Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Roguey]

One more month until the moment of truth.

The longest month.

 

[J_C]

Well.. The narrative and writing should be better. Those - espicially story wuise - is NOT D:OS's strong suit. D:OS is overrated. Good, fun game but not 'best ever'. Anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid.

Some of the writing in Divinity Original sin was atrocious as you imply. I would go a step further and say the gameplay wasn't all that great either. In fact there was very little about the game I enjoyed.

Can someone please explain why everyone has a hard on for it?

Joined:
Feb 25, 2014

 

[Athelas]

Mainstream reviewers don't care about (real) C&C and they've consistently rated Obsidian's writing/storytelling as weaker than Bioware's and Bethesda's offerings in the past. So it could still review badly even on that front.

 

[Somberlain]

Mainstream reviewers don't care about (real) C&C and they've consistently rated Obsidian's writing/storytelling as weaker than Bioware's and Bethesda's offerings in the past. So it could still review badly even on that front.

Who cares about Dorito reviews?

 

[Athelas]

Mainstream reviewers don't care about (real) C&C and they've consistently rated Obsidian's writing/storytelling as weaker than Bioware's and Bethesda's offerings in the past. So it could still review badly even on that front.

Who cares about Dorito reviews?

Well, the discussion was about how the game would review. As for who cares, I would say Obsidian, especially if they plan to do a future Kickstarter.

 

[Hormalakh]

from the reviews that we saw during e3, i expect it'll have favorable enough reviews to sell enough copies so that they won't need a kickstarter for the next installment.

if the game is actually good enough that players only praise it (and not journos), then I expect it'll be a smash hit (or a cult favorite) and still make enough money for that to still be the case.

it all boils down to how fun of a game it is. nobody cares what the doritos crowd says about it.

 

[Jedi Exile]

Just curious, do you guys think Obsidian or Josh has had an "oh shit" moment yet where they wonder if their game will live up to the very high bar set by Original Sin? It will be interesting if reviews come in and say, "It's pretty good, but not as good as D:OS..."

Well, they can always say that PoE has better writing and story.

 

[Perkel]

from the reviews that we saw during e3, i expect it'll have favorable enough reviews to sell enough copies so that they won't need a kickstarter for the next installment.

if the game is actually good enough that players only praise it (and not journos), then I expect it'll be a smash hit (or a cult favorite) and still make enough money for that to still be the case.

it all boils down to how fun of a game it is. nobody cares what the doritos crowd says about it.

Heh ofcourse they will do kickstarter. Who don't want free money ?

 

[Jagged Appliance]

Heh ofcourse they will do kickstarter. Who don't want free money ?

And free advertising.

 

[Spockrock]

Well.. The narrative and writing should be better. Those - espicially story wuise - is NOT D:OS's strong suit. D:OS is overrated. Good, fun game but not 'best ever'. Anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid.

you know something's terribly wrong when Volo is the only voice of reason

 

[Grunker]

he's basically saying what everyone else has been saying for 70 pages of the dos thread

 

[Excidium]

One more month until the moment of truth.

The longest month.

Predicting 'good for what it is' and 'play for the story'

ds

 

[Perkel]

Honestly i think crowdfunding is probably the best way to increase creativity. Sure PoE has clishes but they rode on Kickstarter wave and they didn't know if that wave will soon fade. So known stuff + their RPG = success. And this is what they did.

My point if that with proper crowdfunding from A to Z developers don't need to look even at steam or any retailer. This means they can freely tackle ANY kind of taboo not risking ban on their game in form of AO rating.

If someone still don't get it then lets use example. Books.

Did someone here read "Blindness" by José Saramago ? If no then here is short summary:

Blindness is the story of an unexplained mass epidemic ofblindness afflicting nearly everyone in an unnamed city, and the social breakdown that swiftly follows. The novel follows the misfortunes of a handful of characters who are among the first to be stricken and centers on "the doctor's wife," her husband, several of his patients, and assorted others, thrown together by chance. This group bands together in a family-like unit to survive by their wits and by the unexplained good fortune that the doctor’s wife has escaped the blindness. The sudden onset and unexplained origin and nature of the blindness cause widespread panic, and the social order rapidly unravels as the government attempts to contain the apparent contagion and keep order via increasingly repressive and inept measures.

The first part of the novel follows the experiences of the central characters in the filthy, overcrowded asylum where they and other blind people have been quarantined. Hygiene, living conditions, and morale degrade horrifically in a very short period, mirroring the society outside.

Anxiety over the availability of food, caused by delivery irregularities, acts to undermine solidarity; and lack of organization prevents the internees from fairly distributing food or chores. Soldiers assigned to guard the asylum and look after the well-being of the internees become increasingly antipathetic as one soldier after another becomes infected. The military refuse to allow in basic medicines, so that a simple infection becomes deadly. Fearing a break out, soldiers shoot down a crowd of internees waiting upon food delivery.

Conditions degenerate further, as an armed clique gains control over food deliveries, subjugating their fellow internees and exposing them to rape and deprivation. Faced with starvation, internees do battle and burn down the asylum, only to find that the army has abandoned the asylum, after which the protagonists join the throngs of nearly helpless blind people outside who wander the devastated city and fight one another to survive.

It's fantastic book about disease which make people only blind. No stupid zombies, no stupid characters. Everything realistically fallows plot. There is no nuclear bombing. Just people are becoming permanently blind. And as story fallows every single one person is becoming animal realistically which includes things like walking in shit, sleeping on shit, rape, murder, torture, law of stronger. That book is excellent because it realistically depicts what if scenario without being stupid.

If developers would be motivated by profit they wouldn't be able to do game like that because that game would get 100% AO rating banning it from Steam and almost all retailers.

I am not saying that all games should now future rape and stuff but they simply shouldn't fallow rating format if developers truly want to tell some story.

 

[Hormalakh]

from the reviews that we saw during e3, i expect it'll have favorable enough reviews to sell enough copies so that they won't need a kickstarter for the next installment.

if the game is actually good enough that players only praise it (and not journos), then I expect it'll be a smash hit (or a cult favorite) and still make enough money for that to still be the case.

it all boils down to how fun of a game it is. nobody cares what the doritos crowd says about it.

Heh ofcourse they will do kickstarter. Who don't want free money ?

It's not "Free money." They also have something to lose by pitching these games like this. For one, they lose on the sales to those 70k players by giving them the game at a lower price (70k X $10 extra per game = $700,000). Secondly, they have to deal with the shit/entitlement that many of these backers seem to have. I'm a backer and I can't handle some of the stuff I read on these sites. That doesn't mean that they can't keep their fans in the know, it just takes away that pressure to pander to a group or to keep everyone happy (romances is an example).

Why is it that the bigger companies aren't going for Kickstarters? Like Blizzard et al. Yes, one might argue that they're financially successful and so it looks poor on them to do so (another reason that OEI can't ride that wave forever), but the other reason is that it just doesn't make sense financially.

I can see them doing contests or some of the higher priced stuff from their own website to help with future games, but if I were a company raking in the dough and had enough money to start funding my own games, I wouldn't kickstart them.

As for advertising, D: OS has shown that it doesn't matter. Word of mouth is the new (it's not really new, but whatever) advertising in gaming. That and steam. Obsidian already has enough clout that when it announces a game, the dorito's crowd is already there to hear it and the fans are there to share it.

 

[tuluse]

As for advertising, D: OS has shown that it doesn't matter. Word of mouth is the new (it's not really new, but whatever) advertising in gaming. That and steam. Obsidian already has enough clout that when it announces a game, the dorito's crowd is already there to hear it and the fans are there to share it.

That's the exact kind of advertising kickstarter generates.

 

[Hormalakh]

I didn't much care about D: OS ( and i bet you most people didn't) when it was on kickstarter. i started paying attention (and thinking about buying the game) when everyone and their mother was heaping praises on it. kickstarter's WOM was nothing compared to the post-published WOM.

kickstarter is good advertising when you break a record (like PoE did or torment did, etc) or do something new that nobody's done before.

I guess I'll give it credit for helping backers mingle with other projects and sort of find new users (if you back one game, you'll likely back another, etc).

So some advertising. But I don't think it's a significant amount.

 

[Perkel]

It's not "Free money." They also have something to lose by pitching these games like this. For one, they lose on the sales to those 70k players by giving them the game at a lower price (70k X $10 extra per game = $700,000). Secondly, they have to deal with the shit/entitlement that many of these backers seem to have. I'm a backer and I can't handle some of the stuff I read on these sites. That doesn't mean that they can't keep their fans in the know, it just takes away that pressure to pander to a group or to keep everyone happy (romances is an example).

Why is it that the bigger companies aren't going for Kickstarters? Like Blizzard et al. Yes, one might argue that they're financially successful and so it looks poor on them to do so (another reason that OEI can't ride that wave forever), but the other reason is that it just doesn't make sense financially.

I can see them doing contests or some of the higher priced stuff from their own website to help with future games, but if I were a company raking in the dough and had enough money to start funding my own games, I wouldn't kickstart them.

As for advertising, D: OS has shown that it doesn't matter. Word of mouth is the new advertising in gaming. That and steam. Obsidian already has enough clout that when it announces a game, the dorito's crowd is already there to hear it and the fans are there to share it.

So much wrong.

Big publishers aren't going for crowdfunding because it is pocket money. They are not interested in earning 10mln they are interested in earning 500mln or 1bil or 2bil. Last tomb rider by SquareEnix was supposed to sell 5mln to be considered success. Sales below that was considered failure.

Secondly big crowdfunding exist on direct dev-consumer relation. Any publisher involvement means devs don't need money and they want to scam your out of your money. Almost every kickstarter that mentioned creating something to show to publisher failed. Every kickstarter that involved publisher failed.

3rd. IT IS FREE MONEY. Here is brakedown how games are funded:

- your own money. Which means if your game will fail you will go bust.
- loans. Which means like above but worse (Larian used loans to start being independent)
- publishers/investors money which results in your work not being yours (or most of royalties going to inv/pub)

And here is crowdfunding:
- not your money, no loans, and you own IP. And even if you sell 0 or you failed to deliver hype you still lost nothing.

So no, crowdfunding is free money. That 700k you mentioned lost sales first need to be counted with development cost you forgot about at you will see that if you count that it will be in the end 0.

So we have two 0s. One with risk and one without any risk. So which 0 do you think is better ? Free 0 or risky 0 ?

That is completely beside something you completely don't count. FREE MARKETING.
LEGION of people who will talk, write and tweet about your game and if your game is good then you can be sure that this Legion will make your sales skyrocket upon release (like in Larian case) and all that without spending even 1$ on marketing.

So crowdfunding money is not only free but also can make your game from 0 to hero in therms of awareness.

 

[tuluse]

I didn't much care about D: OS ( and i bet you most people didn't) when it was on kickstarter. i started paying attention (and thinking about buying the game) when everyone and their mother was heaping praises on it. kickstarter's WOM was nothing compared to the post-published WOM.

kickstarter is good advertising when you break a record (like PoE did or torment did, etc) or do something new that nobody's done before.

I guess I'll give it credit for helping backers mingle with other projects and sort of find new users (if you back one game, you'll likely back another, etc).

So some advertising. But I don't think it's a significant amount.

Why do you think hundreds of codexers were playing it on release day?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/campaigns.php?id=3

 

[Volourn]

"As for advertising, D: OS has shown that it doesn't matter. Word of mouth is the new (it's not really new, but whatever) advertising in gaming."

DOS was hyped. It also has a built in audience cosndieiorng it's the millionth game in the series. Larien is not some rinky dinky low end developer. Just look at the credits. FFS

\Unless someone's definition of 'small' is 'smaller than Blizzard'. LMFAO

 

[Grotesque]

If Obsidian will come out with a Project Eternity as buggy as Divinity: Original Sin, it will be suicide for them.
But Larian strolls in the parks with everybody cheering for them from the sides for coming out with a great game when its buggy as hell at release and still.
So fuck them and fuck the double standards.
And fuck them twice if I reach lvl 20 and thats the level cap.

 

[Athelas]

If Obsidian will come out with a Project Eternity as buggy as Divinity: Original Sin, it will be suicide for them.
But Larian strolls in the parks with everybody cheering for them from the sides for coming out with a great game when its buggy as hell at release and still.
So fuck them and fuck the double standards.
And fuck them twice if I reach lvl 20 and thats the level cap.

D:OS isn't buggy? In fact, it's remarkably polished for how freeform its mechanics and systems are. Of course, Obsidian is going to be subject to a lot more scrutiny.

The level cap for this game is 12, by the way.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Div: OS is probably the least buggy game I have played for a long time. Also Obsidian's last 2 games are (Dungeon Siege 3, South Park) mostly bug free with good optimisation.

And level 20 is not the cap ,dunno if there is any TBH( for Div: OS)

 

[Roguey]

And fuck them twice if I reach lvl 20 and thats the level cap.

The level cap is 12 but considering that there's no systematic way of gathering XP you would have to do just about everything to reach it and you shouldn't ever get enough xp to reach 13 (until the expansion).

 

[Infinitron]

I think he was talking about the level cap in DivOS.

 

[Roguey]

And level 20 is not the cap ,dunno if there is any TBH( for Div: OS)

Somewhat contrary to what they said pre-release, D:OS doesn't actually "cap" your level but there's no content that goes beyond 20.