Azarkon said:
That's my point: you can throw around generalizations and made-up statistics all day long, but what does it prove or disprove?
Well, if you call them made up, then apparently to you it doesn't prove anything. If you believe them, it proves everything. However, it seems you've taken the "I don't agree with those, so they're fake!" route, hence you don't believe it proves anything.
Nothing. However, your original generalization was to the effect that single-player games offered *better social interaction* than MMORPGs. That's where I called your BS, so let's stick to that instead of baseless generalizations on the player base that you can't prove.
But the player base is the heart of the matter. If the player base didn't "suck", then MMOs would offer better social interaction than single-player games. Unfortunately, that is not the case.
A matter of semantics. One of the functions of MMORPGs is to provide a chat room - that in and of itself makes it better for social interaction. But MMORPGs also provide a context and a set of activities for the purpose of socialization, so that you and your friends aren't standing around talking about the weather.
Right, you running around ferociously clicking on monsters and trying to ignore all the idiots who keep telling you to join their shitty guild.
Each time you socialize with your friends in-game about the game, that's social interaction.
Each time you group with others to accomplish a goal, that's social interaction.
Social interaction is defined as interaction *with other people*. MMORPGs provide that functionality. Single-player games do not - or if they do, it is only within the context of being able to talk about the game with someone else after playing it, and that's not a guaranteed outcome of single-player games in the same way MMORPGs *guarantee* that you'll have to interact with other people, even if it's just being a dick.
So, what if one day you wake up in a lab and a scientist tells you that your entire world, including the people, were all part of a complex algorithm, a matrix-like digital world. No one was real. Would you then say that you've never had a social interaction? I wouldn't. I'd say, "Wow! that's some damn good AI!", then proceed to round-house kick that manipulative son of a bitch in the face. But this isn't about how skilled I am in the art of ass-kickery, it's about social interaction. Two words, each with significant meaning, coming together to create a special phrase. That is what this conversation is about, so please stop trying to steer us off topic.
His first argument is about as bullshit as yours. Namely the claim:
They are therefore better for your social interactions. For they force you to obtain social interaction elsewhere. Such as by actually talking to people in the same physical space.
Is completely unsubstantiated. Last I checked, single-player games were cited as the source of social problems due to its promotion of anti-social introverts glued to their computers.
How is this different than MMOs? If the players weren't anti-social then they would be out making real friends instead of MMO friends. Also, they wouldn't talk like dicks.
[qute]How do we go, therefore, from "a lack of social interaction" to "therefore promotes social interaction" other than inherent bias? By the same argument you might as well say that any anti-social activity inevitably promotes socialization - that argument is baseless if you examine the geeks of America and the otakus of Japan.[/quote]
Them's fightin' words.
As far as his claims of MMORPGs obviating the need for real life socialization, I agree: the risk does exist. But even if a person's social interaction consisted wholly of virtual interaction, that's still more than the person who plays games by himself all day long (as for single-player games being incapable of replacing social interactoin: ha! Tell that to the geeks).
Think about it, you even gave an example before. People meeting friends, spouses, enemies... all in a virtual life and who they might never see for real. People can even make a living completely online now. People are making a living just by buying and selling on ebay. I'm sure you've heard of people selling gold. Put two and two together and think about it. A person sells some gold on ebay. Then, they generate enough cash to start buying and reselling higher end goods. All of a sudden, they're making a steady income without ever leaving their house. They interact only with the MMO people, and MMOs are where they relax. They buy all their food, and everything else, online.
Back to Twin's statement, you can't start this chain reaction by playing single-player RPGs. You have to get outside and go to work.
By the way, where's your criticism of his word choice, or is that a technique you reserve for only people who disagree with you?
I reserve criticism for smartasses.
Again the ignorance. Leveling to max in WoW takes, on average, 10 days of /played time. That's 240 hours. No more than the length of three or four single-player games. Within the context of a year's worth of gaming, we're not talking about a substantive amount.
But with a single player game you can leave for a week and come back. If you leave for a week in WoW, everyone's 20 levels higher than you.
Moreover, your assumption here suggests that unless you "get somewhere" you cannot enjoy a MMORPG, which of course is false, given that multiple sources have shown that many people who play MMORPGs do so for the social value and the gameplay, and not because they're goal-oriented.
They're kleptomaniac collectors and killing machines, you know that. They're fixated on the idea of getting the best stuff and having a strong character. If it was really about "social interaction", the developers would do away with levels and collecting rabbit penises and +13 Armor of Slaying alltogether. They'd make a virtual world that actual suits social interactions and keep it civilized. They'd attract people who aren't retarded 12 year olds.
I know people who met their real life spouses from MMORPGs - and they're living quite happily, mind you. Let's see you meet your real life spouse from a single-player game.
No, I'll meet my real life spouse in real life. I refer you to Rat Keening's post.
Real world conversation usually involves a limited range of vocabulary. What - it's not social interaction unless you speak like a English professor writing his book on Postcolonial Hybridity?
Limited range of vocabulary? On the contrary, my dear friend. There is much vocabulary that is used, and people don't shout abbreviations. Oh yea, and there's the little matter of body language, which makes up more than 70% of social interaction. Tell me, which MMO has body language? And don't bring up that stupid emote shit or whatever it's called. That's nothing.
