Obsidian General Discussion Thread

[Roguey]

Same for Star Wars.

It would be pretty ironic for them to finally do a new Star Wars RPG precisely when Avellone has just left.

Star Wars, is far, far greater than Avellone and such a project could/would do very well without him

 

[Crooked Bee]

A standard Star Wars game, sure. An actually great one like KOTOR 2? I doubt that.

 

[Fairfax]

It would definitely be ironic, but I really doubt it's Star Wars, considering EA's exclusivity deal. I'd bet on D&D.

 

[Roguey]

Why would they make a D&D game when they have Pillars, that's deserving of the "Absurdian" moniker, but

 

[Fairfax]

Why would they make a D&D game when they have Pillars, that's deserving of the "Absurdian" moniker, but

Well, it's not South Park and I really doubt it's Star Wars. I don't think a new Fallout by Obsidian could be crowdfunded (nor should it be), same for Dungeon Siege. Only options left (IMO) are Alpha Protocol and D&D. Maybe they got the AP from SEGA, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[Roguey]

I don't think a new Fallout by Obsidian could be crowdfunded (nor should it be),

Could be if they're making Classic Fallout: Starring Tim Cain and Josh Sawyer.

 

[Fairfax]

Could be if they're making Classic Fallout: Starring Tim Cain and Josh Sawyer.

 

[Roguey]

Why is that upsetting you, I'm sure most people would find that fantastic news.

Up until the point where Sawyer and new-Cain balance it of course.

 

[Fairfax]

Not sure it's fair to say there's a "new-Cain". We don't know how much of the Stronghold clusterfuck was his fault. I've also been told MCA's area in WL2 (don't know, haven't played it) was bad. Good guys make mistakes.

 

[Roguey]

Not sure it's fair to say there's a "new-Cain". We don't know how much of the Stronghold clusterfuck was his fault. I've also been told MCA's area in WL2 (don't know, haven't played it) was bad. Good guys make mistakes.

The stronghold wasn't his only contribution. He contributed to class design as well, including providing feedback.

Avellone's Wasteland 2 areas are okay enough (well so far, I haven't reached the endgame yet), people dislike them because they were expecting something more like Fallout.

 

[Crooked Bee]

I agree with Roguey in that the Agricultural Center wasn't as bad as some say it was. He did design it, but I don't think MCA actually wrote any content for it though, so...

As for Tim Cain, I get the impression his contribution on PoE was fairly minor, given how the systems decisions ultimately seem to be all Josh's. He undoubtedly had some input, but I don't think he had any final say in anything. I do wonder what Tim would/could do if given creative freedom, though; and I wonder if we'll ever know.

 

[Roguey]

I don't think MCA actually wrote any content for it though

When the game started, he was listed as a writer in addition to a designer, so he wrote something. Just not for Ag Center/Highpool.

 

[CptMace]

What kind of problems do people have with the Ag. Center in WL2 ? It's no smartass comment, I'm too lazy to check pages and pages of the WL2 thread to search for feedback.
I thought it was a pretty good area, an ounce of investigation, a virus that could turn your mates into pumpkins and the mandatory mad scientific fuck at the end. I mean I don't see a problem speicific to this area that doesn't occur the rest of the game.

Although regarding Avellone's design skills, it seems he has an infuriating tendancy to pop loads of trash encounters in the second half of both his games. These lower planes were painful to go through.

 

[Shevek]

I agree with Roguey in that the Agricultural Center wasn't as bad as some say it was. He did design it, but I don't think MCA actually wrote any content for it though, so...

As for Tim Cain, I get the impression his contribution on PoE was fairly minor, given how the systems decisions ultimately seem to be all Josh's. He undoubtedly had some input, but I don't think he had any final say in anything. I do wonder what Tim would/could do if given creative freedom, though; and I wonder if we'll ever know.

I dont think Cain is an area/narrative/creative designer as much as he is a coding/systems guy.

 

[Zed]

As for Tim Cain, I get the impression his contribution on PoE was fairly minor, given how the systems decisions ultimately seem to be all Josh's. He undoubtedly had some input, but I don't think he had any final say in anything. I do wonder what Tim would/could do if given creative freedom, though; and I wonder if we'll ever know.

from what I've gathered, Cain only really had a designer role for the stronghold, item enchanting system and some talent design. he'd probably have been involved in the proposed crafting system as well.

 

[Ninjerk]

Who knows if Cain would even want to lead something on a large scale. There's still a place for him in Valhalla.

 

[Roguey]

What kind of problems do people have with the Ag. Center in WL2 ?

Fillerphobia. Most of the combat content isn't particularly demanding for illusion-of-strategic-gameplay reasons.

Additionally, for some reason, some people were expecting Fallout-style social hubs in a sequel to Wasteland.

 

[Drax]

It's FalloutSHUTUPEVERYONEITSFALLOUTFORFUCKSSAKE

 

[Crooked Bee]

I dont think Cain is an area/narrative/creative designer as much as he is a coding/systems guy.

At the moment, yes. However, take this bit from our retrospective interview with him:

Given that you left Interplay midway through Fallout 2's development, how did the resulting game differ from the original design you had in mind for it?

I don't remember the specific details of my plans for Fallout 2, but I do remember playing the game and seeing it was different from the storyline I had proposed for it. I think my biggest disappointment with the game is that each area was made in almost complete isolation from the others. There was no over-arching theme and no attempt to make sure the different areas were cohesive. It felt like a lot of Fallout-y areas, placed adjacently and connected with a storyline. Those areas were individually well-done, but they suffered from the lack of a strong central design.

The guy sounds like a (pretty ambitious) designer, not just a coding/systems person to me. Same goes for his other answers to our interview.

Hard to gauge his current ambition, of course.

 

[Shevek]

Has Cain ever been a design lead?

 

[Crooked Bee]

Has Cain ever been a design lead?

Yes, he was lead designer on ToEE and project lead on both ToEE and Arcanum.

 

[Shevek]

Yes, he was lead designer on ToEE and project lead on both ToEE and Arcanum.

Hmm... That tells me that his strengths are in system design and coding.

 

[Roguey]

Hmm... That tells me that his strengths are in system design and coding.

His duties on those two projects were largely system design and coding.

RPG Vault had a series of interviews with the entire Arcanum team where they broke down their responsibilities, but I don't feel like finding it.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Hmm... That tells me that his strengths are in system design and coding.

Yeah, you're obviously insisting on your original statement, which is fair enough; but what I suggested is that if you read our retrospective interview for example, he has some really strong design sensibilities and a lot of design ambition too. Pretty much every other of his answers relate to setting or narrative or area or just overall game design and how he felt about it, not just to coding or systems.

So, even if you think he's better at system design and coding and should just stick to those for everyone's sake, your original statement that he's not much of "an area/narrative/creative designer" just isn't true, imho.

 

[Neanderthal]

Fallout has always to me stood out as an extremely well designed game, tight and streamlined in a good way, with combat that though unbalanced and hardly revelatory was enjoyable, satisfying and fit for purpose. Arcanum was fantastic in terms of narrative, setting, characters and obviously a bit of a mess mechanics wise. ToEE the exact opposite of Arcanum leaves me not knowing what to think. I'd like to see what Cain could do as a lead, because if you had Arcanum in the ToEE engine...i'll be in mah bunk.