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Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

Roguey

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Same argument here, except with RTwP.
It's not the same because I can envision myself liking a certain kind of RPG, whereas you will never like any kind of implementation of rtwp.

But, Other things equal, a human godlike is of equal resolve as other humans.
Divine souls are comparable to human souls when it comes to resolve. Not seeing the problem here.

And a human godlike has lesser might compared to other humans.
Or here either. Why should they have more might other than your wanting to impose your beliefs on how beings who don't exist in reality should work?

Yet. They could modify the godlikes they haven't released.
"They could make a whole bunch of art changes they decided not to do during pre-production based on my whims"--you.

Easily modified. instead of 4 digits and an opposable thumb with itsy bitsy claws, Three thick digits and opposable thumb ending with large talons, or some variation thereof so that gloves become unusable.
I don't see the benefits of adding this as a feature, it adds a lot more balance-work for a visual you can hardly even make out. The pros of playing a godlike over other races is a better passive than everyone else, a more-interesting head to look at, and significantly better reactions from some people. The cons are no helmet and significantly worse reactions from others.

When you chose a kensai in BG2 (or any other class with restrictions) you couldn't negotiate your inability to use bows/crossbows/slings/darts, armor, or gauntlets/bracers. Still a popular class to play as.

Strawman. Critic and Cook analogy.
Critics analyze products that have actually been released, they don't assess a product and personally attack the people who made it before it's finished.

Strawman.
Your new favorite buzzword.

F:NV isn't P:E. Their funding, development and feedback models are entirely dfferent.
Irrelevant. Have another quote.
Josh said:
Conversely, what a person perceives, imagines, hypothesizes, and ultimately expresses does not necessarily have any bearing on reality. You know what you did. You know how you did it. You know the hours you put in. You know what you made and how it works. Anything a person says to the contrary is ultimately irrelevant unless they're in a position to legitimately defame you.
Enjoy being irrelevant. +M

[derail]
Religion is not Race, sir.
You're either being incredibly ignorant or disingenuous.
 
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It's not the same because I can envision myself liking a certain kind of RPG, whereas you will never like any kind of implementation of rtwp.
All implementations of RTwP are trash. Of course BG2 is a lot less trashier than IWD2. IWD falls in between. Theoretically, i can envision myself liking RTwP:cool:

Divine souls are comparable to human souls when it comes to resolve. Not seeing the problem here.
Your leliana justification makes it clear. laziness and Incompetence is fine with you.

Or here either. Why should they have more might other than your wanting to impose your beliefs on how beings who don't exist in reality should work?
Godlikes are supposed to be "greater" in your own words...yet they lack might and are of equal resolve in comparision to humans. Lore doesn't justify mechanics.

"They could make a whole bunch of art changes they decided not to do during pre-production based on my whims"--you.
I know investing effort is tiresome. He can't do interesting stuff, balance holds him back apparently.

I don't see the benefits of adding this as a feature,
Variety. Meaningful Choice.

it adds a lot more balance-work for a visual you can hardly even make out.
Patronizing laziness again are we...

The pros of playing a godlike over other races is a better passive than everyone else, a more-interesting head to look at, and significantly better reactions from some people. The cons are no helmet and significantly worse reactions from others.
Again no variety among godlike variant stat bonuses, also base race is effectively cosmetic. It would have more honest, if they said only humans have godlikes and each godliek variant was more unique. but josh shoddily copy pasted to claim ALL RACES ahve godlikes. Chechkbok ticked. Next Design Decision.

When you chose a kensai in BG2 (or any other class with restrictions) you couldn't negotiate your inability to use bows/crossbows/slings/darts, armor, or gauntlets/bracers. Still a popular class to play as.
IT was popular with people not becasue of the unbalanced restrictions, but how they could mondblut it with dual classing.
kensai 13> mage. The synergy in this is obvious. kensai 13> thief. Once you get HLA, equip whatever you want and proceed to use time stop traps and rape stuff.
These were fun, because the possibilities of dual classing. Sawyer removed that from P:E cause he is scared of extra balancing work. So godlikes cannot be seen in the same light as kensai in terms of appeal.

Critics analyze products that have actually been released, they don't assess a product and personally attack the people who made it before it's finished.
Game Design is not Cooking. And you should stop commenting on Games that haven't been released then.

Your new favorite buzzword.
Your tactics consist of logical fallacies. And i only remember the spelling of Strawman :M

Irrelevant. Have another quote.
yes, your opinion is.


Josh said:
Conversely, what a person perceives, imagines, hypothesizes, and ultimately expresses does not necessarily have any bearing on reality.
So Josh seems like a fan of LSD.

You know what you did. You know how you did it. You know the hours you put in. You know what you made and how it works. Anything a person says to the contrary is ultimately irrelevant unless they're in a position to legitimately defame you.
And Butthurt.
Enjoy being irrelevant. +M
Your new Buzzword.

You're either being incredibly ignorant or disingenuous.
You're either being retarded or trolling. Anyways, You will have to wait till i get GD access for further "debate" on this derail topic. Or you can donate in my name and get me GD Access Early. :M
 

FeelTheRads

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[armchair designing and producing intensifies]

:lol:
Look who's talking. The one who KNOWS how every game should be developed, except the ones made by Sawyer which are just perfection.
Tells us again about how companies run out of money for one reason or another, how certain features should be implemented before others and all the other retarded, ignorant, uneducated and parroted shit you spew out daily. We never tire of it.

Conversely, what a person perceives, imagines, hypothesizes, and ultimately expresses does not necessarily have any bearing on reality. You know what you did. You know how you did it. You know the hours you put in. You know what you made and how it works. Anything a person says to the contrary is ultimately irrelevant unless they're in a position to legitimately defame you.

In other words: critics are mean, i'm a pretty butterfly
 

Witiko

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Conversely, what a person perceives, imagines, hypothesizes, and ultimately expresses does not necessarily have any bearing on reality. You know what you did. You know how you did it. You know the hours you put in. You know what you made and how it works. Anything a person says to the contrary is ultimately irrelevant unless they're in a position to legitimately defame you.

In other words: critics are mean, i'm a pretty butterfly
This quote makes Josh sound like an Place fingers in ears, close eyes and yell, "LA LA LA LA" assclown, but he doesn't actually dismiss the legitimacy of negative feedback in the original post. Ironically enough, Roguey's policy of not citing the sources does Josh injustice in this case.

Chaotic_Heretic:
Agreed that the lack of variety, when it comes to which slot should be locked out, is pure laziness. Even moreso, since their own made-up lore (wings, horns, strange birthmarks, talons, odd eyes) doesn't match the mechanics.
 

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
This quote makes Josh sound like an Place fingers in ears, close eyes and yell, "LA LA LA LA" sort of an asshole, but he doesn't actually dismiss the legitimacy of negative feedback in the original post. Ironically enough, Roguey's policy of not citing the sources does Josh injustice in this case.

Chaotic_Heretic:
Agreed that the lack of variety, when it comes to which slot should be locked out, is pure laziness. Even moreso, since their own made-up lore doesn't match the mechanics.
He's saying that calling developers lazy isn't valid, but saying their games sucks can be.
 

Witiko

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He's saying that calling developers lazy isn't valid, but saying their games sucks can be.
Which I can get behind. I think it matters little whether they are lazy or not, because at the end of the day the game still sucks, but it's a fair point.
 

Infinitron

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
their own made-up lore (wings, horns, strange birthmarks, talons, odd eyes) doesn't match the mechanics.

Not quite, since it's possible that Godlikes can have all of those things AND all of them have weird heads.

In fact, since that's what they're creating, that is in fact "the lore". It's not just your character, after all. All the Godlike NPCs you'll meet in the game won't wear helmets either.
 

Witiko

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their own made-up lore (wings, horns, strange birthmarks, talons, odd eyes) doesn't match the mechanics.

Not quite, since it's possible that Godlikes can have all of those things AND all of them have weird heads.
Well, they clearly do, as far as the mechanics go. I just don't think that was the original intent (takes quite a stretch of imagination to interpret the update this way) and it seems more like a *meh, I'm not ballancing this* on Sawyer's part.

EDIT: The early concept art only supports this general feeling, since the first godlike depicted seems like it could wear a helmet without any issue:

pe-godlike-head-concepts.jpg
 
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Infinitron

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
their own made-up lore (wings, horns, strange birthmarks, talons, odd eyes) doesn't match the mechanics.

Not quite, since it's possible that Godlikes can have all of those things AND all of them have weird heads.
Well, they clearly do, as far as the mechanics go. I just don't think that was the original intent (takes quite a stretch of imagination to interpret the update this way) and is just a *meh, I'm not ballancing this* on Sawyer's part.

For all we know, the "original intent" may have been no equipment restrictions at all, with all that stuff being purely cosmetic.

Godlikes in PoE have weird heads and can't wear helmets, just like supermutants in Fallout (eg, Marcus) have weird torsos and can't wear armor. I don't see why you would need any further sperging out over one single race
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
I can't be the only one looking at this and barf at this blatant, cheap copy of plane-touched from D&D? Fire/Air/Water/Earth/etc. Genasi.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
I can't be the only one looking at this game and barf at this blatant, cheap copy of plane-touched from D&D? Fire/Air/Water/Earth/etc. Genasi.

Some say cheap copy, others say homage. It is what it is!
I should add that in D&D, they are retarded and boring and one of the most uninteresting races so if you're going to rip off stuff, rip off interesting things. I know this is just idiotic rage that's ultimately pointless but this "safe" approach just seems boring. Let's hope the game is fun to play; it's not making or breaking it, but it shows just how generic, vanilla and derived this is. If you're gonna go that route you still need to infuse it with some kind of unique charm and I hope they manage that.
 

Abelian

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I can't be the only one looking at this and barf at this blatant, cheap copy of plane-touched from D&D? Fire/Air/Water/Earth/etc. Genasi.
The classical elements were in use since the Ancient Greek philosophers. So the system while unimaginative, at least it's intuitive and familiar.
 

BrickManslab

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They do? I've always found that music is the one area where game developers tend to do a more or less consistently decent job, even in AAA land.

I generally disagree with this, it seems like "ambient elevator music" is the "movie poster guy looking back over his shoulder" of games
 

FeelTheRads

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He's saying that calling developers lazy isn't valid

I don't see how it's not. If the game looks lazy then it's lazy. If you really worked hard on a product that stinks of laziness then you simply suck.
Or maybe you're a slow worker, which is no crime, but well, maybe wait before you actually do something worth of notice before screaming that you're misunderstood genius.
 

Roguey

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All implementations of RTwP are trash...Theoretically, i can envision myself liking RTwP:cool:
These sentences contradict each other. You keep parroting me like a child would. While it pleases me to reduce an (allegedly) adult man to a baby, I've had enough.

Look who's talking. The one who KNOWS how every game should be developed, except the ones made by Sawyer which are just perfection.
I've never made this claim.
Tells us again about how companies run out of money for one reason or another,
That's always been true every time I've said it.
how certain features should be implemented before others
I've never said anything like this.
and all the other retarded, ignorant, uneducated and parroted shit you spew out daily. We never tire of it.
Gross generalizations.
 

Roguey

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Agreed that the lack of variety, when it comes to which slot should be locked out, is pure laziness. Even moreso, since their own made-up lore (wings, horns, strange birthmarks, talons, odd eyes) doesn't match the mechanics.
Balance isn't necessarily the reason why it's only helmets.
Josh said:
BTW, you haven't really lived until you've watched a non-RPG person try to dive into a D&D-based game like NWN2. It's like a steel-toed boot repeatedly kicking them in the nuts and calling them an idiot. YOU WANNA PLAY THIS GAME, DUMMY? HA HA HA YEAH RIGHT.
Asking someone to make a decision to give up equippable item x or equippable item y forever in character creation, when they haven't even played it and have no idea what any of those items will be like? Not a good idea. I know grognards love making their uninformed decisions, but they're awful.

And it matches the lore just fine. They're not obligated to allow you to play as any permutation of godlike that exists. This isn't a godlike-playing-game.
 

Witiko

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Ballance isn't necessarily the reason why it's only helmets.
Well, what do you suppose is the reason, then?

Asking someone to make a decision to give up equippable item x or equippable item y forever in character creation, when they haven't even played it and have no idea what any of those items will be like? Not a good idea. I know grognards love making their uninformed decisions, but they're awful.
You roll a character, you play the game, you have incentive to replay the game and get to play the content you've missed out on during the first playthrough. The game should not overly punish you for it, because it's a given that during your first playthrough your decisions during character creation are bound to have been at least partly uninformed and we are not playing a roguelike, but at the same time it should make difference enough to generate replay value.
 
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Lhynn

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This "everything is balanced" makes this stupid game sound so dry and boring. Hope that isnt the case.
 

Infinitron

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Ohmes
Similar in many ways to the Bosmer, although generally of lesser stature. In order to avoid being mistaken as one of the Bosmer many Ohmes tattoo their faces to resemble a feline-aspect. The Ohmes is the most common form seen outside of the province of Elsweyr, taking advantage of other races' preference to their appearance to serve in positions of ambassadorship and trade. It is possible that the Ohmes are the breed seen across Tamriel at the end of the fourth century of the Third Era.

[edit]Ohmes-raht
Similar to the race of men, save for their tails and short, light-colored fur, the Ohmes-raht may easily be mistaken as men at a distance. Unlike the many other species of Khajiit who walk like cats upon the balls of their feet, the Ohmes-raht walk upon their heels. The Ohmes-raht are most likely the breed found in Hammerfell and High Rock in the early fifth century of the Third Era.

[edit]Suthay
Similar to the Suthay-raht in all respects, save that they are of lesser stature.

[edit]Suthay-raht
Similar in height and build to the race of man, the Suthay-raht are one of the most common breeds of Khajiit. Their coloring ranges from dark brown and orange, to light yellow, both with and without stripes and spots. Suthay-raht are often referred to as "Ja'Khajiit" (meaning "kitten") by those of other races; this appellation often strikes the Khajiit as odd, said title being one of their names for Mehrunes Dagon. The Khajiit encountered in Vvardenfell, are Suthay-raht, as well as the Khajiit found on Stros M'Kai near the end of the Second Era.

[edit]Cathay
A Khajiiti form determined by Lunar Lattice (ja'Kha'jay): when moon Masser is waxing and Secunda is full. Similar to the Suthay-raht in appearance and bi-pedalism, however they possess greater stature and strength.

[edit]Cathay-raht
A Khajiiti form determined by Lunar Lattice (ja'Kha'jay): when moons Masser and Secunda are waxing. Larger and stronger than the Cathay, the Cathay-raht are often described by non-Khajiit races as "jaguar-men". Whether this implies that the Cathay-raht are a spotted breed or not is unknown.

[edit]Tojay
Little is known of the Tojay, except that they live in the southern marshes and jungle regions of Elsweyr, as well as the Tenmar forest.

[edit]Tojay-raht
Nothing is known of the Tojay-raht, save it's probably a larger version of the Tojay.

[edit]Alfiq
A quadrupedal form of Khajiit, the Alfiq is, in many respects, similar to a common housecat. Although diminutive in form, the Alfiq retain the keen intelligence of the Khajiiti, having the ability to understand the spoken word of others, although unable to respond. It is possible that they can cast spells; see Mixed Unit Tactics for more on this subject.

[edit]Alfiq-raht
Nothing is known of the Alfiq-raht, save it's probably larger than the Alfiq.

[edit]Dagi
A less-common form of Khajiit, Dagi live in the trees of the Tenmar forrest. Due to their smaller size and light weight, they are able to dwell in the higher branches which even the Bosmer cannot reach. The Dagi have a natural affinity for magic, and are known spellcasters, a characteristic often taken advantage of in Khajiiti battle-tactics.

[edit]Dagi-raht
Similar in all respects to the Dagi, while somewhat larger, however not overly so as they are able to dwell in higher tree branches, like the Dagi. It can be assumed that, like their smaller cousins, they are naturally skilled in the use of magic.

[edit]Pahmar
The Pahmar is similar in appearance and size to a tiger.

[edit]Pahmar-raht
The Pahmar-raht is similar to the Pahmar in appearance, although larger and possessed of a fiercer disposition.

[edit]Senche
The Senche is commonly employed by the other Khajiit breeds as a steed, assumedly by will. Roughly the same height as the average Altmer, with an average weight comparable to that of twenty Altmer.

[edit]Senche-raht
Larger and slower than the Senche, the Senche-raht are also possessed of a shorter body-span and straighter legs. The average Senche-raht stands as tall as two Altmer and can weigh as much or more than fifty. Like the Senche, Senche-raht are also employed as steeds, notably in battle, whence they earned the title "battlecats" from Imperial troopers.

[edit]Mane
A Mane can be born only under a rare alignment of Masser and Secunda when, according to legend, a third moon appears in the sky. In olden times, the Khajiit would shave off their own manes in deference to the Mane, braiding them into locks that he would incorporate into his own, gigantic mane. Over time, as the population grew, this ritual became impractical. Thus, while all Khajiit continue to remove their manes in deferential respect, they do so largely as a symbolic sacrifice, disposing of the shorn locks. The current Mane, however, continues to wear the braids of his own tribe, as well as those of his Warrior Guard, which encompasses hundreds of Khajiit. In fact, so weighted down by the hair of his kinsmen is he that the Mane cannot move without aid, and travels about the countryside by means of a Cathay-raht supported palanquin.
 

NotAGolfer

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Guise, stop derailing this thread already!
I want to hear what games without Josh's involvement Roguey enjoyed. And I want to hear it nao!
That would Be Derail. better open a new topic in General RPG Discussion.
Also its semantics with Roguey. He never claimed he liked a non-Josh game. He claimed that He could envisioned himself lieking it.
Every thread with Roguey in it revolves around Roguey arguing with a bunch of masochists in the end, hence it becomes a thread about Roguey, so no, this wouldn't be derailing. :smug:
 

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Guise, stop derailing this thread already!
I want to hear what games without Josh's involvement Roguey enjoyed. And I want to hear it nao!
That would Be Derail. better open a new topic in General RPG Discussion.
Also its semantics with Roguey. He never claimed he liked a non-Josh game. He claimed that He could envisioned himself lieking it.
Roguey has made it clear that she considers all RPGs made thus far to be bad.

That is not the same as not liking them.
 

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