Obsidian General Discussion Thread

[Fairfax]

It's about as plausible as from "Headlines and Factoids" writer to Lead Designer in 2 years. Young industry, faster promotion.

From Designer to Lead Designer. He worked as designer on DtU and ST, and also several PnP modules before joining Interplay. Also, Lead Designer is very far from being the head of the entire RPG division.

Yeah, think about what you're saying here. They took a chance on a guy with litttle management experience but who was actually a gamer, and that's somehow a problem?

It can be a problem, and it most certainly was in Interplay's case.

Nowadays instead of promoting from within, they'd hire an outsider with MBA who only ever played Angry Birds on his phone.

Very few studios have done that, even public companies.

I think you need both, someone who knows the industry and has good knowledge of the type of games they're doing and they are good at managing and production stuff. Probably not easy to find such a combination.

That's the case with BioWare, Bethesda and CDPR, the most successful RPG developers.

 

[2house2fly]

It's about as plausible as from "Headlines and Factoids" writer to Lead Designer in 2 years. Young industry, faster promotion.

 

[Infinitron]

lol, that's not what I've heard about CD Projekt. But cheap Polish money does go a long way towards papering over management problems

 

[Flou]

lol, that's not what I've heard about CD Projekt. But cheap Polish money does go a long way towards papering over management problems

Yeah, it's easy to be more successful than your competition when you salaries, rent etc. are way cheaper than everyone elses. Not to mention owning GOG.com helps a lot

 

[Rev]

Well, they deserve some credit for becoming the second biggest company in the RPG industry starting from Poland and being basically unknown, with an IP that wasn't really famous beyond their homeland.
They might have managerial problems in how they run their projects (CP2077 being the most glaring case), but still what they did with the company was no easy task, and they were also very smart about how they came up with GOG and managed to make it the second most important digital store, after Steam.

 

[Fairfax]

lol, that's not what I've heard about CD Projekt. But cheap Polish money does go a long way towards papering over management problems

They went from localizing PC RPGs to this. Terrible management.

lol, that's not what I've heard about CD Projekt. But cheap Polish money does go a long way towards papering over management problems

Yeah, it's easy to be more successful than your competition when you salaries, rent etc. are way cheaper than everyone elses. Not to mention owning GOG.com helps a lot

Don't see your point about GOG, they deserve credit for it.

Also, the cheaper labour comes with its own problems, as they're constantly being poached by european and american studios. Since they have a lot more money, it's less of a problem now than it was a few years ago, but it's the kind of stuff that could kill a studio. This is a pic of the TW1 team showing how many left the company after its release:

 

[Sentinel]

You're kind of falling into a trap there, because CDPR almost went bankrupt after Witcher 1's release due to the economic crisis and the witcher 1 console port. If your company has no money and is days away from closing, I think it's fairly natural that a lot of the employees end up being laid off or just leave.

 

[Fairfax]

You're kind of falling into a trap there, because CDPR almost went bankrupt after Witcher 1's release due to the economic crisis and the witcher 1 console port. If your company has no money and is days away from closing, I think it's fairly natural that a lot of the employees end up being laid off or just leave.

It shows people who left over the years (updated in 2015 IIRC), not just after TW1, and it happened after TW2 as well. Horizon: Zero Dawn by Guerilla is one example, it has several devs poached from Bethesda and CDPR.

 

[Quillon]

it has several devs poached from Bethesda and CDPR.

I don't know if they got anyone else from Bethesda but I know Johngonzo passed off as from Bethesda.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Lol, CDPR and good management. Where do I begin.

The founders were small-time con-men selling pirated games from under the counter on a flea market, until one of them got money from his parents to start a real business. They went into of localizing and publishing games, and were somewhat successful, not thanks to good management, but because of low barrier of entry - the video game business in Eastern Europe was just being born.

Then they went into making games, nearly went bankrupt bunch of times, until finally having their break. Mostly thanks to: A) exploiting very low wages and rent, which B) didn't stop them from running their employees like slaves and C) using a franchise which happens to be extremely popular among "computer people" in Poland. And that's the real reason why the games came out so good. All those guys on that picture? Every single one of them loves the franchise and wanted it to succeed, despite working in shitty conditions.

Otherwise, it's a horrible place to work at and owners are idiots.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

It can be a problem, and it most certainly was in Interplay's case.

What?Black Isle was profitable, on top of making games that we're still playing 20 years later.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

lol, that's not what I've heard about CD Projekt. But cheap Polish money does go a long way towards papering over management problems

Yeah, it's easy to be more successful than your competition when you salaries, rent etc. are way cheaper than everyone elses. Not to mention owning GOG.com helps a lot

If so, then why companies don't relocate? Many companies move to cheaper counties in search of people to exploit and rivers they can freely dump their wastes in. Many of those have to build their facilities from scratch or move heavy equipment between oceans in contrast to the development companies which are more lightweight.

 

[Fairfax]

Lol, CDPR and good management. Where do I begin.

The founders were small-time con-men selling pirated games from under the counter on a flea market, until one of them got money from his parents to start a real business. They went into of localizing and publishing games, and were somewhat successful, not thanks to good management, but because of low barrier of entry - the video game business in Eastern Europe was just being born.

Then they went into making games, nearly went bankrupt bunch of times, until finally having their break. Mostly thanks to: A) exploiting very low wages and rent, which B) didn't stop them from running their employees like slaves and C) using a franchise which happens to be extremely popular among "computer people" in Poland. And that's the real reason why the games came out so good. All those guys on that picture? Every single one of them loves the franchise and wanted it to succeed, despite working in shitty conditions.

Otherwise, it's a horrible place to work at and owners are idiots.

I know it's shitty, but the low wages and terrible work conditions apply to almost every big studio. Blizzard is one of the rare exceptions when it comes to wages, but it has other issues.
The owners may be idiots in some aspects (don't know enough to say), but I don't see how the company is poorly managed. You can get lucky with a small team and a one-hit wonder, but after 3 games and with 400 employees, any sign of poor management should bring the company down, but it's growing instead. Maybe their alleged incompetence will show in Cyberpunk. We'll see.

It can be a problem, and it most certainly was in Interplay's case.

What?Black Isle was profitable, on top of making games that we're still playing 20 years later.

I mentioned Interplay because Feargus wasn't the only guy to be promoted without experience, and their "messy way" ruined the company. As for Black Isle, its profitability without BioWare is overrated. Stonekeep 2 and TORN probably cost the company a lot more than the small profits PS:T and the IWD games made.

 

[2house2fly]

They might have managerial problems in how they run their projects (CP2077 being the most glaring case)

Is there somewhere I can read more about this? I didn't like Witcher 3 as much as every other human on earth seems to, which puts me in the mood to lap up some CDPR schadenfreude.

 

[Pirata Alma Negra]

If so, then why companies don't relocate? Many companies move to cheaper counties in search of people to exploit and rivers they can freely dump their wastes in. Many of those have to build their facilities from scratch or move heavy equipment between oceans in contrast to the development companies which are more lightweight.

This can only happen with outside dollars. When you have potatoes, invest in potatoes and pay with potatoes it doesn't matter in the end. The difference is that one is in the middle of nowhere and the other around Silicon Valley.

 

[Roguey]

Feargus has run one of the longest running big RPG companies without the aid of Zenimax or an EA buy-out and Fairfax is upset at his managerial skills.

 

[Rev]

Is there somewhere I can read more about this? I didn't like Witcher 3 as much as every other human on earth seems to, which puts me in the mood to lap up some CDPR schadenfreude.

I know nothing specifically, but the project was announced about five years ago and they still have released nothing about it except the initial teaser trailer, which is kinda odd. They also probably tossed away the initial work to begin something new in the meantime, or otherwise they should've come up with something between the announce and now.

Feargus has run one of the longest running big RPG companies without the aid of Zenimax or an EA buy-out and Fairfax is upset at his managerial skills.

Well, he managed to keep Obsidian afloat for all these years which in itself isn't a small feat considering many others companies couldn't (like Troika, for instance), but we also know a lot of mistakes on his (and his co-owners) side. They risked bankrupcy in more than one occasion, had a lot of controversial issues with almost all of their project and, at least apparently, burned a lot of bridges with many of their former publishers. Also, they used to make AAA games and aren't doing that anymore: it's not a bad thing from a gamer point of view, since I prefer top down rpgs rather than shooters-rpg hybrids, but still it's somewhat of a step down for them.

 

[Roguey]

The President of the United States isn't a perfect businessman either.

 

[Fairfax]

Feargus has run one of the longest running big RPG companies without the aid of Zenimax or an EA buy-out and Fairfax is upset at his managerial skills.

His record at BIS is pretty bad, and not going bankrupt is a rather low standard for good management. Also:

It's tempting to look at this as Obsidian returning to the kind of games we want it to make - games like Fallout: New Vegas, Knights of the Old Republic 2, South Park: The Stick of Truth, Alpha Protocol and so on. Role-playing games with a proper budget. But those budgets come from publishers, and although Obsidian has worked with most of them, few appear to have asked Obsidian back.

Plus with all the talent and little competition they had in 2008-2011, it's amazing the company almost went bankrupt in the first place.

As for BioWare, they were extremely successful well before getting bought, and Feargus/BIS/Obsidian owe them quite a lot. The first two BIS projects which didn't use the Infinity Engine fell in development hell and got cancelled, costing the company millions. And while Obsidian's pitches were all getting rejected by publishers, they got their first project thanks to the docs.
The EA money was their retirement money, which Feargus wishes he had as well.

considering many others companies couldn't (like Troika, for instance),

Troika could've kept going, they just didn't want to take shitty projects.

 

[Rev]

Troika could've kept going, they just didn't want to take shitty projects.

Maybe they could've for some time, but I think they would've still close at the end. All three of their games came out with a lot of technical problems, and not one was really a hit, so most of the publishers weren't interested anymore in paying for their RPGs.

I agree with the rest of the post, tho. BioWare surely was a lot more successful than Obsidian and that was before they got bought by EA. Part of that is because BW always made less complicated games, especially in terms of narrative, while Obsidian tried harder to push the boundaries and that wasn't always appreciated, just look at KotOR 1 and 2: aside from the bugs and the obvious cut contents, people generally preferred the first one because it had a simpler story, more in line with Star Wars tradition, while I remember reading many others criticizing KotOR II because they felt it was too slow, verbose or complicated.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

You can get lucky with a small team and a one-hit wonder, but after 3 games and with 400 employees, any sign of poor management should bring the company down, but it's growing instead.

So for CDPR simply not going going under and growing is a sign of good management? Okay.

His record at BIS is pretty bad, and not going bankrupt is a rather low standard for good management.

But not when it comes to Feargus, apparently.

Work a little bit harder on camouflaging your agenda, mate.

 

[Roguey]

For all the times I've been accused of being a Sawyer alt, it would be delightful if Fairfax was really Avellone, an outlet for his hidden wrath. Even going as far as interviewing himself.

Fuel for the conspiracy fire: Fairfax, VA is 25 minutes from Alexandria where Chris grew up.

 

[EnthalpyFlow]

For all the times I've been accused of being a Sawyer alt, it would be delightful if Fairfax was really Avellone, an outlet for his hidden wrath. Even going as far as interviewing himself.

Fuel for the conspiracy fire: Fairfax, VA is 25 minutes from Alexandria where Chris grew up.

 

[Luckmann]

For all the times I've been accused of being a Sawyer alt, it would be delightful if Fairfax was really Avellone, an outlet for his hidden wrath. Even going as far as interviewing himself.

Fuel for the conspiracy fire: Fairfax, VA is 25 minutes from Alexandria where Chris grew up.

Also, Fairfax is using the avatar of Darth Nihilus, a character conceptualized by Avellone, and Sawyer is a gigantic faggot.

It all fits!

 

[Fairfax]

Troika could've kept going, they just didn't want to take shitty projects.

Maybe they could've for some time, but I think they would've still close at the end. All three of their games came out with a lot of technical problems, and not one was really a hit, so most of the publishers weren't interested anymore in paying for their RPGs.

I agree with the rest of the post, tho. BioWare surely was a lot more successful than Obsidian and that was before they got bought by EA. Part of that is because BW always made less complicated games, especially in terms of narrative, while Obsidian tried harder to push the boundaries and that wasn't always appreciated, just look at KotOR 1 and 2: aside from the bugs and the obvious cut contents, people generally preferred the first one because it had a simpler story, more in line with Star Wars tradition, while I remember reading many others criticizing KotOR II because they felt it was too slow, verbose or complicated.

In terms of writing, most of their games were less complicated, but many were still very ambitious (SWTOR being the infamous example). The main difference is that the docs were much better businessmen.

You can get lucky with a small team and a one-hit wonder, but after 3 games and with 400 employees, any sign of poor management should bring the company down, but it's growing instead.

So for CDPR simply not going going under and growing is a sign of good management? Okay.

His record at BIS is pretty bad, and not going bankrupt is a rather low standard for good management.

But not when it comes to Feargus, apparently.

Work a little bit harder on camouflaging your agenda, mate.

You're the one saying that's all they did. I said poor management should bring the company down at some point, and that Cyberpunk could be one it, but so far there's no sign of it. They're much more successful than Obsidian, which just went through another round of layoffs thanks to another bad deal by Feargus.

For all the times I've been accused of being a Sawyer alt, it would be delightful if Fairfax was really Avellone, an outlet for his hidden wrath. Even going as far as interviewing himself.

Fuel for the conspiracy fire: Fairfax, VA is 25 minutes from Alexandria where Chris grew up.

That would be something, eh?