Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

http://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/70569542486/sorry-if-this-is-a-somewhat-asinine-question-but-in

rideroid asked: Sorry if this is a somewhat asinine question but In your opinion as someone who has spent so much effort designing coherent fantasy worlds, do you believe Tolkien has had an overall negative effect on the fantasy genre in the long term? Do you think that LOTR still has its own merits today or has it really just been turned into a grab bag of cliches for uninspired writers to pick and chose cliches from?

I would not say that Tolkien is in any way responsible for how other writers choose to write. If some other author had achieved preeminence in the fantasy genre, people would have just imitated that author’s choices. One of the greatest weaknesses of genre fiction is that so many writers are enamored with the icons of their genre. Their references are not framed by personal interests and life experiences as much as they are framed by the conventions of the genre media they consume.

When I think of classic 20th century fantasy, I think of writers like Tolkien, but also C.S. Lewis, Michael Moorcock, Robert E. Howard, etc. These figures don’t stand out because they generated the apotheosis of established conventions. They stand out because they brought something new to the table — arguably a piece of themselves (in Moorcock’s case, a reaction against two of the other writers in that list).

I believe Tolkien is still worth reading, especially in the context of understanding who he was as a person. Way, way before Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, he had experiences with constructed languages. Way, way before he wrote The Lord of the Rings, he was a soldier fighting in World War I. He also read faerie stories and gave seminal lectures on Beowulf and other works of literature that are part of the larger fantasy genre, but those were just some parts of who he was and what he put into his writing.

Tolkien wrote a heroes’ journeys, the bog-standard arcs found in a billion other stories. He put pieces of himself and the things he loved into it. He created a world that seems cliché until you think about a dude writing it around the middle of the 20th century, before any of that stuff was a cliché. He constructed languages because he loved constructing languages. He wrote stories that borrowed from his experiences as a child, from his time in war, from his relationship with his wife — all of that stuff that made up his life.

By all means, people should read whatever they enjoy. Personally, I feel that if all a would-be creator (writer, artist, whatever) does is consume genre media, it’s unlikely they will turn around and make something that adds anything new, much less something that steps out of the genre. In my opinion, the classic story told a thousand times, but told again, by you is only going to stand out if there’s something in you that goes into that writing. So if there’s one thing to take from Tolkien, even if you hate the actual stories he wrote, is that he stood out by putting himself — not effort, himself — into what he created.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

He stole dwarven names from the Edda.

 

[Roguey]

Tolkien put himself into his work and it's been well-established that he was a racist, sexist bore.

Is this the fabled feminist logic? If you weren't boring, wouldn't these people still follow your posts, instead of ignoring you?

One doesn't ignore boring posters. Or rather one doesn't put them into a list.

 

[SCO]

Great. Now i'm left fearing the P:E will have 'eternal champion', 'mythic resonance' crap.

 

[Black_Willow]

God, you guys just CANNOT not feed Roguey. It's like you're mentally conditioned for that shit.

Not really bro.

 

[SCO]

At least Gloriana or the Unfulfilled Queene (meaning, she was frigid)

 

[Akratus]

Tolkien put himself into his work and it's been well-established that he was a racist, sexist bore.

"Thank you for your letter... I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware noone (sic) of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people."
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Racism_in_Tolkien's_Works

“All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Erol and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.”
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/529626-all-your-words-are-but-to-say-you-are-a

Is this the fabled feminist logic? If you weren't boring, wouldn't these people still follow your posts, instead of ignoring you?

One doesn't ignore boring posters. Or rather one doesn't put them into a list.

 

[Ismaul]

That's genuinely cool, but we didn't Kickstart a game called Fuck You: Suck My Dick: Josh Sawyer's Personal Dream RPG Experience where I do whatever I personally think is sound and neat and good.

Personally, I feel that if all a would-be creator (writer, artist, whatever) does is consume genre media, it’s unlikely they will turn around and make something that adds anything new, much less something that steps out of the genre. In my opinion, the classic story told a thousand times, but told again, by you is only going to stand out if there’s something in you that goes into that writing. So if there’s one thing to take from Tolkien, even if you hate the actual stories he wrote, is that he stood out by putting himself — not effort, himself — into what he created.

Right.
So I guess Pillars of Eternity isn't gonna stand out.

inb4 "I was just in it for the dick and now they took it away."

 

[Lhynn]

You can also adapt to situation better and faster, noticing and exploiting opportunities.

Everything else you said i dont agree, this one is just retarded. We are now attributing combat prowess as a whole to intelligence.

 

[Akratus]

Stupid people can still fight better with more experience/knowledge in the subject.

 

[Lhynn]

Stupid people can still fight better with more experience/knowledge in the subject.

Stupid people can (not saying they would, saying it is irrelevant) also act better with the same experience and knowledge, especially if they are stronger than you are. Intelligence isnt worth shit in a real fight you bunch of nerds. Because you act faster than you can think unless you are actually trained to know better.

 

[DraQ]

One doesn't ignore boring posters. Or rather one doesn't put them into a list.

And why would one ignore interesting ones?

Boring posts that get in the way of forum reading is arguably the only legitimate reason to put someone on the list.

Everything else you said i dont agree, this one is just retarded. We are now attributing combat prowess as a whole to intelligence.

No, we're attributing differences in combat prowess between two combat proficient individuals to the difference between their ability to fight smart and therefore the difference between their intelligence.

Strength should play role in stuff like all sorts of overpower checks, but not necessarily in raw damage.

 

[Abelian]

http://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/70569542486/sorry-if-this-is-a-somewhat-asinine-question-but-in

Tolkien wrote a heroes’ journeys, the bog-standard arcs found in a billion other stories. He put pieces of himself and the things he loved into it. He created a world that seems cliché until you think about a dude writing it around the middle of the 20th century, before any of that stuff was a cliché. He constructed languages because he loved constructing languages. He wrote stories that borrowed from his experiences as a child, from his time in war, from his relationship with his wife — all of that stuff that made up his life.

I believe that some of the backlash against Tolkein can be attributed to the fact that he established many of the standard fantasy tropes, which were then integrated in D&D. His work became a victim of its own success, so it was only natural that there would be a point where his writings would be dissected from a revisionist perspective.

 

[Zeriel]

Moorcock was backlashing against him before D&D was a thing, really. Some people just hated his style of writing, period.

 

[Storyfag]

One doesn't ignore boring posters. Or rather one doesn't put them into a list.

And why would one ignore interesting ones?

Boring posts that get in the way of forum reading is arguably the only legitimate reason to put someone on the list.

Check your privilidge! You're using oppresive patriarchal logic!

 

[Azarkon]

That's genuinely cool, but we didn't Kickstart a game called Fuck You: Suck My Dick: Josh Sawyer's Personal Dream RPG Experience where I do whatever I personally think is sound and neat and good.

Personally, I feel that if all a would-be creator (writer, artist, whatever) does is consume genre media, it’s unlikely they will turn around and make something that adds anything new, much less something that steps out of the genre. In my opinion, the classic story told a thousand times, but told again, by you is only going to stand out if there’s something in you that goes into that writing. So if there’s one thing to take from Tolkien, even if you hate the actual stories he wrote, is that he stood out by putting himself — not effort, himself — into what he created.

Right.
So I guess Pillars of Eternity isn't gonna stand out.

inb4 "I was just in it for the dick and now they took it away."

Sawyer making excuses before a game releases? #TheBlackHound

His advice is well taken, of course, but the two logical halves don't quite connect. Just because a would be creator limits himself to reading genre fiction, does not prevent said creator from putting himself into his writing. People aren't the sum of what they read. His Tolkien example contradicts his own argument, because in his words, Tolkien was a genre reader.

He also read faerie stories and gave seminal lectures on Beowulf and other works of literature that are part of the larger fantasy genre, but those were just some parts of who he was and what he put into his writing.

 

[Kaldurenik]

Anyone that can give a short version on whats happening in the last... 50 pages?

 

[Delterius]

Anyone that can give a short version on whats happening in the last... 50 pages?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNS_Theory

 

[Storyfag]

Anyone that can give a short version on whats happening in the last... 50 pages?

Rage/Trolling.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Progress being made; nerds engaged in nerdy discussion.

 

[Kaldurenik]

Haha ok i guess i will read it when i have some time

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Anyone that can give a short version on whats happening in the last... 50 pages?

Some poeple are white-knighting Sawyer. And some are trying to jsutify Sawyer's msot retared decision till date. Intellect governs melee damage and strength has no role in melee combat. no minimum requirements for wielding weapons, no to hit/damage bonus.

Why? For balance of course!!

 

[Kaldurenik]

Anyone that can give a short version on whats happening in the last... 50 pages?

Some poeple are white-knighting Sawyer. And some are trying to jsutify Sawyer's msot retared decision till date. Intellect governs melee damage and strength has no role in melee combat. no minimum requirements for wielding weapons, no to hit/damage bonus.

Why? For balance of course!!

Hmm sounds strange i would have to read more about the system before i decide.

 

[Akratus]

Stupid people can still fight better with more experience/knowledge in the subject.

Stupid people can (not saying they would, saying it is irrelevant) also act better with the same experience and knowledge, especially if they are stronger than you are. Intelligence isnt worth shit in a real fight you bunch of nerds. Because you act faster than you can think unless you are actually trained to know better.

Anyone that can give a short version on whats happening in the last... 50 pages?

Some poeple are white-knighting Sawyer. And some are trying to jsutify Sawyer's msot retared decision till date. Intellect governs melee damage and strength has no role in melee combat. no minimum requirements for wielding weapons, no to hit/damage bonus.

Why? For balance of course!!

Wait. . . please tell me it's not this retarded.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Kaldurenik Akratus

I am not trolling bros just paraphrasing. It is that retarded. But hey, whatever achieves


Slow days at work. Been reading this mega sperg thread and all its links. I mean at this point I don't care about stimulationist vs gamist philosophy of rpg design as stated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNS_Theory

but strength having ZERO effect on melee combat (if you want to be pedantic strength does increase health and item slots...)