Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[InspectorRumpole]

Guys, stop derailing the thread. Get back to talking about Roguey

 

[Delterius]

(if you want to be pedantic strength does increase health and item slots...)

To be fair: It appears that all heavy frontliners, those you'd expect to have ranks in strenght, are meant to take a lot of punishment. So that's actually pretty significant. Depending on how Sawyer balances item usage, item slots can be pretty important too. After all, the player can bring only a limited amount of items with him in a battle; but that doesn't limit the amount of useful items since they can all be carried in the inventory. Meaning that items can be much more powerful now than they were in, say, NwN where you can access all of your inventory.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

The mental gymnastics...

 

[Delterius]

 

[uaciaut]

If you were non-retarded enough to be able to step away from your post and see just how much it screams of "I'M TRYING TO MAKE AN EXCUSE FOR THIS" you wouldn't even reply.

And even if you were right, how does it make sense to you that every stat in the game has to be "balanced" around Int in order for it to be a viable competitor to the stat that is the only one affecting all damage and healing. Even putting aside simulationist/realism crap how does it make sense to make your whole design about how useful any stat is compared to int (or any other stat that Sawyer might give BOTH all all damage and healing influence to).

I'm curious how attributes will affect non-combat situations. Will there be as many str and dex checks in the game as there are int checks for it to be balanced when every other stat already wants to be as relevant as int in combat.

 

[Delterius]

"I'M TRYING TO MAKE AN EXCUSE FOR THIS"

Whatever exactly am I trying to excuse by pointing out the current uses for strenght? I don't even like the current inventory system very much. I even started the post with 'to be fair'.

It just turns out that some people are very butthurt something and when that happens everything is about their suffering anus.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm curious how attributes will affect non-combat situations. Will there be as many str and dex checks in the game as there are int checks for it to be balanced when every other stat already wants to be as relevant as int in combat.

Probably not!

The way Sawyer has things set up, scripted/non-systemic checks don't actually have to be balanced/equally represented. They're not part of the "balance equation" at all, allowing the dialogue writers and quest designers to use them as they please (within reason, of course).

 

[uaciaut]

I'm curious how attributes will affect non-combat situations. Will there be as many str and dex checks in the game as there are int checks for it to be balanced when every other stat already wants to be as relevant as int in combat.

Probably not!

The way Sawyer has things set up, scripted/non-systemic checks don't actually have to be balanced/equally represented. They're not part of the "balance equation" at all, allowing the dialogue writers and quest designers to use them as they please (within reason, of course).

How does this not make Int completely overpowered then?
People will look the get the minimum str/con they can (although it's fair to say that people will look for lower margins with defensive stats in general unless they can be efficiently converted into offensive ones, which i why i found monk design interesting) and focus all they can on int. This even moreso with casters than fighters, who'll be more screwed up since all the stats are good for them so they have to sacrifice some stats ("specialize") or focus everything.

How is this balanced and why are people saying i'm trolling when i point it out? D:

 

[Infinitron]

I'm curious how attributes will affect non-combat situations. Will there be as many str and dex checks in the game as there are int checks for it to be balanced when every other stat already wants to be as relevant as int in combat.

Probably not!

The way Sawyer has things set up, scripted/non-systemic checks don't actually have to be balanced/equally represented. They're not part of the "balance equation" at all, allowing the dialogue writers and quest designers to use them as they please (within reason, of course).

How does this not make Int completely overpowered then?
People will look the get the minimum str/con they can (although it's fair to say that people will look for lower margins with defensive stats in general unless they can be efficiently converted into offensive ones, which i why i found monk design interesting) and focus all they can on int. This even moreso with casters than fighters, who'll be more screwed up since all the stats are good for them so they have to sacrifice some stats ("specialize") or focus everything.

How is this balanced and why are people saying i'm trolling when i point it out? D:

Delterius has spent the past few pages suggesting how it might not be unbalanced.

Personally, I suspect that Intellect's overall effect on damage will be small enough that it won't be as much of a "must have" as you suspect.

Would you sacrifice two inventory spots and twenty health points for two additional points of damage? I'm not sure I would.

Weapons and spells will be more important for damage than Intellect.

 

[Delterius]

Would you sacrifice two inventory spots

This is one crux of the question, I think.

I don't know you but I wasn't crazy enough to walk around with a Charname of subpar CON. Nonetheless, in theory, say, an archer PC doesn't need to care about Health. After all, its not like he'll be under the constant pressure that a fighter will suffer across the adventure.

However, what about item slots? How important are they? Indeed, since the quickslots themselves are a resource I'd say that the items could be designed as a very important part of the game. Much more than they were in other games. Moreso for a Wizard who suddenly needs to exchange his grimoires but can't since all he brought with him are health potions. Or maybe vice versa.

At which point we need to ask ourselves questions other than wether it makes sense for STR to affect melee damage. That's an issue, certainly, and especially if the system desires to create a contrast between really weak and really strong characters (after all, couldn't we easily buff our warriors into superhuman strenght? you'd think that would cause a little bit of a change, somewhat). We need to ask the role of items; of crafting and, more importantly, how versatile a weak character is meant to be. And wether the classes themselves are designed around the use of items. I mean, what if dumping STR gives you no item slots? Not such a pushover attribute now, is it?

 

[Lhynn]

No, we're attributing differences in combat prowess between two combat proficient individuals to the difference between their ability to fight smart and therefore the difference between their intelligence.

Strength should play role in stuff like all sorts of overpower checks, but not necessarily in raw damage.

Now you are just making it too easy, combat proficiency is a knowlege, it is something you learn, therefore i have no qualms with it being affected by intelligence.
If two untrained dudes hit the same spot, one extremely strong and the other about as strong as he needs to be to swing the axe. then clearly the dude with more strengh will have a bigger effect against the target.
Inteligence as a general stat to determine base damage for everything is an ilogical concept, as it has no direct effect on said strike.

PS: im actually hoping a retard breaks your face and then rapes your ass before the end of the month.

 

[uaciaut]

I'm curious how attributes will affect non-combat situations. Will there be as many str and dex checks in the game as there are int checks for it to be balanced when every other stat already wants to be as relevant as int in combat.

Probably not!

The way Sawyer has things set up, scripted/non-systemic checks don't actually have to be balanced/equally represented. They're not part of the "balance equation" at all, allowing the dialogue writers and quest designers to use them as they please (within reason, of course).

How does this not make Int completely overpowered then?
People will look the get the minimum str/con they can (although it's fair to say that people will look for lower margins with defensive stats in general unless they can be efficiently converted into offensive ones, which i why i found monk design interesting) and focus all they can on int. This even moreso with casters than fighters, who'll be more screwed up since all the stats are good for them so they have to sacrifice some stats ("specialize") or focus everything.

How is this balanced and why are people saying i'm trolling when i point it out? D:

Delterius has spent the past few pages suggesting how it might not be unbalanced.

Personally, I suspect that Intellect's overall effect on damage will be small enough that it won't be as much of a "must have" as you suspect.

Aren't you going out of your way to make sure the stat that affects damage has too little impact so that the others are relevant then? Don't really think this is the right way to get around it. I guess the gear itself will be more impactfull if that's the case. Still think this whole attribute thing could've been handled better.

 

[Arkadin]

Would you sacrifice two inventory spots and twenty health points for two additional points of damage? I'm not sure I would.

Weapons and spells will be more important for damage than Intellect.

I don't think I would either, but it's going to be hilarious when a lot of newbs just dump STR anyway, as the mechanics will be likely explained with idiot-proof clarity, because having extra health and inventory spots just doesn't seem "fun", particularly concerning the latter. They'll read that and say "that's boring, that's gay, I want more damage." You're just investing points at making your character not bad at something fundamental, not making him good or special. Then Josh will rage when a bunch of people quit the game after they can't get anywhere with only a handful of inventory spots.

 

[SCO]

i see simulation people

 

[Alex]

Did you call?

 

[DefJam101]

 

[Infinitron]

No KS updates until next year, Duraframe finally catches some sleep: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64850-holiday-break-limited-support-from-dec-21-jan-1/

Hi everyone,

Obsidian closes after Friday of this week for the holidays and reopens on Thursday, January 2nd, 2014.

During that time, support on the Eternity Backer Portal will be available, but will be limited. We've gotten through most of the open requests (if we haven't responded to you yet, you're up soon!), and you can visit my blog about what we've got coming up next on the site if you're interested.

We want to wish all of you a fun and safe holiday filled with nothing but playing games (oh and I suppose spending some time with family and friends is probably good too.

)

...and I'm going to be that guy right now:

"See you next year"

Darren

 

[Duraframe300]

No KS updates until next year, Duraframe finally catches some sleep: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64850-holiday-break-limited-support-from-dec-21-jan-1/

I've got exams coming uo in february so that's not gonna happen.

 

[coffeetable]

just realised what should have on his head:

 

[felipepepe]

I just checked something:

Joshua Eric "J.E." Sawyer (born October 18, 1975)

 

[Black_Willow]

snip

Go boxing with Pudzian, I'm sure you'll win because you're more inteligent.

 

[ASTRAL]

If they change the names to more abstract ones i will be ok with this.
It can be made pretty fun for example some sort off fantasy astrological zodiac that shapes your character .
Aspect of the Fire-give you more dmg
Aspect of the Earth-gives you more HP
Aspect of the Wind-gives you more mana

 

[Duraframe300]

Off-Topic' but was this already posted?

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AntiDanilevski/20131219/207425/Interview_with_Chris_Avellone.php

Hilarious interview with Chris Avellone. I have trouble figuring out how you can make one even more pretentious.

 

[Infinitron]

Off-Topic' but was this already posted?

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AntiDanilevski/20131219/207425/Interview_with_Chris_Avellone.php

Hilarious interview with Chris Avellone. I have trouble figuring out how you can make one even more pretentious.

He calls Dear Esther a non-game.

 

[Roguey]

It's interesting how all the rage is over damage when I've seen virtually no complaints about how the accuracy of any given attack or spell is determined by dexterity. When you attack an opponent it's their defense score (deflection, fortitude, reflex, or psyche) versus your attack score (always buffed or penalized by dexterity). You need to be dextrous to better hit someone with melee weapons, ranged weapons, ranged single-target and aoe damage spells, debuffs, crowd control, etc. No more no-save free rides.

One day the masses will thank JE for his easy-to-understand unified RPG system.