Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Sensuki]

Also, whats interesting about the comments is that they haven't actually addressed the inherent weakness of phase based on a combat grid, they simply offer workarounds.

That's an interesting statement, because this is inherently what Josh has done for a number of rules systems. When he often talks about house rules for P&P, changes to stuff in Fallout systems, IE systems or stuff for PE a lot of it is simply a "fix" or a "workaround" for a particular system.

When talking about PE system specifically, most of the systems are actually pretty similar to the IE games. The recent change to the action speed system makes Pillars of Eternity almost exactly the same as what the IE games did, which is good because combat should have an IE feel to it.

I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing. But I think it would be interesting to see what he did if given complete creative freedom.

 

[Ninjerk]

Also, whats interesting about the comments is that they haven't actually addressed the inherent weakness of phase based on a combat grid, they simply offer workarounds.

That's an interesting statement, because this is inherently what Josh has done for a number of rules systems. When he often talks about house rules for P&P, changes to stuff in Fallout systems, IE systems or stuff for PE a lot of it is simply a "fix" or a "workaround" for a particular system.

When talking about PE system specifically, most of the systems are actually pretty similar to the IE games. The recent change to the action speed system makes Pillars of Eternity almost exactly the same as what the IE games did, which is good because combat should have an IE feel to it.

I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing. But I think it would be interesting to see what he did if given complete creative freedom.

When does he ever speak outside of the context of IE and D&D?

 

[Somberlain]

Not saying that what he's said on this is bad, but your hero worship is a bit lulzy. Anyone who thinks about a problem for a while should be able to come up with ideas or at the very least workarounds. Well done Josh for being able to the job he does I guess?

If anyone could do it, world would be filled with awesome RPG rulesets.

 

[Sensuki]

Also, whats interesting about the comments is that they haven't actually addressed the inherent weakness of phase based on a combat grid, they simply offer workarounds.

That's an interesting statement, because this is inherently what Josh has done for a number of rules systems. When he often talks about house rules for P&P, changes to stuff in Fallout systems, IE systems or stuff for PE a lot of it is simply a "fix" or a "workaround" for a particular system.

When talking about PE system specifically, most of the systems are actually pretty similar to the IE games. The recent change to the action speed system makes Pillars of Eternity almost exactly the same as what the IE games did, which is good because combat should have an IE feel to it.

I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing. But I think it would be interesting to see what he did if given complete creative freedom.

When does he ever speak outside of the context of IE and D&D?

I've seen him talk about P&P (lots of Ars Magicka) and Fallout New Vegas a fair bit, but to be honest I really only pay attention to the PE related stuff. You'd have to ask Roguey that

 

[Ninjerk]

Also, whats interesting about the comments is that they haven't actually addressed the inherent weakness of phase based on a combat grid, they simply offer workarounds.

That's an interesting statement, because this is inherently what Josh has done for a number of rules systems. When he often talks about house rules for P&P, changes to stuff in Fallout systems, IE systems or stuff for PE a lot of it is simply a "fix" or a "workaround" for a particular system.

When talking about PE system specifically, most of the systems are actually pretty similar to the IE games. The recent change to the action speed system makes Pillars of Eternity almost exactly the same as what the IE games did, which is good because combat should have an IE feel to it.

I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing. But I think it would be interesting to see what he did if given complete creative freedom.

When does he ever speak outside of the context of IE and D&D?

I've seen him talk about P&P (lots of Ars Magicka) and Fallout New Vegas a fair bit, but to be honest I really only pay attention to the PE related stuff. You'd have to ask Roguey that

I ignored him to see what a Roguey-free world looks like. I keep forgetting he exists now.

 

[Sensuki]

It's actually great because the more people that do that, the less off-topic arguments in this thread (and others) there will be.

 

[Ninjerk]

It's actually great because the more people that do that, the less off-topic arguments in this thread (and others) there will be.

It's really just a time-saver since I don't read the arguments for the most part.

 

[Excidium]

How do you even keep interest in this game without roguey

 

[Ninjerk]

How do you even keep interest in this game without roguey

Sensuki is the one with all the updates.

 

[Roguey]

What it boils down to is that publishers are afraid that players are too stupid to use or enjoy turn based combat. Josh wasn't being some avantgarde thought leader when he made PoE rtwp; he was hoping that this decision would attract the greatest number of players for his game. I don't blame him for this, its actually sound commercial logic. But I find it objectionable when devotees like you try to paint this as being done on artistic grounds when its anything but.

PoE is rtwp because the Infinity Engine games were. The IE games were rtwp because Bioware had a RTS engine ready to go. That's all there is to it; no "people are too dumb" nonsense.

 

[Metro]

Sawyer is a joke, bro.

 

[Athelas]

Ah yes, the 'actiony' and 'visceral' gameplay of RTwP RPG's that make them so much more popular than their turn-based counterparts:

http://killscreendaily.com/articles/articles/feature/why-i-quit-playing-baldurs-gate-2/

I felt one thing within the ten hours that I played of Baldur's Gate 2: Enhanced Edition: frustration. Bitter, difficult, and unrelenting frustration. I'm a huge fan of getting nostalgic, especially when it comes to videogames. Sixty hours of turn-based combat in Fire Emblem? No problem. But to really enjoy a game, you need more than passive, inanimate respect for structure and mechanics. It requires a certain nameless excitement. Sometimes, we call it “fun.” But as I sat playing Baldur's Gate 2 on a borrowed PC from my university's library, I couldn’t grasp any sort of joy, ecstasy, or insight. Everything felt … outdated. Unprovocative.

 

[J_C]

Ah yes, the 'actiony' gameplay of RTwP RPG's that supposedly make them so much more popular than their turn-based counterparts:

http://killscreendaily.com/articles/articles/feature/why-i-quit-playing-baldurs-gate-2/

I felt one thing within the ten hours that I played of Baldur's Gate 2: Enhanced Edition: frustration. Bitter, difficult, and unrelenting frustration. I'm a huge fan of getting nostalgic, especially when it comes to videogames. Sixty hours of turn-based combat inFire Emblem? No problem. But to really enjoy a game, you need more than passive, inanimate respect for structure and mechanics. It requires a certain nameless excitement. Sometimes, we call it “fun.” But as I sat playing Baldur's Gate 2 on a borrowed PC from my university's library, I couldn’t grasp any sort of joy, ecstasy, or insight. Everything felt … outdated. Unprovocative.

Yeah, that moron who's brain is not capable to manage BG2's combat is a great example.


Fake edit: wow, what a pretentious article.

 

[agris]

I get your point Athelas, but that's a horrible fucking review from a wannabe-intellectual. He doesn't even have a computer to play games on, and has to borrow one?

His point of view is worthless.

 

[Athelas]

How so? His opinion of turn-based vs RTwP is the same as that of most Codexers.

Also:

Alexander Saeedy is a Yale undergraduate

 

[Rake]

How so? His opinion of turn-based vs RTwP is the same as that of most Codexers.

You answered your own question here.

 

[Excidium]

What it boils down to is that publishers are afraid that players are too stupid to use or enjoy turn based combat. Josh wasn't being some avantgarde thought leader when he made PoE rtwp; he was hoping that this decision would attract the greatest number of players for his game. I don't blame him for this, its actually sound commercial logic. But I find it objectionable when devotees like you try to paint this as being done on artistic grounds when its anything but.

PoE is rtwp because the Infinity Engine games were. The IE games were rtwp because Bioware had a RTS engine ready to go. That's all there is to it; no "people are too dumb" nonsense.

muh D&D

muh Infinity Engine

There's some convenience in being creativily bankrupt, everything bad can be justified as staying true to your mediocre inspirations

 

[AN4RCHID]

https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/487749288555216897

Subtle, I like it

 

[Curious_Tongue]

Is the club in a low place? One should follow a declining path to find it.

 

[Xu Fugui]

That sounds lovely and pretty non-intrusive.

Also, Josh senpai tweeted to us, yay!

 

[J_C]

How so? His opinion of turn-based vs RTwP is the same as that of most Codexers.

Also:

Alexander Saeedy is a Yale undergraduate

No, actually he only says that he had no problem playing 60 hours Fire Emblem in turn based, but BG2 is bad, because he doesn't connect, isn't feeling the enthusiasm, it is point and click (really, his problem is that it is point and click!!!!), it is old, it doesn't hold up, so it didn't deserve all the fame.

I didn't understand half of his pretentious rumbling.

 

[Merlkir]

Weeaboo + pretentious twat.
His other articles contain gems like "THE JRPG MAY BE EXACTLY WHAT GAMING NEEDS".

 

[Excidium]

At least he doesn't like BG2EE

 

[Suicidal]

I've never played any Fire Emblems but I'm under the impression that they are like babby's first turn based RPGs/strategy games where your only options are move and attack (and maybe use item), so they are probably easy to get in to even for someone who hates games like that.

 

[Murk]

The above is correct; but they do have certain things going for them like all characters perma-die and are quite fun (at least the handheld ones are).