Game News Oblivion will wait for the next holiday season

[Revasser]

"Perhaps" is the key work.

I hate when people have the "modders can do EVERYTHING" mentality because they DONT, there are engine limitations and we dont know how the engine works yet ... due to the engine Mark/Recall might be impossible.

Yeah, I agree. "Leave it to the modders" is usually an idiotic response, especially for fundamental stuff. Both for potential technical reasons and reasons of basic intelligence.

 

[Twinfalls]

Well it's certainly wide open gameplay.

Wholly shit! That brings all new meaning to "open-ended."

That's the phrase I was looking for.

Of course, if this was a Bioware game, then, well, I still wouldn't have found...what I'm looking for.

 

[franc kaos]

Why was this directed at me?

Sorry Chefe I read this

Why would you need mark and recall in a game that allows instant transport via the map?

and attributed it to you...

 

[Rendelius]

"Perhaps" is the key work.

I hate when people have the "modders can do EVERYTHING" mentality because they DONT, there are engine limitations and we dont know how the engine works yet ... due to the engine Mark/Recall might be impossible.

Highly unlikely, if they have fast travel and divine intervention.

 

[Rendelius]

"Perhaps" is the key work.

I hate when people have the "modders can do EVERYTHING" mentality because they DONT, there are engine limitations and we dont know how the engine works yet ... due to the engine Mark/Recall might be impossible.

Yeah, I agree. "Leave it to the modders" is usually an idiotic response, especially for fundamental stuff. Both for potential technical reasons and reasons of basic intelligence.

Not when it comes from a brilliant mind *g*

Seriously, if there is a divine intervention spell in the engine, and if there is fast travel, common sense and a slight insight into programming makes a mark/recall spell pretty much doable, don't you agree?

No way for me to tell if it can be done for sure, as you cannot say for sure that it can't be done. But I think there are more pro's than con's.

 

[Chefe]

Sorry Chefe I read this

Sol Invictus

and attributed it to you...

Don't insult me like that.

 

[HardCode]

And as an exploit to get around being over-encumbered.

I have to challenge you on that statement. You couldn't levitate while overencumbered, so I am sure it would have been easy to prevent Recalling if overencumbered. Anyway, it's magic after all. I wouldn't call it an exploit.

 

[HardCode]

And Mark&Recall + Intervention was too powerful. Mark, intervention to a healer, heal, recall back. And other such exploits. I hope they still have Divine Intervention though.

That's what MAGIC is all about dumb ass. This isn't Counter-Strike "OMFG!!11! Teh AWP is n00b! itz unfare! Cheater u AWp!!11!"

 

[Drakron]

Highly unlikely, if they have fast travel and divine intervention.

Fast Travel is a simply script, it simply make the player being loaded to set cordinates in a named cell, same with divine intervention.

Mark REQUIRES the cell name AND cordinates being stored until used.

Its dynamic as the other 2 are static.

 

[Chefe]

I once had a dog named Mark. Then one day he just disappeared. Never saw him again.

 

[Micmu]

I once had a dog named Mark. Then one day he just disappeared. Never saw him again.

Went to bookstore...

 

[Rendelius]

Highly unlikely, if they have fast travel and divine intervention.

Fast Travel is a simply script, it simply make the player being loaded to set cordinates in a named cell, same with divine intervention.

Mark REQUIRES the cell name AND cordinates being stored until used.

Its dynamic as the other 2 are static.

And you seriously think that the scripting language will not allow you to store your current position for late use in a field or variables in some way?

 

[Drakron]

Why not?

Skills are hard coded after all.

 

[Chefe]

Went to bookstore...

I think he left because I had been using him as a steed when I went LARPing.

 

[Shagnak]

Why not?

Skills are hard coded after all.

That does not mean that they aren't parameterised (i.e. have arguments).

And either way they have to look up something from somewhere. A couple of co-ords is no big deal. I doubt a modder couldn't find a work around if it was necessary.

Really, this is trivial stuff.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Highly unlikely, if they have fast travel and divine intervention.

Fast Travel is a simply script, it simply make the player being loaded to set cordinates in a named cell, same with divine intervention.

Mark REQUIRES the cell name AND cordinates being stored until used.

Its dynamic as the other 2 are static.

And you seriously think that the scripting language will not allow you to store your current position for late use in a field or variables in some way?

The multiple mark and recall mods work that way. It wasn't as simple as it sounds, though, because the game would not always load cells correctly when the player is moved that way, so people came up with some tricks to make cells load most of the time. Just one of the things Balor means when he calls MW modding masochistic.

 

[Micmu]

Really, this is trivial stuff.

It's not. Exterior X,Y,Z coordinates are ok (float), but cell IDs are strings.
MW/OB scripting language doesn't have string variables...

 

[Shagnak]

Really, this is trivial stuff.

It's not. Exterior X,Y,Z coordinates are ok (float), but cell IDs are strings.
MW/OB scripting language doesn't have string variables...

Well, that's kinda crappy

Is Oblivion using the exact same scripting language?
If so, I wonder if modders will just use a much simpler variant of the work-around GhanBuriGhan was talking about above (i.e. but just to store one set of coords and one cell ID. And then implement something that is pretty much a clone of the instant travel script but with dynamic/fetched coords and cell).

Edit:
Actually, just found GhanBuriGhan's guide "Morrowind Scripting for Dummies".
Might have a bit of a read.

GhanBuriGhan: is 8th edition the latest version of your guide?

 

[4too]

Scent Marking

Scent Marking



"Divine Intervention" that's too theological, that's too real world political, too Republican.

Get thee behind me ....

...........................


C.:

I once had a dog named Mark. ...

Brilliant solution!

A saline solution!

""Marking"" morphs from the magical to the physiological !

""Scent Marking"' could be an acquired skill, a refined ''taste''.


The healers out there might want to lobby for 'aroma therapy'.



4too


............... Edit


But wait!

If there are no LEAKING RUSSIANS, then how can Oblivion have the plumbing to be on the 'cutting edge' of gaming urology?

No yellow snow for you huskies.

Maybe we can hold our bladders for Ob-2.



4too-2

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Really, this is trivial stuff.

It's not. Exterior X,Y,Z coordinates are ok (float), but cell IDs are strings.
MW/OB scripting language doesn't have string variables...

Well, that's kinda crappy

Is Oblivion using the exact same scripting language?
If so, I wonder if modders will just use a much simpler variant of the work-around GhanBuriGhan was talking about above (i.e. but just to store one set of coords and one cell ID. And then implement something that is pretty much a clone of the instant travel script but with dynamic/fetched coords and cell).

Edit:
Actually, just found GhanBuriGhan's guide "Morrowind Scripting for Dummies".
Might have a bit of a read.

GhanBuriGhan: is 8th edition the latest version of your guide?

Yes, version 8 is the latest and most likely last.
The scripting language will be similar, but of course their will be changes. But not something as spectacular as a switch to objecto oriented programming, unfortunately. I am sure there will be a host of new functions to interct with RAI. Still no string variables, unfortunately, that was confirmed several months ago, and is unlikely to have changed. A very annoying limitation. And of course it means that there are still no "type the answer" style riddles either. Although I assume one could script Krondor-type riddle chests easily enough... Ha, there is an idea!

 

[Shagnak]

not something as spectacular as a switch to objecto oriented programming, unfortunately.

Dang.
Actually I found some interview with some Beth dude ~2001, and he summarises a lot of the limitations of MW scripting, like no string variables, can't make own objects (as in, from scratch, OO-style), can't make own functions etc etc.
Geez. Pretty shitty :D

Oh well, this has spurred me to look further anyways, so I'll still be reading your guide. Maybe it'll get me keen to have more of a play than just placing objects etc like I have already done.

How did those guys do the multiple mark/recalls if they couldn't easily do things like storing strings in variables or some sort of persistent storage? The scripting engine does not even seem to allow easy reading/writing from/to external files...(I could be wrong?)

 

[Chefe]

Ghan, you ever though of applying to Bethesda? You know, to write the manual for the CS? I'm sure their level and quest designers would appreciate it, since Bethesda obviously gives them no support whatsoever. They probably appreciated your Morrowind one.

 

[Rendelius]

Ghan, you ever though of applying to Bethesda? You know, to write the manual for the CS? I'm sure their level and quest designers would appreciate it, since Bethesda obviously gives them no support whatsoever. They probably appreciated your Morrowind one.

Given the quality of his mods, that would be a great idea.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Ghan, you ever though of applying to Bethesda? You know, to write the manual for the CS? I'm sure their level and quest designers would appreciate it, since Bethesda obviously gives them no support whatsoever. They probably appreciated your Morrowind one.

Thanks guys, but I haven't given up on my "real" career yet So for the time being I am happy to keep it a hobby. At least that way I don't need to listen to all of the Codex yelling at me as being another evil incarnate Bethesda Dev

 

[Nutcracker]

Not to sound apologist (again), but I'd be glad to see M&R (and Intervention, and teleportation in general) removed. The gameworld makes no effort to incorporate teleportation by NPCs logically - teleportation would make national borders pretty fucking obsolete, for example, as lo these many sci-fi novels have taught me. Instantaneous communication, strange new military doctrine, and so on. And unless they're willing to flesh out a weird alien world where spatial separation is only tangentially meaningful they should just avoid it and call the old game instances of teleportation dead continuity.

I agree on the mark and recall issue. It also brings up the point of the availability of magic to the masses. I mean going by the Morrowind system if you wanted to capture a fortress you could get your spy in to cast mark, then give recall scrolls to a few soldiers who would then be able to kill people/open the gates. A similar thing could be done in a set-piece battle, getting troops behind enemy lines. Escaping from prison? Too easy. Also makes theft simple. Magic should be more restricted/regulated in the game world to the rich/powerful/nerdy who have the most time to study it...not just have any joe off the street able to use mark and recall scrolls etc.