Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[imweasel]

While what he says is true... that's only because he removed weight limits, inventory size limits and basically anything that might make a player have to make a choice on what to take with them, of course its "busy work" if you make it into a list with no effect on gameplay.

Eternity never had an unlimited inventory, and anyway the point is the inventory isn't shared now. Watch the end of the presentation.

The stash is is unlimited. You can't access it everywhere (only at rest areas) but I would still consider it to be part of the inventory.

 

[Coyote]

Any proper, well-made RPG examples?

Haven't played it myself myself, but Mysteries of Westgate took place in a single city and was pretty well-received on the Codex IIRC.

 

[janjetina]

How does that convince you to get Imoen if you think of her as just another NPC who you can dump right after you continue the plot without any consequence?

We can extend this: if the narrative related motivation (family loyalty etc.) isn't enough, we add gameplay related motivation. The first consequence of Irenicus' experiments should be the emergence of Imoen's Bhallspawn powers, which should make her a very powerful i.e. useful companion. The side effects of Irenicus' experiments is temporary uncontrolled behaviour (like with some characters in JA2), Slayer transformation, etc. Beneficial powers themselves could have a 'wild' quality to them (think wild magic) as a side effect. Consequences of prolonged Irenicus' experiments would result in gradual diminishment of her power and the increase in side effects. Additionally, the PC, with an access to Irenicus' machinery (and being Bhallspawn himself), would be able to syphon away Imoen's powers (stat checks on how much she tries and manages to resist) and make himself more powerful (with added side effects), while leaving Imoen as an ordinary character with no Bhallspawn powers (but very prone to panic and similar random status effects), or a useless husk in a vegetative state to be discarded or killed, depending on the amount of powers syphoned (PC's decision) and PC's stats.

To provide the impetus for continuing the plot after the Underdark part, as the result of the experiments Imoen's transformation into the Slayer (provided that she is kept alive) should be quicker (going through a number of well defined stages) than player's own, with its speed depending on the amount of damage done by the experiments (representing the foreshadowing for the player and enticing the player to go through the final parts plot after the underdark a bit more quickly - be too slow and at the certain point Imoen fully turns into uncontrollable Slayer that needs to be put down - and after some time this would also happen to the player who happens to be a retard who doesn't get a clue).

That would represent gameplay related consequences (party would become more powerful) tied to the narrative, that could be well integrated with stat checks, with the 'evil' choice bringing greater power to the PC (along with the side effects that go along). Now the selfish yet scrupulous PC has the impetus to hurry up to get a powerful party member, while selfish yet unscrupulous PC has the impetus to hurry up to become more powerful himself. It also puts greater emphasis onto Bhallspawn powers and Slayer transformation, tying narrative and gameplay.

Additional dream sequences (telepathic connection between the PC and Imoen is plausible given the common ancestry and the emergence of Imoen's Bhaalpowers caused by the experiments) could do fine to inform the player to hurry up. If the player still doesn't want to, or doesn't get the clues, so be it. Tears of a dumb Biowhore who completed all the sidequests before going to rescue Imoen and start the incest mod related content and finding a feebleminded zombie instead of the intended waifu would adequately slake my thirst.

Naturally, this would be blasphemy for the balance cultists like J. Edgar Sawyer.

 

[Infinitron]

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...d=17931&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post423937554

Yes, you will be able to name your games and the saves will be grouped by PC. Additionally, Trial of Iron save games use a metal texture instead of wood.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...d=17931&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post423966488

Icept posted:
My only question is, do you think you could go back to doing heavily publisher mandated work after this?

With the right publisher and the right project, sure. Some publishers get weird ickies when they deal with RPGs because so few external producers have serious experience with them. They wind up asking for incredibly bad/not fun things because they don't really understand the genre (on PC, console, or otherwise).

 

[hiver]

Additionally, the PC, with an access to Irenicus' machinery (and being Bhallspawn himself), would be able to syphon away Imoen's powers

Hardly. I doubt having the machinery is enough for that. Irenicus was a genius and an extraordinary sorcerer - while being Bhaalspawn had nothing to do with it.

 

[janjetina]

Well, we can say that Irenicus invested a huge portion of his genius and power to make the machinery, so the machinery itself is 'magical', but it requires knowledge to operate (stat and skill checks, maybe a puzzle based information gathering subquest possibility) and the PC probably wouldn't be as successful as Irenicus in operating it (hence the side effects). "Power extraction" part would be more 'knowledge / machinery based' (Irenicus has already tuned the machinery for that effect, the PC 'only' has to 'know' to use it), while "power insertion" part, which is more "genius based" would be facilitated by the PCs Bhaalspawn power affinity (without it it would take the Irenicus' level of aptitude and knowledge, which would be too high requirement for a non-Bhaalspawn).

Infinitron, stop advertising malicious websites.

 

[Athelas]

Or you can, you know, not use the 'waifu in distress' as a plot device in the first place.

 

[hiver]

Well, we can say that Irenicus invested a huge portion of his genius and power to make the machinery, so the machinery itself is 'magical', but it requires knowledge to operate (stat and skill checks, maybe a puzzle based information gathering subquest possibility) and the PC probably wouldn't be as successful as Irenicus in operating it (hence the side effects). "Power extraction" part would be more 'knowledge / machinery based' (Irenicus has already tuned the machinery for that effect, the PC 'only' has to 'know' to use it), while "power insertion" part, which is more "genius based" would be facilitated by the PCs Bhaalspawn power affinity (without it it would take the Irenicus' level of aptitude and knowledge, which would be too high requirement for a non-Bhaalspawn).

Infinitron, stop advertising malicious websites.

Thats is sufficient amount of hand waving for a BG game. Accepted.

Or you can, you know, not use the 'waifu in distress' as a plot device in the first place.

Why? To lose direct connection to primary biological imperative of most of the males on the planet ?

 

[Hormalakh]

Why? To lose direct connection to primary biological imperative of most of the males on the planet ?

you mean other than the fact that imoen is your half-sister?

 

[hiver]

yes. thats not a primary one.

 

[Roguey]

whats the dumb d with a curve and a cross

traditionally eth is a voiced th and thorn is unvoiced but over time they started getting used interchangeably

if you play dragon age the eth is also known as "fantasy d".

While what he says is true... that's only because he removed weight limits, inventory size limits and basically anything that might make a player have to make a choice on what to take with them, of course its "busy work" if you make it into a list with no effect on gameplay.

Inventory management in the IE games was mostly busywork.

 

[Utgard-Loki]

"this character is too far away"

it was one of the most annoying things in the game. good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[Arkeus]

While what he says is true... that's only because he removed weight limits, inventory size limits and basically anything that might make a player have to make a choice on what to take with them, of course its "busy work" if you make it into a list with no effect on gameplay.

I...huh...what?

The inventory has both weight limits and inventory size limits. Or have you missed the dozens of pages bitching about how strength limit not only the weight you can carry, but also your number of inventory slots?

 

[Hormalakh]

i don't think the inventory limits have actually been set yet. based on sawyer's last iteration, he said that strength limits the character's inventory size. stash is still there as far as i'm aware.

 

[Arkeus]

i don't think the inventory limits have actually been set yet. based on sawyer's last iteration, he said that strength limits the character's inventory size. stash is still there as far as i'm aware.

Stash is basically "sending a mule back to our house with our loot" stuff, or in BG speak "putting stuff in chests".

 

[Hormalakh]

depending on how long items would last on a map, not really. i can't remember if dropped items would disappear after returning to a map, but if so, you could only pick up as much stuff as your left-over inventory allowed. everything else was lost. you couldn't literally pick everything up.

 

[Arkeus]

depending on how long items would last on a map, not really. i can't remember if dropped items would disappear after returning to a map, but if so, you could only pick up as much stuff as your left-over inventory allowed. everything else was lost. you couldn't literally pick everything up.

There always were chests lying around in every mpas. If you are OCD enough (and i know people who were) you could esignate a chest for each map where you put all the stuff you don't keep on you. You then use those chest when you need to sell stuff for money.

 

[Roguey]

I...huh...what?

The inventory has both weight limits and inventory size limits. Or have you missed the dozens of pages bitching about how strength limit not only the weight you can carry, but also your number of inventory slots?

No ever complained about that. If anything they complained about Sawyer not going quasi-sim about it. No items have weight (this would result in tedious shuffling).

 

[DraQ]

(this would result in tedious shuffling).

Wizardry 8 had shared party inventory where summed up weight of items was allocated to characters automatically.
It was a good solution if you wanted to abstractfag the inventory management, with individual inventory being limited to only handy item slots.

There always were chests lying around in every mpas. If you are OCD enough (and i know people who were) you could esignate a chest for each map where you put all the stuff you don't keep on you. You then use those chest when you need to sell stuff for money.

My god, you've just invented a way to make BG1 thousands of times more tedious.

I... I didn't realize such thing was possible.

 

[dunno lah]

I stuffed plenty of shit in chests the 1st (and only) time playing it. Stupidest thing I've done in BG1 too.

 

[Space Satan]

Answers time:
silkvalley asked: A question about encounter design in Pillars of Eternity; individual approach vs randomization. I'd like to know if enemies will be equipped by hand (weapons, armor, amulets etc.) to sort of fit into specific combat encounters, or do you plan to randomize their gear?
Most enemies will be equipped with specific weapons. Some may be lightly randomized, e.g. enemies that have a variety of two-handed melee weapons equipped.

This one is big:
shockerhopper asked: There's no denying that many people just plain hate Forgotten Realms, the biggest grievances often being absurdly overpowered or just plain ridiculous NPCs like Elminster and Drizzt. As someone who has worked so intensely with FR what are some of your least favorite aspects of the setting? Are there any elements of it you'd like to directly subvert or even outright criticize in PE?

Spoiler

For me, it’s mostly a lack of consistency (especially in earlier editions), though a lot of that is understandable due to how the setting developed over time. I never really had a big problem with characters I didn’t like; I just didn’t use them in my campaigns. In a lot of A/D&D settings (FR included), magic reaches Sorcerer’s Apprentice/Fantasia levels where it’s commonly used for all sorts of mundane stuff. I usually like magic in settings to be, if not rare, at least constrained in some ways so it fees like there are still unexplored/unknown elements to the world and a genuine need for labor that “easy” magic might logically negate.

Personally, I get bored with subversion. I’m more interested in exploring the things that I like that I also feel many players will also enjoy.

In any setting, I like thinking about how it would develop from the perspectives of the people (and creatures, and other forces) in it. I feel like it makes the world more believable. The world is an omnipresent character in all of the stories that take place in it. If a player or reader can believe in a world as much as he or she believes in any other character, the world can grow and change in ways that can move the audience. I don’t want to create worlds that feel like static characters. I want them to feel like they develop based on the actions of the people within them — not just extraordinarily powerful individuals, but everyday people as well.

In fantasy, we have characters who can accomplish amazing things. I don’t think that means we need to create settings where they bestride their narrow worlds like colossi, ordinary folks living and dying in their shadows. I don’t read a lot of comics, but I always remember this cover from Heroes Against Hunger:

http://www.batman4sale.biz/wp-conte...986-Heroes-Against-Hunger-x1-1.5-DC-Comic.jpg

Lex Luthor says, “They’re dying, Superman — and not all your power can save them!”

That’s really saying something, because it’s Superman. He can do almost anything, but he can’t just make famine go away. Believable worlds — even magical ones — have believable problems and even extraordinary ass-kickers and fireball-hurlers can’t solve all of them.

This is going off tangent a bit, but when I was working with John Gonzalez, who was the creative lead and main story architect for Fallout: New Vegas (and the author of the Survivalist’s journals in Honest Hearts, since I get a lot of questions about that), there were a few things I kept insisting he had to include. One of the major elements was that during the final act of the game, the player had to be directed to interact with actual people (human or otherwise) during the approach to the end of the game.

Whatever chip-inserting, lever-pulling stuff the Courier was involved with took a backseat to interacting with with people in the different factions. I felt that needed to happen so the player would come face-to-face with the actual problems that these folks had. More than the threat of physical destruction, they were worried about other things: their identity, their independence, their sense of purpose. The Courier’s participation in the Second Battle of Hoover Dam was not the end of the game as much as it was the validation stage for all of the choices the player made to reach that point.

And when the slides started showing up, not everything worked out the way the player wanted. A lot of it did — sometimes most of it did — but there were always things that went awry, plans that developed in unexpected ways, characters that went off in their own directions. Not everyone likes that, but I definitely do and I believe that enough players also like it that it was a valid course to take.

With PE, I will continue to push for that sort of world development, places and problems that seem believable in their own fantastic way, with the player able to step in and make some difference — maybe even a big difference — but not all the difference. It should be a place where the world moves on with you but also in spite of you.

Some of this is in the setup of the world itself. It’s a Renaissance-esque setting. Obviously it’s not literally the Renaissance, but it has some of the same elements. One of the most prominent to a lot of players is the fact that there are early firearms in the world. It has made some players think about the setting differently. More importantly, though this will come across more in the story, the time in which the story of PoE takes place is during an age of discovery. Animancy is a young and rapidly-developing field. With the development of animancy comes technology that can significantly change the lives (and deaths) of people in the world — not just kings and knights, but all sorts of people.

Hopefully these approaches will help us create a setting that feels like it is developing in ways that the player wants to help mold, that we can change from game to game and story to story.

bubbonicus asked: Hello, Josh. Two questions: 1. Mask of the Betrayer and Spirit Eating mechanic. If you could now - would you change how it worked or leave it as it was? How, in your opinion, it should work and affect the player?; 2. What is your opinion about time restrictions in cRPG games, like constantly depleting spirit meter, Fallout time limit, or BG2 thieves guild weekly quote requirements?

I didn’t have much input on the Spirit Eater mechanic outside of general player feedback. I think that maintenance mechanics (like the SE mechanic or like repair mechanics in games like F3/FNV) are often poorly-received unless they greatly increase players’ sense of immersion in the setting.

I really hate to appeal to irrationality, but if the SE mechanic were presented as a bonus/buff that the player could voluntarily utilize through the consumption of souls, I think it would have been better received. However, I do think that would have made it less thematically appropriate (since it is ultimately a curse).

In general, players respond negatively to time/vital resource limits (often due to anxiety) unless they find some way to stop or reset the clock. Majora’s Mask is one of the only games I can think of that manages to use a time limit in a way that creates tension but (generally) doesn’t annoy players.

 

[SCO]

It's so startling to see actual genre nuance on a game designer.

 

[DraQ]

If the magic isn't rare and constrained the setting can't really be just X+wizards.

It might be Bas-Lag, or at the very least Morrowind.

 

[Space Satan]

ashtonw asked: Would you ever, or have you already, include trans characters in any of your games?
I haven’t developed any trans* characters in the past but if they made sense in a setting and story, sure.

 

[Scruffy]

ashtonw asked: Would you ever, or have you already, include trans characters in any of your games?
I haven’t developed any trans* characters in the past but if they made sense in a setting and story, sure.