Obsidian General Discussion Thread

[Eirinjas]

Tyranny also sold like shit.

Tyranny is hot garbage. Everything about it, from the shit skills and boring combat to the scatological feminist fantasia writing, is just awful. A pox on everyone who worked on it!

This was the original impression I got from when it was new, but lately there have been people running around saying good things about it and I'm really confused. I almost bought it (if I didn't in fact actually buy it).

I walked around angry for a week after finishing it. I wish I was exaggerating. I hate absolutely everything about it.

Let me dispel the myth that the game has great C & C, because that seems to be the prevailing myth. I destroyed one of my party member's entire way of life and everything they had held dear, and they responded to this ruination by frowning at me momentarily.

 

[Infinitron]

I think people who like Tyranny (or at least give it some credit and don't think it has no redeeming value) do so because they think it has a cooler setting and narrative premise than most fantasy RPGs.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I think people who like Tyranny (or at least give it some credit and don't think it has no redeeming value) do so because they think it has a cooler setting and narrative premise than most fantasy RPGs.

Completely wasted potential though.

 

[Haplo]

Tyranny also sold like shit.

Tyranny is hot garbage. Everything about it, from the shit skills and boring combat to the scatological feminist fantasia writing, is just awful. A pox on everyone who worked on it!

This was the original impression I got from when it was new, but lately there have been people running around saying good things about it and I'm really confused. I almost bought it (if I didn't in fact actually buy it).

The setting is nice. So is the graphics. The map history background creation is a great idea. Custom Spell Creation system is absolutely fantastic! (if unbalanced)

It's also edgy, SJW filled, combat is repetitive, enemy variety pretty sad... and overall kinda.. unfinished with rushed ending.

I'd say its about an average crpg with some cool, original ideas.

 

[Nano]

Average is just a synonym for mediocre.

 

[Haplo]

I'd argue its not really bland though, so that is something. A lot of wasted potential, true. But not entirely forgetful. So... a flawed game, but possibly worth playing.

Similar level as Divinity: Original Sin for example, IMO.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Now on YouTube:

I've played deadfire multiple times, the factions were all boring and the reputation system could have been removed and nothing would have changed
reputation system between companions was good though and it's not surprising he hates one of the few good things the game has
companions getting mad at each other and eventually resulting in one leaving or them attacking each other was a good part of BG/BG2, I dislike when RPGs allow you to throw companions into the same party that are polar opposites without some friction
His example of Xoti and Pallegina hating each other is a good thing, not a bad thing. How do you think a priest would react to someone insulting his god repeatedly just after they met?

 

[Ninjerk]

Now on YouTube:

I've played deadfire multiple times, the factions were all boring and the reputation system could have been removed and nothing would have changed
reputation system between companions was good though and it's not surprising he hates one of the few good things the game has
companions getting mad at each other and eventually resulting in one leaving or them attacking each other was a good part of BG/BG2, I dislike when RPGs allow you to throw companions into the same party that are polar opposites without some friction
His example of Xoti and Pallegina hating each other is a good thing, not a bad thing. How do you think a priest would react to someone insulting his god repeatedly just after they met?

Yeah, when he was describing that I kept thinking to myself, "That sounds like working as intended." This sounds like it might be frustrating for casuals, though.

 

[StrongBelwas]

The problem isn't Xoti hating Pallegina, its the player having one conversation with Pallegina and Xoti immediately going Deus Vult because you hit the fedora tipping options all in a row, regardless of the circumstances
It would probably have been better for Xoti to immediately bring up the issues upon recruiting Pallegina instead of getting triggered whenever the player decides to take the time to talk to her (Jagged Alliance 2 comes to mind)

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The problem isn't Xoti hating Pallegina, its the player having one conversation with Pallegina and Xoti immediately going Deus Vult because you hit the fedora tipping options all in a row

You mean like how devout religious people react irl to being told their god is stupid and their religion is fake?

 

[tripedal]

He left out the copotype system though, that's a tag-based abstract reputation system of sorts.

And I have to say this was the worst part of the thought cabinet system. The way you gain thoughts is good, but most thoughts have no effect beyond their bonuses. I expected something like Art Cop to open up a lot of new conversation options tbh.

 

[Molina]

Woua. He's really savage against PoE.

 

[Quillon]

https://youtu.be/1OrUhqgueAE?t=1799

thanks for acknowledging the problem josh... albeit 1.5 years later

Spoiler

Having ranks in dispositions is a good idea, but used to inconsistently/ infrequently.

Its not just that, they are trying to take account of many more things in response to Chargen; an NPC notices player's race/gender/where from, another if he's a godlike or not, another if player has animal companion, a situation to use player's "job" in dialogue etc. they went too deep trying to react to everything. After everything adds up, with that many things to react to, they decide to streamline the reactions so which faction I'm aligned with becomes equally less important as where my character is from; both gets the same caliber response, a dialogue line here and there, maybe in same frequency. How much can the narrative designers be creative(assuming they have talent) while also trying to fill all the blanks in this template that Sawyer's laid out?

 

[Eirinjas]

Tyranny also sold like shit.

Tyranny is hot garbage. Everything about it, from the shit skills and boring combat to the scatological feminist fantasia writing, is just awful. A pox on everyone who worked on it!

This was the original impression I got from when it was new, but lately there have been people running around saying good things about it and I'm really confused. I almost bought it (if I didn't in fact actually buy it).

The setting is nice. So is the graphics. The map history background creation is a great idea. Custom Spell Creation system is absolutely fantastic! (if unbalanced)

It's also edgy, SJW filled, combat is repetitive, enemy variety pretty sad... and overall kinda.. unfinished with rushed ending.

I'd say its about an average crpg with some cool, original ideas.

Is it average? Or is it just bad? Combat was so boring/easy that a few hours into the game I gave up on it entirely and let it sort itself out, often playing my guitar or uke until it finished instead. I can't think of any other RPG where I felt like I was a completely unnecessary component in how combat encounters turned out.

And the narrative isn't just an SJW-landfill, but a terribly written one with inconsistent characters at that. Verse is the worst written character I've ever witnessed in my entire life. She introduces herself as a fearless psychopath who gleefully tells you how much she loves to fight and kill, that she hated her mother and enjoyed murdering the people of her village, and describes the pleasure she derived from torturously cutting a farmer's legs off while his wife cried. This is not a sympathetic character, but that didn't stop the writers! You will have to repeatedly listen to her nostalgically reminisce in grotesquely maudlin fashion about her "sisters". She'll tell you in agonizingly boring detail how they loved to fight and kill, and how amazing they were at it, then morosely say something like "She was one of the good ones." No! No she wasn't! They were all a bunch of psychos! Why am I being emotionally manipulated to feel sympathy for horrible people?!

Just thinking about the time I invested in this crap makes me angry. I would have never thought it possible for a studio like Obsidian to make such absolute trash.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's unfinished crap, of course the codex loves it
If it was finished crap it would be hated

 

[Scarlet Lilith]

I think people who like Tyranny (or at least give it some credit and don't think it has no redeeming value) do so because they think it has a cooler setting and narrative premise than most fantasy RPGs.

Completely wasted potential though.

'Hey, guys, do you want an RTwP RPG about being an edgelord henchman to an evil overlord in a bronze age setting taking place just before the final victory of the forces of darkness, where instead of determining just the character's background you also change the state of the world during character creation? We're not even going to slurp up any crowdfunding money to make it, so no stupid backer content or scope creep due to stretchgoals.'

'By the way, we're putting the B-team on it and while we're really not interested in exploring that premise or fully fleshing out the game we might give you an evil ending in a patch later idk lol.'

 

[Sacred82]

We're not even going to slurp up any crowdfunding money to make it, so no stupid backer content or scope creep due to stretchgoals.'

Welcome to 2020, there's no creep of scope or feature due to Kickstarter, cause there are no obligations. Backers aren't publishers, more like the publishers' mildly retarded little brothers. Literally. They just see the pretty pictures and cough up whatever change they have on them.

Also I'm pretty much convinced by now that software is always as stupid as its user. Unless it didn't ship in the state it was on the devs' machines when it was greenlighted for release, and/ or didn't install properly. Which definitely happens way more often than you think. I'm pretty sure 99% of devs never bother to actually verify if their product really gets into consumers' hands they way they intended. Like, do the fuckers ever walk into a store and buy a disk off the shelf, or get a key for Steam/ GOG shovelware installers, and then install that shit without drawing on their inside knowledge of the game? In all probability not. And this is just talking about cases where software isn't deliberately neutered in its functionality for certain markets.

I'd actually consider this the single greatest problem in the software industry, ever. From a consumer POV, of course. But the problem can be located on the other side of the screen as well.

When you say stupid backer content I have to think of PoE's backer NPC's. But if something's offensively stupid, you're probably doing it wrong, stupid. If something is offensively annoying, that probably means the app wants you to do things differently. You just don't get it, or you don't want to.

If something's offensively overpowered, that might just be a red flag telling you you're not supposed to use it. Kodex, take heed. Invoking Darth Roxor
And the problem for you is, this may go well beyond simply making the game not fun because the devs didn't give a shit about balancing the game for retarded crap. It probably means they did see it, and they gave you that rope to hang yourself with it. If you insist on it.

The Kodex has been crying like faggots over "shallow gameplay" and "bland settings" for years. We dun liek LARPers here, duh. Problem is, CRPG's are exactly the complex creations we like to deny they are. And CRPG devs are in fact the smart and careful, gaming nerds we like to deny they are.

If you don't bother to learn and understand how a setting works, how a system in that setting works (and not just the system you construct in your mind based on what's made possible by the program), if you don't give a shit about what the NPC's sensibilities might be... you're gonna have a swell 5 minutes fucking around in fantasyland before everything starts to suck. Like you've done 100000000*!?! times before. Because CRPG's are complex programs, the devs put in more work than you think, the NPC's are smarter and more reactive than you notice... because you got 100 doors slammed in your face in those first 5 minutes. You just didn't notice, because you didn't give a shit. You were just fucking around in fantasyland.


tl;dr maybe you're just not supposed to stop and stand around probing the heads of weird-ass looking Godlikes with your mind rape tentacles every few steps, dumbfuck

 

[Darth Roxor]

i dunno why i was invoked here but ok

 

[Sacred82]

https://youtu.be/1OrUhqgueAE?t=1799

thanks for acknowledging the problem josh... albeit 1.5 years later

Spoiler

Having ranks in dispositions is a good idea, but used to inconsistently/ infrequently.

Its not just that, they are trying to take account of many more things in response to Chargen; an NPC notices player's race/gender/where from, another if he's a godlike or not, another if player has animal companion, a situation to use player's "job" in dialogue etc. they went too deep trying to react to everything. After everything adds up, with that many things to react to, they decide to streamline the reactions so which faction I'm aligned with becomes equally less important as where my character is from; both gets the same caliber response, a dialogue line here and there, maybe in same frequency. How much can the narrative designers be creative(assuming they have talent) while also trying to fill all the blanks in this template that Sawyer's laid out?

or maybe you're really just scratching the surface of NPCs' interest in you.


Again, trust the Kodex to not have remarked on how insanely weird the dichotomy between rare instances of deep reactivity and long stretches of no reactivity at all really is in those gud old games. Tfw playing an IE game for hours with barely anyone addressing your character as anything other than Sir/M'lady; then 30 hours into the game someone thinks they recognize your character as a priest of the Fire God worshipped by the dwarven smiths of Clan Urgrosh, and assigns you a unique little sidequest (nets you a +4 returning throwing hammer unique to dwarves). Then another dry stretch for the next 10 hours. The gulf is staggering, and you people still don't grow a clue.




Since RPGers are either too autistic (mechanicsfags) or too retarded/ deluded (storyfags & LARPers), no one ever had a hunch that maybe a gameworld's NPC's had their own opinions on things. Their own conventions they expected you - the customer player - to conform to. Their own minds.

First those devs & pubs shake you down for your hard earned dorrah, and then they even expect you to read up on the source material they give you (not just story). To put the pieces together and form an image of that gameworld in your mind. And then act accordingly and play a character that wouldn't seem like a Chosen One special snowflake freak accident to the inhabitants of that gameworld.

Too much work, too little fun, and btw why are the people taking my money telling me what the rules are on top of that? But you're going to miss out on reactivity, and, frankly, the entire actual game.


Enter piecemeal reactivity across the board, from a character's cultural background to their last employer, from their choice of leather boots to the color of their stache. Anything can seem remarkable about a PC, if you make the NPC's try hard enough.
My guess is both Pillars actually contained more buttloads of reactivity than is advisable if you want to keep your sanity. Just you're not going to see a whole lot of it in one playthrough, and maybe not even one instance where it goes really deep. Because you never bothered with sticking to one role or niche... you know, the role [i[they[/i] want you to LARP. Not the Elven princess with fire magic you had in mind for yourself.

So who's to blame? 1.) See above, autists and fuckwits both, equally. 2.) The devs themselves, by making their prissy little bitch NPC's so fucking obscure about their likes and dislikes, and generally not giving you enough source material about the gameworld, but goddamn creation myth lore instead. And so door after door keeps closing quietly for the player without you noticing, until there's no reasonable way for NPC's to try and pigeonhole the player character without turning the whole thing into an absurd carnival of retards with amnesia.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I think that the reputations system as implemented in Deadfire is shit. With so many traits which are often quite loosely fitted to the dialogues which they represent, you'll end up with a character that contains most of them by the end of it.

Either stick to the simple binary opposition (karma in Fallout, paragon/renegade in Mass Effect, coldness in Elex etc etc) or just have reputations tied to factions and maybe some concrete concepts such as lawful vs unlawful in judicial terms, using certain substances or not and so on. Even some of the ones in Deadfire are ok (like 'honest', though its opposite shouldn't be 'shady'), but the more of them you add in, the more muddled the waters become when it comes to their success as a means of character shaping. Less is more seems to be the case in this regard.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

D:OS2's tag system was far less autistic and its simplicity led to an overall better experience. Going to assume it was also much easier on the writers/designers as well because there wasn't some autistic tracking system, just a binary yes/no.

 

[TT1]

https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox...worlds-and-big-sci-fi-future-xbox-titles-says

Rumor: Xbox Game Studios building 'reboots,' 'gorgeous fantasy worlds,' and 'big sci-fi' for future Xbox games
A noteworthy insider recently offered some tantalizing teases about what could be on the horizon for Xbox Game Studios.

Microsoft's Xbox has enjoyed the power advantage over PlayStation for quite some time now, but in the world of gaming, that alone simply isn't enough.

Microsoft has been playing catch up to Sony's increasingly potent stable of high-quality AAA games, with titles like God of War, Spider-man, The Last of Us, and many others achieving widespread critical acclaim. Microsoft's Xbox Game Studios have been on the back foot, to some degree, with only a handful of titles like Ori and Forza Horizon achieving unanimous praise.

We've written previously about how this needs to change for Xbox's long-term future, and noted that Xbox Game Studios is well-positioned to improve the situation. Microsoft is investing more in first-party content than ever before, and we're beginning to see the fruits of those efforts in the teaser trailer for Hellblade II, which looks phenomenal.

What about other games though? We have no official word on what The Initiative, Playground Games' RPG team, or The Coalition may be working on next, although we have some pretty good guesses.

Noteworthy insider and all-round lovely chap @Shinobi602 recently offered some small teases about what Xbox Game Studios fans can expect in the future from the teams at Microsoft.

Source: Resetera

For what it's worth, there are some long-standing rumors floating around that Playground Games' is working on a big reboot of Microsoft's dormant Fable RPG franchise, while some others suggest The Initiative may be working on the Perfect Dark IP of Rare fame. Phil Spencer has also recently commented that he'd like to explore MechAssault again, despite the potential issues with franchise rights.

Either way, we could be waiting a while for any of these titles to materialize in full, perhaps even longer given the way most game developers are currently working from home, impacting productivity pipelines across the entire industry.

E3 2020 may be canceled, but Microsoft is planning a digital event to showcase some of its upcoming content, so hopefully, we'll see some of these rumors coalesce into reality sooner, rather than later.

 

[Gaylord III]

Any word on if there will be a Pillars of Eternity 3?

 

[TT1]

Any word on if there will be a Pillars of Eternity 3?

Now that they are under Microsoft, it can happen. But I dont believe it will be a niche isometric RTWP game.

 

[vortex]

I think Pillars of Eternity 3 will be isometric RTWP game. But, they may do Pillars of Eternity: Something spinoff action RPG.