt.

I will answer your question.

The difference between criticizing a game before it is released with prior RPG experience, having experience with past games made by the developer of the aforementioned unreleased game, having comments posted by forum-goers, and having one's hopes and dreams, consists mainly of opinion.

The opinion of an individual may cause them to bend the situations due their thoughts going through each and every one. It is this circulating of opinions that causes all scenarios to be the same so that they agree with an individual's opinion. These opinions will result in the criticizing of all things that disagree with them;thus, causing an individual to continually bash something.

There is no difference between criticizing a game before it is released with prior RPG experience, having experience with past games made by the developer of the aforementioned unreleased game, having comments posted by forum-goers, and having one's hopes and dreams, as all thoughts and opinions cross boundaries into other scenarios and cause them to change with an individual's opinion.

 

[spacemoose]

hey guys I'm back from the future - nwn2 sucks donkey balls, case closed

 

[Jed]

Very nice equivocation. Have you considered a job in law or marketing?

So, yes, they're both "only" opinion. (You're veering a little to close to existential bullshittery here for my tolerance.) The difference is that one is an eductated opinion (critical approach) and the other is a wishful thinking (fanboi approach).

In the end, I'd rather be cynical than gullible any day.

EDIT- Spacemoose for the win.

 

[Zomg]

If you can't completely alter the ruleset, I don't see how the mods can be any good. D&D is so distinctive I don't see how anything but Forgotten Realms schlock can go with it. My eyes just trip off the screen when all of that pick-a-spell and feat stuff shows up, and all I can hear is the high-pitched chittering of Raistlin-loving teenagers in my ears.

I am getting NWN2 though, because I'm hoping Avellone and Mitsoda wrote some of it.

 

[Shoelip]

If you can't completely alter the ruleset, I don't see how the mods can be any good. D&D is so distinctive I don't see how anything but Forgotten Realms schlock can go with it. My eyes just trip off the screen when all of that pick-a-spell and feat stuff shows up, and all I can hear is the high-pitched chittering of Raistlin-loving teenagers in my ears.

I am getting NWN2 though, because I'm hoping Avellone and Mitsoda wrote some of it.

Odd, in all my time playing D&D I've only played in FR once, and only for about three sessions. Not to mention that Greyhawk, and not FR is basicly the official setting of D&D.

Or by D&D do you mean D&D licenced computer games? Of which FR is certainly the most popular setting but definatelly not the only one by any stretch.

Something you could say that would be acurate is that Bioware only makes D&D licenced games based on FR.

 

[Zomg]

I don't think Raistlin is FR either, yet it's all part of the D&D complex. Elf-Dwarf-Orc derivative-of-derivative fantasy, memorize/forget magic, +blah weapons and armor, feats, an astronomical power curve, and on and on. There are large pieces of setting encoded in the rules, and the rules themselves are completely overbearing. D&D 3 was a lateral move to make it into munchkin monkey bars as opposed to a disconnected rule dump. I honestly don't see how you could make a mod with it all that isn't ridiculous.

 

[kris]

Well supported toolkit = enhanced value.
original campaign = who gives a fuck, if it's cool all the better.

Seriously, I wouldn't even be defending this game if it wasn't for the fact that all of a sudden those "I'm so fucking enlightened and right that it almost HURTS" people were starting to emerge from their glorious chocolate milk pits.

My initial point, exactly. What was your's again?

All studies about the original NWN shows that the majority of players played the official campaign and nothing else.

Anyway, the existance of a mod tool isn't a rememdy for any other bad things in the game. Instead of saying "but it have a mod tool and people will make great tools" you should counter what someone said about what they think is bad in the game. Me in contrary to some others here have preordered the game, but feel no need to mindlessly defend it, especially not before I played it.

 

[Binary]

Why the fuck are some of you guys trying so desperately to pull of the codex trademark "rip it to pieces before it's even released" on this game when some of the evidence suggests that it might actually not be all that bad...?

Short answer: Because it wasn't made by Tim Cain.

Personally, I was an avid online PW NWN player (let me say it again: online, not the horrid OC). So I am not looking forward to NWN2. After a few patches and a few PWs out there, and specially after the DM module is out, I might give it a go.

 

[kris]

Stupid answer: Because it wasn't made by Tim Cain.

Such normal fallacy. Probably brought from you not being around when the Troika games was released. short snippets: Arcanum had horrible combat! TOEE had little roleplaying! Bloodlines was all battles in the end!

that is only the big complaints from members here about games from Tim Cain and his cohorts.

 

[Slylandro]

Well to be fair we're going mainly by track record and purely in terms of RP Tim Cain & friends have delivered more often than BIS/Obsidian. The Codex has good reason to be cynical because, really, aside from PS: T, what else have they made that was so awesome?

 

[jiujitsu]

Is it just me or do Vault Dweller's latest news posts seem a bit optimistic as opposed to the usual pessimistic/sarcastic material.

What did you get laid or something?

I'm trying to read it all as sarcasm, but it's not obvious.

 

[denizsi]

99% of the people here think anything that isn't turn-based and post-apocalyptical sucks

I don't understant where people come from with such bold stupid assumptions. Note: You will have to point out what made you say that.

Already answered. A well supported and powerfull mod kit raises the overall value of the product, especially if a vivid and capable comunity can be more or less taken for granted.
Judging a game like this only by the original content is a way of viewing things. However, NWN was regarded as basically an engine with the tools to create your own "games" with relative ease. There are some awesome modules (|= mods) out there for it. Sorry, but just postulating that my arguments are irrelevant and/or pointless and comanding me to never use them again... kind of doesn't cut it.

Wait, I'm confused, you keep talking about mods all the time, but we are talking about the vanilla game and nothing else. Why the fuck are you still writing here? Mods = 3rd party post-release shit. We are on release and pre-release 1st party here.

Gaining a certain amount of knowledge about a given topic without any prior introduction to it is one of the many skills my current profession required me to develop.

What "introduction", wtf are you talking about? You either read shit about the game and look at the screens, or you don't. Don't give meaningless crap like that. So, you did read something and then looked at the screenshots. Wow, I didn't know that having a sufficiant intelligence to read shit and look at stuff was a professhun!!1

Now let's look at his original post again:

I haven't followed this game's develompent at all

Oh, it figures. He's a psychic.

I don't need to follow a games development for months

Now you will quote where anyone ever said anything about folloıwing development for months, you little fuck. Following a game's development for months doesn't mean a shit. All that comes out in a development cycle is some screenshots, some interviews and some previews, any of which won't take more than a few minutes to look at or read, so you don't actually need teh months!! to follow development and doing any of the two (looking at screens and reading) before the game is out counts as following development in one way or another. Stupid little cunt.

..in order to judge that multiple, decently written, skill based dialogue options are a good thing. Also I do like the looks of the game.
The combat system doesn't bother me. Most of the skill-system related glichtes seem to have been fixed.

TeH UBER professhun at work again!!1

Oh, did I mention it has an improved toolkit and a pretty creative community?

Did I mention there are women with vaginas so tight, men with very small penises will make them happy, and men with penises so big, women with lousy vaginas will be happy with them?

Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you were an asshole

I thought that gaining a certain amount of knowledge about a given topic without any prior introduction to it is one of the many skills your current professhun!!1 required you to develop. HOW CAN YOU NOT REALIZE IT!!1

Worry not. You have 2 more levels to go until you can tell some people are assholes on the spot, though I can not tell how many levels until you can tell you are a dumbfuck yourself. I'm not a psychic obviously.

Did I say I assumed there would be "lots of good mods"? Hmmmm... I don't think so. I said that the ability to make worthwhile mods is a factor in the overall enjoyment of the game. I even threw in a clause for people who cared saying that it's not even a big factor. It is a factor though for many people, whether you like it or not.

He replied to you where you replied to me where I replied to Nedrah with teh Uber Professhun, who said yes, there fucking would.. And it's a factor created by 3rd parties, after the release. Oh crap, you won't understand it anyway.

When you look at a game you also look at it TODAY, not in some hypothetical state [...]

My initial point, exactly. What was your's

again?

Your initial point EXACTLY? Quoting your original post again:

Why the fuck are some of you guys trying so desperately to pull of the codex trademark "rip it to pieces before it's even released" on this game when some of the evidence suggests that it might actually not be all that bad...? You do remember there will be hundreds of quality modules out for it a year from now?

That's SOME backpedalling.

Funny thing is, I reply to Nedrah's retarded comments about future 3rd party mods factoring into game release, then Nael replies to me taking my words out of context and dumbfuckery ensues.

Illiterate fucks.

edit:

Is it just me or do Vault Dweller's latest news posts seem a bit optimistic as opposed to the usual pessimistic/sarcastic material.

What did you get laid or something? Cool

I'm trying to read it all as sarcasm, but it's not obvious.

If we are to believe claims, I think are things to be hopeful about. I'm interested in the glimpse of dialogue we can get from screens and all the interview (or was it a preview) about support for diplomacy, non-combative perks and gameworld politics. I didn't care about the game in one way before I saw those. VD as well as anyone might feel the same way.

 

[suibhne]

I'll proudly step up and say I really loved about 50% of KotOR2, and its other 50% is just an immense embarrassment of lost potential. If MCA & Co. can realize more of that potential in NWN2, I'll be excited. The primary reason for my cynicism about the game is the original NWN, not Obsidian; NWN's OC was bad, SoU was bad, HotU was merely decent, and even the best modules can't get me to ignore the fact that the game poorly implemented D&D rules and has an absolutely sucktastic interface. The good news for my concerns, I guess, is that Obsidian is correcting some of the bad implementation from the first game, and I can only hope they started from scratch with the interface.

 

[Nael]

snip

Was there a point to that whole rant? I feel like I wasted 20 seconds of my life reading what amounted to juvenile name calling, and foul language for the sake of foul language. You call us "illiterate fucks"? That's rich. Grow up, or at least move out of your mother's basement and find something worth caring about as much as you do some stupid game that hasn't even been released yet.

Anyway, the last time I checked if some of us want to discuss what a good toolkit will bring to NWN2, that's our goddamn right so piss off you fuckin fascist.

 

[denizsi]

juvenile name calling, and foul language for the sake of foul language

I hereby declare that I don't think calling people names or using foul language gives me any edge over others nor does it make me feel or look superior, more intelligence or better in any way; that I believe the points I made would be just as legit without the name calling I did just for the sake of having fun.

However, if you believe that name calling and foul language is all it amounted to, then I've done what I've done only rightly so.

Anyway, the last time I checked if some of us want to discuss what a good toolkit will bring to NWN2, that's our goddamn right so piss off you fuckin fascist.

Which was never a point in this thread, you little fucking cunt.

So, if you simply wanted to talk about toolkit, you should've done so without taking my words out of context ( worry not, that wasn't a name calling or foul language ) and keeping the dumbfuckery ( that was ) on with your replies to other people.

Besides, for fuck's sake, who has ever told you not to discuss what a good toolkit will bring to NWN2? in this thread? Where? Stupid cunt. You deserve all that you got to be called in this thread.

 

[Nael]

So, if you simply wanted to talk about toolkit, you should've done so without taking my words out of context

I didn't take your words out of context, because I didn't really care what you had to say to begin with until you made it personal. Keep your nose out of my biz, and I'll do the same.

Besides, for fuck's sake, who has ever told you not to discuss what a good toolkit will bring to NWN2? in this thread? Where? Stupid cunt. You deserve all that you got to be called in this thread.

Your belligerent attitude says it all. If you really find the discussion of the NWN2 toolkit in an NWN2 thread so distracting go find another thread to shit all over or shut the fuck up. You're more than welcome to have the last word in this, but I can tell you I'm done with this retarded arguement because it is serving no purpose other than to spam this thread with worthless flames.

Peace.

 

[Avé]

So, if you simply wanted to talk about toolkit, you should've done so without taking my words out of context

I didn't take your words out of context, because I didn't really care what you had to say to begin with until you made it personal. Keep your nose out of my biz, and I'll do the same.

Besides, for fuck's sake, who has ever told you not to discuss what a good toolkit will bring to NWN2? in this thread? Where? Stupid cunt. You deserve all that you got to be called in this thread.

Your belligerent attitude says it all. If you really find the discussion of the NWN2 toolkit in an NWN2 thread so distracting go find another thread to shit all over or shut the fuck up. You're more than welcome to have the last word in this, but I can tell you I'm done with this retarded arguement because it is serving no purpose other than to spam this thread with worthless flames.

Peace.

Do you live in your mothers basement?

I think so somehow.

By the way, try not lie in your posts - "Anyway, the last time I checked if some of us want to discuss what a good toolkit will bring to NWN2, that's our goddamn right so piss off you fuckin fascist." is crap, you were discussing how having a toolkit added value to NWN1(and presumably 2) and made an utterly undefendably shit single player game value for money and worthwhile.


That's not discussing the toolkit, that's being stupid.

 

[Jed]

I hereby declare "your parents' basement" to be the new Godwin's Law.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Is it just me or do Vault Dweller's latest news posts seem a bit optimistic as opposed to the usual pessimistic/sarcastic material.

What did you get laid or something?

I'm trying to read it all as sarcasm, but it's not obvious.

Don't worry. Most of it is sarcasm, including this very news post. I do have some hopes for NWN 2, and I'm sure it will be the best "RPG with dialogues" in 2006, but:

a) I wasn't impressed with KOTOR 2 overall, even though the dialogue design was pretty good.
b) NWN 2 story sounds silly at best and certain design elements, manifested by the glowing aura in the CE, are questionable.
c) The game was rushed, despite everything Volourn might tell you.

 

[Ladonna]

ahh, the old 'I never bothered to read/ don't care what you said' ending. Natural selection is proven once again. To the basement with you!

I am looking forward to seeing what the game is like. Depending on that, I may buy it.

 

[suibhne]

I hereby declare "your parents' basement" to be the new Godwin's Law.

The only problem is that it's so often appropriate.

 

[Jed]

The only problem is that it's so often appropriate.

Could be, but I think more often than not it's projection.

 

[denizsi]

I didn't take your words out of context, because I didn't really care what you had to say to begin with until you made it personal

So you always quote people you don't care what they are saying. Fucking liar. Look at your own post you first replied to me with, while I've replied to Nedrah:

In what way is this "irrelevant" and "pointless"? By that definition you are saying that moddable content doesn't even exist, so therefore because it does exist it is relevant and it is a valid point. It is a factor in the overall enjoyment of the game. For instance, I seriously doubt anyone would still be playing NWN1 today if it wasn't for the toolkit. The quality of the toolkit is ALSO relevant. The reason I uninstalled Oblivion and gave the game away to a friend of mine is because of the horrible support of the toolkit in comparison to Morrowind. Vanilla Morrowind *sucked*, but with such an awesome modding community for it the game stayed on my HD.

I do agree that the quality of the "vanilla" game is a much larger factor of whether this game is any good or not, but to completely throw out what modding brings to the table is shortsighted to say the least.

So, since you didn't care what I was saying, why the fuck did you reply to me, cunt? And in doing so, you did fucking take my words out of context, cunt.

Nedrah first asks why the average Codexer is so cynic about the game and illogically tries to justify the game with future 3rd party mods.

I reply to him saying that 3rd party mods are irrelevant in judging a game out of the box, because we are talking about the vanilla game, not what it may become in future with 3rd party support.

Then you reply to me, saying that mods are not irrelevant. You also argue with Jim Kata as if people are trying to dismiss modding completely.

You finally say that toolkit is an important factor, but you yourself admit that, in your words, "does a good modding community excuse sloppy development? Fuck no" (oooh, the f-word btw! how mature!).

However, Nedrah is striving to justify anything vanilla with a good modding community, and I was replying to his stand, to which you replied like the retard you are.

Finally see how you took it out of context? And, I still wonder why the fuck do you reply to people you don't care about what they are saying? You can try to dodge and not answer, but that will only show why you are an illiterate dumbfuck. You should at least admit that you misread.

Keep your nose out of my biz, and I'll do the same.

Btw, what's your biz that I'm poking my nose into?

If you really find the discussion of the NWN2 toolkit in an NWN2 thread so distracting go find another thread to shit all over

Again, explain to me with quotes where I ever expressed that I find that discussion distracting or whatever? Nowhere of course! You are making shit up.

or shut the fuck up

Why? Do I not have the right to discuss whatever I want in any thread, like you did?

You're more than welcome to have the last word in this, but I can tell you I'm done with this retarded arguement because it is serving no purpose other than to spam this thread with worthless flames.

Easy to run when cornered, right? Oh wait, I thought you told me to stay out of your teh biz11! or you would do the same? These two statements in the same post!? Holy shit, you are so full of contradictions. And that's why you are a stupid little cunt.

 

[Volourn]

"Well to be fair we're going mainly by track record and purely in terms of RP Tim Cain & friends have delivered more often than BIS/Obsidian."

No, they didn't. Unless you meant they role-played being game devs VERY POORLY. R00fles!

And, no VD, NWN2 was NOT rushed. A game that uses an existing engine that takes 2+ years to make is NOT rushed unless youa re claiming that BG2 was rushed as well!!!

L0L0L0L0L0L0L0L0LLIP0P

 

[Vault Dweller]

And, no VD, NWN2 was NOT rushed. A game that uses an existing engine that takes 2+ years to make is NOT rushed unless youa re claiming that BG2 was rushed as well!!!

Facts:

All BG/IWD games: Infinity Engine
NWN 1: Aurora Engine
NWN 2: Electron Engine.

While the Electron engine is *based* on the Aurora engine, the graphics engine was developed from scratch, and the same's true for the Toolset. So, no, Volourn, it's not exactly like BG2.