Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Lhynn]

Roguey has made it clear that she considers all RPGs made thus far to be bad.

If she just had that in her signature so many arguments would be avoided.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

These sentences contradict each other.

Check your own posts about "trash" and "envision myself liking non Josh games" (paraphrasing here). You contradict yourself with this claim. Your Double Standards stink of privilege.

You keep parroting me like a child would.

Double Standards Again.

While it pleases me to reduce an (allegedly) adult man to a baby,

I am not interested in your fetishes.

I've had enough.

Got tired of defending Josh's laziness and ineptitude?
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?members/chaotic_heretic.16711/ignore

Roguey has made it clear that she considers all RPGs made thus far to be bad.

That is not the same as not liking them.

Yep, but he also said, he can envision himself liking non Josh game (Probability tends to zero though). I too think all RTwP is trash. But I can envision myself liking a well done one. (BW2>IWD2 for example... so something can be better than BG2) Then his double standards come to fore.
Whining like a little bitch...oh no plz leave josh and his godlikes alone...you don't even like RTwP. I've had enough you meanie

This quote makes Josh sound like an Place fingers in ears, close eyes and yell, "LA LA LA LA" assclown, but he doesn't actually dismiss the legitimacy of negative feedback in the original post. Ironically enough, Roguey's policy of not citing the sources does Josh injustice in this case.

Loss of context due to the lack of source link, is the reason why you should disregard anything Roguey quotes and ask for source.

I can't be the only one looking at this game and barf at this blatant, cheap copy of plane-touched from D&D? Fire/Air/Water/Earth/etc. Genasi.

Some say cheap copy, others say homage. It is what it is!

I should add that in D&D, they are retarded and boring and one of the most uninteresting races so if you're going to rip off stuff, rip off interesting things. I know this is just idiotic rage that's ultimately pointless but this "safe" approach just seems boring. Let's hope the game is fun to play; it's not making or breaking it, but it shows just how generic, vanilla and derived this is. If you're gonna go that route you still need to infuse it with some kind of unique charm and I hope they manage that.

Laziness and/or Ineptitude. Either he is scared of balancing that. Or he is unable to do so. And tbh, Only the Cypher concept has me going... Mmmh this is interesting. Ecxecution can still be shit though. Its Obsidian after all.

Well, what do you suppose is the reason, then?

Josh is scared of balancing, or is unable to balance it. Also, pandering to them cazuals.

You roll a character, you play the game, you have incentive to replay the game and get to play the content you've missed out on during the first playthrough. The game should not overly punish you for it, because it's a given that during your first playthrough your decisions during character creation are bound to have been at least partly uninformed and we are not playing a roguelike, but at the same time it should make difference enough to generate replay value.

Josh knows that this whole nostalgia funded project is banal and drab with everything in the "safe" zone (lacks any charm so to speak) so why bother adding re-playability... more balance working for him.

 

[Witiko]

Roguey, Chaotic_Heretic:
So glad you picked up the slack at derailing the thread after me and hiver. Not all is yet lost.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Roguey, Chaotic_Heretic:
So glad you picked up the slack at derailing the thread after me and hiver, not all is yet lost.

It is on topic. The Topic is how godlikes in P:E are bland, uninspiring and copy pasta. Unless of course some moderaptor decides to split it.

 

[hiver]

actually... considering the rest of the content of this thread, we were right about on topic.


- edit-
hah, ninjaed.


CH is a bit too pesimistic, though. Usually im on the more optimistic side of the fence about PoE and Josh ideas.
Been pretty much contrarian to all screams of dread and destruction of fun so far, throughout.

Goth heads are, of course, a direct copy of the tiefliengs and such from DnD. Why not? The game is supposed to be a "copy" of those specific games and that was a part of the setting, especially in... ahem, NWN games...
Though, fortunately, we have a good example of MotB there.

Not that these "races" and ideas did any good even there. Im just saying it was a good NWN game. The only one.

I think you could just remove Gothheads from PoE and not loose anything. MotB didnt especially benefit from them, except it was a high level campaign so you had to have something ... high level.

But, as long as they are there - they should have some actually interesting role to play.
Which, if mechanics and stats arent so different, would depend the most on writing.
Which...will have to wait for a while longer.


But - if it turns out they dont have any such role either, except some very superficial changes to dialogue, then the whole concept would turn out to be just dead weight, from the start.
It does smells a bit too much like some specific DnD stuff, something of its many bad parts, that never really worked.
Not something you would want to see carried forward.




-
Someone should ask Josh or other writers what are they planing for these Goth bigheads, narrative, lore, politics, history and quest C&C wise.

 

[Lhynn]

Roguey, Chaotic_Heretic:
So glad you picked up the slack at derailing the thread after me and hiver, not all is yet lost.

It is on topic. The Topic is how godlikes in P:E are bland, uninspiring and copy pasta. Unless of course some moderaptor decides to split it.

i thought it was about arches.

 

[Jagged Appliance]

I thought it was about Roguey.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Maybe Godlikes should just be removed as a default race entirely. Make it something you have to quest for. Like if you do enough things the god of death likes then he gives you that power.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

i thought it was about arches.

It has already been established that the arches were a product of cheap shoddy outsourced artwork with floating rocks and all.

I think you could just remove Gothheads from PoE and not loose anything.

As they are implemented now, yes.

But, as long as they are there - they should have some actually interesting role to play.
Which, if mechanics and stats arent so different, would depend the most on writing.
Which...will have to wait for a while longer.

Bingo. The only thing where Obsidian has delivered is writing. Although their last game was Dungeon Siege 3...which was p. lackluster writing wise.

But - if it turns out they dont have any such role either, except some very superficial changes to dialogue, then the whole concept would turn out to be just dead weight, from the start.
It does smells a bit too much like some specific DnD stuff, something of its many bad parts, that never really worked.
Not something you would want to see carried forward.

Exactly. Do it well, or don't do it at all. This I think is one of Josh's cardinal motto. He axed many features citing problems in smooth implementation and balance, of which, i recall Quest Structure would be like Fallout, supernatural event sets you off and then you explore and do stuff. Axed to something between IWD to BG2 now. Also multi-clasing. From possibility to lol nope... too much balancing.

Someone should ask Josh or other writers what are they planing for these Goth bigheads, narrative, lore, politics, history and quest C&C wise.

Infinitron, Hormalakh, coffeetable, Sensuki you guys are active in Obsidian forums and Goon central right? Also if godlieks are chosen, will there be Reactivity depending on the base race? i would guess a bit of flavour, or none at all.


hiver, the main reasons for my pessimism are:
Unity is a shit engine, very unoptimized: the stutters outdoors in MMX, the corridor map design of WL2...although this could be because inXile lacks talent, also in one of them interviews, some guy from Daedalic mentioned they decided to have static town screens becasue unity was slowing down significantly with a proper town.

When they have an unfamiliar tech, most of the team's energy goes nto figuring out how to use that tech...resulting in lackluster stuff in other departments. NWN2 OC vs MOTB (the expansion itself had many improvements in the camera, for one)

There is also how Josh and P:E in general, is staying so "safe", removing big fun spikes and instead focusing on the moment to moment fun gameplay. I am not very optimistic about that.

 

[Apexeon]

i thought it was about arches.

It has already been established that the arches were a product of cheap shoddy outsourced artwork with floating rocks and all.

Wow with 4 million and there awesome art department they had to outsource?
What a pack of artistic wimps.

I could fix those arches in a few hours.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Wow with 4 million and there awesome art department they had to outsource?

You answer it yourself...atleast partially.

What a pack of artistic wimps.

Although I would argue that they can't retain good talent. George Ziets and B. Mitsoda for example. Maybe the situations similar in the art department.

I could fix those arches in a few hours.

Don't do thier work for free though. You have a family and expenses IIRC. (my roomate deleted my .txt )
IMO, You should wait for the full game and if all the art fuck-ups aren't corrected with thier "passes" (filters). Then correct maybe one or two of thier fuck-ups and negotiate outsourced artwork/ artwork reworking for thier next project.

 

[Apexeon]

i thought it was about arches.

It has already been established that the arches were a product of cheap shoddy outsourced artwork with floating rocks and all.

Wow with 4 million and there awesome art department they had to outsource?
What a pack of artistic wimps.

I could fix those arches in a few hours.

Don't do thier work for free though. You have a family and expenses IIRC. (my roomate deleted my .txt )
IMO, You should wait for the full game and if all the art fuck-ups aren't corrected with thier "passes" (filters). Then correct maybe one or two of thier fuck-ups and negotiate outsourced artwork/ artwork reworking for thier next project.

The floating arches don't work (magical glue or not). They break the scene in my opinion and the art director should of been onto this in my opinion. Concept art failure?

Good point on the free work.
I accept American express or your finest cask wine from Wine express.com

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

The floating arches don't work (magical glue or not). They break the scene in my opinion and the art director should of been onto this in my opinion. Concept art failure?

A cheap rushed low priority job (likely since its outsourced) and/or incompetence (on the part of the concept artist and whoever gave the go ahead after reviewing it).

 

[Akratus]

He's saying that calling developers lazy isn't valid

I don't see how it's not. If the game looks lazy then it's lazy. If you really worked hard on a product that stinks of laziness then you simply suck.
Or maybe you're a slow worker, which is no crime, but well, maybe wait before you actually do something worth of notice before screaming that you're misunderstood genius.

You think Project Eternity is lazy? What, haven't you ever heard of "We are too lazy to even make the right weapon appear in your hands in cinematics, 3 games straight"-Bioware?

 

[Goegoff]

Maybe Godlikes should just be removed as a default race entirely. Make it something you have to quest for. Like if you do enough things the god of death likes then he gives you that power.

Or perhaps You could romance a god?

 

[Tytus]

Maybe Godlikes should just be removed as a default race entirely. Make it something you have to quest for. Like if you do enough things the god of death likes then he gives you that power.

Or perhaps You could romance a god?

I want to fuck a god, but under one condition, I don't want her to be under the guise of a swan, when I'm doing it.

 

[Apexeon]

Maybe Godlikes should just be removed as a default race entirely. Make it something you have to quest for. Like if you do enough things the god of death likes then he gives you that power.

Or perhaps You could romance a god?

I want to fuck a god, but under one condition, I don't want her to be under the guise of a swan, when I'm doing it.

What about a goat ?

 

[Tytus]

Maybe Godlikes should just be removed as a default race entirely. Make it something you have to quest for. Like if you do enough things the god of death likes then he gives you that power.

Or perhaps You could romance a god?

I want to fuck a god, but under one condition, I don't want her to be under the guise of a swan, when I'm doing it.

What about a goat ?

I'll have to consider it.

 

[Apexeon]

Maybe Godlikes should just be removed as a default race entirely. Make it something you have to quest for. Like if you do enough things the god of death likes then he gives you that power.

Or perhaps You could romance a god?

I want to fuck a god, but under one condition, I don't want her to be under the guise of a swan, when I'm doing it.

What about a goat ?

I'll have to consider it.

If you drink enough wine the swan might do.
Talking from errr em.

 

[Goegoff]

I want to fuck a god, but under one condition, I don't want her to be under the guise of a swan, when I'm doing it.

Her? I have some bad news for You...

 

[Tytus]

I want to fuck a god, but under one condition, I don't want her to be under the guise of a swan, when I'm doing it.

Her? I have some bad news for You...

 

[Roguey]

You roll a character, you play the game, you have incentive to replay the game and get to play the content you've missed out on during the first playthrough. The game should not overly punish you for it, because it's a given that during your first playthrough your decisions during character creation are bound to have been at least partly uninformed and we are not playing a roguelike, but at the same time it should make difference enough to generate replay value.

"Replayability is a side-effect of non-linear quest design and supporting role-playing in general, not a goal in itself."

You think Project Eternity is lazy? What, haven't you ever heard of "We are too lazy to even make the right weapon appear in your hands in cinematics, 3 games straight"-Bioware?

Resources spent on giving everyone class-specific weapons in cutscenes are resources not being spent elsewhere. What would you give up for that feature?
http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/5042512/3

You think people on these forums pick things apart? Literally amateurs. Sometimes it's a good kind of thing, where a game surprises me because I was expecting the obvious design step and get blindsided. But there are games that the other writers will not mention for it will start "the rant," and woe be to he who is downhill of that. Mostly it's a backhanded compliment for games that I desperately wanted to like, and there was something just... wrong. Kind of a "you could have the best game EVER, why won't you let me love you!" which sounds creepy and stalker-y, because it is.

But here is the thing that many don't do, that I feel I must if I want to learn and progress the form. I take a step back and remember the cruel questions I pose to people who want to be in this industry:

What is your favorite game?
What was its biggest flaw and what would you have done to fix it?
Why did that flaw HAVE to be there, and what would your fix break?

That last one is kind of unfair to ask, and it doesn't really make sense until you're the one with your finger on the trigger. It's never a simple answer, not like the conspiracy statements we see a lot on here. Games are not steered by whim. They are great lumbering beasts that do not course-correct without a huge amount of effort across multiple departments. That thing that seems obviously wrong, that element that bugs the hell out of you, it's a load bearing member for something that would have collapsed, or it's the stiches holding the wound left by something that could have come out of writing, coding, art, VO, schedule, budget, genre, anything. As a result, playing games for me is as much about what isn't there as what is.

 

[Akratus]

Gee, yeah, that tiny bit of coding would have costed them such precious time writing their great stories and characters, implementing far reaching c&c and refining their stellar gameplay.

 

[Tytus]

Resources spent on giving everyone class-specific weapons in cutscenes are resources not being spent elsewhere. What would you give up for that feature?
http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/5042512/3

The multi-player section, obviously.

 

[Roguey]

Gee, yeah, that tiny bit of coding

This requires more than you think it does. The cinematic designers also have to make sure all possible variations of the scenes look fine.

costed them such precious time writing their great stories and characters, implementing far reaching c&c and refining their stellar gameplay.

You're exaggerating but it could always be worse. Bioware doesn't have the worst-everything-ever.