Oblivion won't be the worst game ever.

[funkbutter]

Re: Pfft.

Me? Fanboy?

Rofl.

Rofl.

Rofl.

Elderscrolls is so far from being my favorite series it's not even funny. Despite the fact that I WoW has more bad qualities than you can shake a stick at, I still like it more than single player games.

PvP > Single player or PvE all day, every day, any day.

Funny, I'm pretty sure Oblivion doesn't have any PvP, but I'll still defend it against people like BRYCE777 who make themselves out to be highclass by talking about scotch and how Ob is mainstream. Oh, and BTW, the fact that the game Fable even exists proves the title of this thread way wrong.

R00fles, ok you are just a passing stranger with a serious brain disorder, then.

I still don't know what you're talking about. Grats me for liking PvP more than PvE becuase it takes skill? WTF?

I soloed Baldurs gate from the initial game to Mellisann in Throne of Bhaal with a Human mage, skill? Not really.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Re: Pfft.

People who are bitching about Oblivion being "Dumbed down" and mainstreamed so that 12 year olds can play it incense me. These people use Morrowind as the basis for their arguments saying that it's not mainstream and it was what OB should have built off of

MW wasn't mainstream? News to me.

THIS IS NOT D&D. GO PLAY BALDUR'S GATE 2.

BG2 is another mainstream RPG. What else you've got?

Radiant AI is "Unimpressive", a "cheap gimmick"? Radiant AI is the future... The future of games, not just RPG's, is Radiant AI. To say it's "Unimpressive" is as silly as comparing Oblivion to something like the Diablo series, Fable, or a D&D game.

Radiant AI is a scripting tool, no more, no less. So, you'd have to wait for emergent gameplay another decade.

Physics are useless in RPG's? It's the physic's system that allows for smart, tactical gameply as evidenced by the springing of a trap in the demo video.

Smart and tactical? You've gotta be kidding. Anyway, I hope you are aware that traps have been implemented many times in many games in the past, so there is nothing new here.

Hey, there's a funny word, IMMERSION. This is the single definetive measuring stick by which an RPG should be measured, how immersive is it? That's the point of an RPG isn't it? To immerse you in a different world.

Uh, no, that's not really the point, and this word is quickly becoming meaningless replacing "we have awesome graphics!".

It just adds to immersion when you have more realistic combat.

Jedi Academy has great *realistic* combat. Oblivion has arcade combat. If you don't understand simple words, I'm afraid I can't explain that to you.

The blood on the sword doesn't hurt either.

How old are you?

The persuasion system sucks? Just because it's not D&D where you click PERSUADE and hope you roll a good number doesn't mean it sucks, dear.

You have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

I think it's the most intuitive system I've seen in a game yet. And again, IT'S STILL SKILL BASED. If your character sucks at it, it's not going to work... The system it uses, however, just furthers the immersion.

It's another arcade system. If you like it, I'm happy for you. I'm sure that there is a Bethesda developer reading the official forum who can really use a blowjob, so....

Finally... I wouldn't care if your character was static from the beginning and you couldn't even change your race/sex/class, the world Oblivion features is the most non-linear, immersive, roleplaying haven of a gameworld ever created, EVER, PERIOD.

Wow. Nice caps. "EVER. PERIOD". Listen, here is a simple fact, you have no fucking clue what non-linear, immersive, or role-playing means. I admire your youthful enthusiasm, and hope that by the time you reach 16 you will develop a better taste in games, but you'd have to work on that, and work hard.

That's what this game does that no other game in history has done.

You have a tendency for drama, do you know that?

D&D games have pretty scenery, but the invisible walls and the fact that you can't traverse steep hills or logs in the way are by no means a posative quality of those games.

You keep mentioning DnD, so I'll bite. What the fuck are you talking about? The Infinity Engine games? The console DA games?

 

[whitemithrandir]

I disagreed with the removal of skills. But seriously.. Oh no they grouped short blade with long blade?! So what? Why does that make the game dumber? Medium armor got mixed into heavy armor? Same thing... doesn't make it dumber.

No, it makes it less complicated. It gives the player LESS choices. It makes his character LESS specialized and more "jack of all trades".

Less weapons? Doesn't bother me... Crossbows in Morrowind were shitty anyway. This COULD be constrewed as dumbing down, so I'll concede this one.

How about the fact that you can't hit people with staffs anymore? (wtf?) Or the fact that there ARE NO SPEARS in the game? Less complications. Less choices. Less specialization. Less roleplay. Dumbing down.

 

[dongle]

Or Frankie.

Hey! I just saw him criticizing Bethesda! Saying he would never ever pay for any of the official mods. Since that's what broke my OB camel's back I actually feel some affinity for the little fucker. (dunno what that makes me) Maybe ya'll opened his eyes?
.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Re: Pfft.

And "smart scripting" is much more then a "gimmick." Npc's that just stand in one spot, or walk back and forth is more then useless, they more then not have no life, story, or meaning. I have to wholeheartedly dissagree with this as well.

Try Ultima or, if you are too young, the Gothic games.

 

[bryce777]

10 more words telling me what an example of a good RPG would be. Why doesn't BRYCE777 do the same? It'd make him look less like someone trying to sound smarter than he is by using bigger words and vague/ambiguous statements and more like someone who actually has something real to say.

I am not a monkey for your amusement.

The irony is this is not a thread about oblivion, but the idiotic fanboys. This seems to have eluded your feeble grasp.

I have made my points in full, not about oblivion so much as the idiots from the TES forums who keep coming here. The same guy with 10 accounts? 10 hivemind members? The devs? Who knows, but it is annoying and stupid.

We have discussed oblivion ad nauseum, and honestly if you don't look at it at face value and laugh yor ass off you either have no idea what an rpg is/hate them, or else you are just a fucking idiot who is totally unable to discriminate or totally unable to perceive reality from the news blurbs.

Basically, oblivion has dialog with NO FUCKING DIALOG. The persuasion minigame nearly had me literally rolling on the floor laughing.

If you want to see why I think oblivion is a stinker, choose any thread at random and start reading.

As for why I don't bother explaining, it's because people like you are exactly the ones it is pointless to explain to, and further I have no desire to sway your tiny mind. You aren't a scotch drinker and never will be, but it is idiotic and ignorant of you to insist your gassy ass st ives shit is the same as single malt scotch.

 

[Chefe]

Or Frankie.

Hey! I just saw him criticizing Bethesda! Saying he would never ever pay for any of the official mods. Since that's what broke my OB camel's back I actually feel some affinity for the little fucker. (dunno what that makes me) Maybe ya'll opened his eyes?
.

No wonder they're making the thing harder to mod for and not releasing any manual for the construction set... they want you to buy their own fucking mods. They know the modders are better at creating a gameworld (in every aspect mind you, from dialogue, to quests... even to graphics) than they are. The dependencies were bad enough in Morrowind, now for all these mods you'll have to pay Bethesda to play something that someone else created for free?

And really, the mods they released for Morrowind were stupid. An enchanted arrow shop? Gimme a break.

Oh and Frankie? He'll buy 'em. He'll buy 'em all.

 

[dongle]

Re: Pfft.

People who are bitching about Oblivion being "Dumbed down" and mainstreamed so that 12 year olds can play it incense me.

Blatant troll, but what the heck, I'll bite.

Most of the hype surrounding this game directly relates to how dumbed down it is. Compass to show you where to go. Voiced short dialogues so you don't have to read. And on and on. Here's one detailed example; One quest involves finding a beggar, any beggar. As soon as you get the quest ever single damn beggar in the game is highlighted on your fast-travel map. You can click on the little markers and go right there. And Pete is -bragging- about how advanced the game is to offer this feature! I ask, is that "immersive" or dumbed down?

I don't share the view that Oblivion is -total- crap. I was looking forward to exploring the world, I -love- pokeing around expansive 3D spaces. It seems to me tho that the foundation of this game is solid, but then it has a layer of idiocy dumped on it. Sort of like cooking a beautiful meal, and then pissing all over it. They did lots of work building the world and tons of complex quests, then added in a bunch of hand-holding to show you exactly what to do. Like they were afraid to offer Xboxers any kind of challenge.

Just sounds like a boring game to "play".
.

 

[Lord Chambers]

On the matter of weapons or skills, it really seems like it'd be the fanboys place to argue MORE WEAPONS AND SKILLS MEAN MORE RPG MORE CHOICES MORE OPENEDED YEAYAEH! So I'm a little suprised to see the intelligent person pretending the loss of spears or axes is really worth talking about. Seems like grasping at straws when there are much meater issues to contend with.

 

[Chefe]

Man, I can still remember back in late summer of '04 when the game was first announced. I was so fucking excited.

... funny how things change like that.

 

[Drakron]

I disagreed with the removal of skills. But seriously.. Oh no they grouped short blade with long blade?! So what? Why does that make the game dumber?

Yes because they did not stop of just grouping short blades and long blades.

In Oblivion daggers and claymores use the same skill (bladed weapons), also we get rather the rather hilarious grouping of maces with axes in the blunt skill.

Medium armor got mixed into heavy armor? Same thing... doesn't make it dumber.

Of course it does, you simply dont have to think of what is better for you character ... medium armor or heavy armor since you simply need to look at what gives better protection.

Less weapons? Doesn't bother me... Crossbows in Morrowind were shitty anyway. This COULD be constrewed as dumbing down, so I'll concede this one.

Could?

Crossbows in Morrowind were "shitty" because they were made shitty compared with other ranged weapons so instead of making crossbows a real alternative they remove then.

I dont think its dumbing down, its more of "being lazy fucks".

Quest compass: Well, being that not many other games have something similar to this (Guildwars, Ugh) I don't know how it will affect things. But mentioning this adds credit to the game itself in that it's the only game I can think of that is so open ended that you might need something like this. Baldurs gate games were extremely open ended for that genre of game but there was absolutely no need for a quest compass. Besides, this is a LOT better than having a big EXCLAMATION MARK over a glowing quest NPC. Although, this could also be constrewed as dumbing down because it makes the game easier for preteens and stupid people.

The issue is we CANNOT turn the damn thing off, not that its there and I rather have map marking anyway.

Unkillable primary NPCs: Meh, doesn't bother me. Could you kill them in the three games you mentioned? If so, why would you want to? I doubt anyone would do it, as you'd be living in a static world with no chance of progression? Would knowing that you COULD do it if you REALLY wanted to make you sleep better?

Thats not the point.

The point is there was a consequence to the actions ... kill a essencial NPC and the main quest is screwed.

Oblivion takes away consequence for the actions.

It's not like I think of Todd Howard as a deity... I know he botched Morrowind, but it seems like they've learned from their mistakes.

You are a idiot.

Morrowind was a comercial success, it made Xbox GotY and pushed a relative unknown series as one of the Xbox "must play" games.

Todd have no reason to stay away of Morrowind model, it was sucesseful one ... both critical and finacial.

Oblivion was based in Morrowind model but with Xbox 360 in mind ... after all it was were Morrowind had a success.

What stop Morrowind PC success was superior RPGs being released on PC (notable NwN) and that is what going to happen with Oblivion as well (NwN2 and Gothic 3) so its futher going to be a Xbox RPG.

What is bad is that the Xbox RPG model is Fable, not Morrowind and certainly not Daggerfall.

 

[Vault Dweller]

On the matter of weapons or skills, it really seems like it'd be the fanboys place to argue MORE WEAPONS AND SKILLS MEAN MORE RPG MORE CHOICES MORE OPENEDED YEAYAEH! So I'm a little suprised to see the intelligent person pretending the loss of spears or axes is really worth talking about. Seems like grasping at straws when there are much meater issues to contend with.

The what person?

 

[dongle]

No wonder they're making the thing harder to mod for and not releasing any manual for the construction set... they want you to buy their own fucking mods. They know the modders are better at creating a gameworld (in every aspect mind you, from dialogue, to quests... even to graphics) than they are. The dependencies were bad enough in Morrowind, now for all these mods you'll have to pay Bethesda to play something that someone else created for free?

Much as I hate to admit it, that's gotta be it. Not only do they not want me as a paying customer, but to eliminate me from their competition. When all I was doing was spending my free time and hosting bandwidth to help popularize their game for free. Heck, even -paying- them for the right to do so. -sigh-

Sorry, OT rant over.

 

[dongle]

Oh and Frankie? He'll buy 'em. He'll buy 'em all.

I WILL NOT under ANY circumstances PAY for Official Mods. It's wrong to charge for them, it's wrong to use the DRM and hoping everyone joins me in my effort to show them it's not right to us fans.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... &p=3990798

:twisted:

 

[Chefe]

No freakin' way.

So, I guess he's just a schizo then?

 

[pantheon]

So, I guess he's just bipolar then?

 

[whitemithrandir]

No freakin' way.

So, I guess he's just a schizo then?

I'm the resident TES schizo. He's stealing my thunder.

 

[LlamaGod]

I read a detailed preview of Oblivion in Game Informer, they played the game at Bethesda's place and they talk about radiant AI some.

Basically, from the way they describe, it's the same as having NPC sceduels in games, they get up from bed and go go outside and walk a route and talk to each other, but there are random events that can be thrown in such as an NPC stealing, but they dont happen often, but they can happen.

They even admit in the preview that all they saw the NPCs do is mill around and talk to each other and didnt see any of the advanced RAI happen during their game time.


Seriously, I would not be surprised if Gothic 3 had better scedule AI. One of Gothic 2's big selling points was that it had it and I put a safe bet they'll want to do it big time in the next game, especially to top Oblivion like Gothic 2's AI did Morrowind.

All Bethesda did was overhype their modified scedueling AI, slap a fancy name on it and now everone thinks fucking Deep Blue is running in the NPCs in the game.

 

[Tintin]

Has this Frankie become the unnofficial representative of the TES boards?

 

[funkbutter]

10 more words telling me what an example of a good RPG would be. Why doesn't BRYCE777 do the same? It'd make him look less like someone trying to sound smarter than he is by using bigger words and vague/ambiguous statements and more like someone who actually has something real to say.

I am not a monkey for your amusement.

The irony is this is not a thread about oblivion, but the idiotic fanboys. This seems to have eluded your feeble grasp.

I have made my points in full, not about oblivion so much as the idiots from the TES forums who keep coming here. The same guy with 10 accounts? 10 hivemind members? The devs? Who knows, but it is annoying and stupid.

We have discussed oblivion ad nauseum, and honestly if you don't look at it at face value and laugh yor ass off you either have no idea what an rpg is/hate them, or else you are just a fucking idiot who is totally unable to discriminate or totally unable to perceive reality from the news blurbs.

Basically, oblivion has dialog with NO FUCKING DIALOG. The persuasion minigame nearly had me literally rolling on the floor laughing.

If you want to see why I think oblivion is a stinker, choose any thread at random and start reading.

As for why I don't bother explaining, it's because people like you are exactly the ones it is pointless to explain to, and further I have no desire to sway your tiny mind. You aren't a scotch drinker and never will be, but it is idiotic and ignorant of you to insist your gassy ass st ives shit is the same as single malt scotch.

What you said DID have me rolling on the floor laughing. The gist of that is, "IF you don't agree with me, you're retarded"...

And MY mind is tiny? I'm very open minded, which is why I've been posting here and arguing with you. To gain perspective on this game so that I can decide whether or not it will be the next game I play, if I chose not to go back to WoW. I agree with you in that Morrowind had dialogue with no dialogue. As with Ob, however, what I've seen is a lot of spoken dialogue that I liked. I don't like, and have never liked the fact that you can't pick what you say, you just click little topic words, I hate that.

I could go into the fact that you're dumb and can't spell dialogue and that you're the one with the tiny mind because you think that what you say is absolute truth, or I could say that yea I agree with what you said about the dialogue but that this game is the worst game in history? Again, the mere existence of Fable proves you wrong, good game.

 

[whitemithrandir]

What you said DID have me rolling on the floor laughing. The gist of that is, "IF you don't agree with me, you're retarded"...

Okay, so who leaked the motto of the Codex Hive Mind to this newcomer?

 

[obediah]

Offtopic because I hate you all:
The Silver Jews are touring soon for the first time ever. Check your local listings.

and coming to a bar a few miles down the road.

 

[LlamaGod]

dude, you play WoW, you can't be that bright

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Too much anger there is in all of you. Succumb to the dark side you will! Control your anger, you must!

Seriously, this issue is getting way too emotional, too much namecalling and mutual trolling. I like to discuss the pros and cons of games and RPG philosophies with people who have an informed opinion and are critical, but I doubt this is currently or in the future going to be possible on this site with respect to Oblivion or most likely any other Bethesda game. I can't help feeling reminded of Highschool and everyone picking on the class geek. Just because.
And not only becasue of the diehards who were here all along, now it's a safe haven for disgruntled ex TES fans too (Hi Dongle! What made you come here?!)

Still, I hope we can talk reasonably about this game after it is out, but the tone of voice that is being used on both sides leave me not very optimistic.

 

[funkbutter]

I play WoWt, yes, but I didn't say that I liked it. Or that I didn't hate it more than everything in existance except satan.