Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Grunker]

There are DPS/tanking/healing roles in Pillars of Eternity?

Oh, it's Lhynn. Basically a less aggressive FtR when it comes to making unsubstantiated claims about PoE. Let the Sawyer-butthurt flow.

He's referring to DotA.

No, he wasn't. If you remain in doubt, read his replies after your quote.

 

[Lhynn]

Arent fighters tanks, rogues single target dps/burst, barbarians AoE dps, mages CC, etc?

Burst isn't even the same as dps.

Burst is short term dps increase. Its like saying green apples arent the same as apples.

So all short terms increases in overall damage imply a scenario in which steady damage per second matters?

No, nor did i imply it was so, i refered to the dual role of dps and burst increase, but telling they arent the same isnt really valid, burst is a more specific kind of dps, depending on the encounter there could not be a difference between them.

Grunker i am largely ignorant of Dota, i know it revolves around kiting and spiking and how good you are at judging when to do one or the other on a micro level + coordinating with other 4 dudes on a macro level.

 

[Delterius]

No, nor did i imply it was so, i refered to the dual role of dps and burst increase, but telling they arent the same isnt really valid, burst is a more specific kind of dps, depending on the encounter there could not be a difference between them.

So a mage who memorizes magic missile is DPS?

 

[Lhynn]

No, nor did i imply it was so, i refered to the dual role of dps and burst increase, but telling they arent the same isnt really valid, burst is a more specific kind of dps, depending on the encounter there could not be a difference between them.

So a mage who memorizes magic missile is DPS?

Thats not burst, thats spike.

 

[Delterius]

No, nor did i imply it was so, i refered to the dual role of dps and burst increase, but telling they arent the same isnt really valid, burst is a more specific kind of dps, depending on the encounter there could not be a difference between them.

So a mage who memorizes magic missile is DPS?

Thats not burst, thats spike.

Are you sure? I mean, this is all very complex.

 

[Lhynn]

No, nor did i imply it was so, i refered to the dual role of dps and burst increase, but telling they arent the same isnt really valid, burst is a more specific kind of dps, depending on the encounter there could not be a difference between them.

So a mage who memorizes magic missile is DPS?

Thats not burst, thats spike.

Are you sure? I mean, this is all very complex.

I feel im being trolled, but yeah, spike is a single heavy strike, burst is a sudden but short lived increase in dps.

 

[Delterius]

No, nor did i imply it was so, i refered to the dual role of dps and burst increase, but telling they arent the same isnt really valid, burst is a more specific kind of dps, depending on the encounter there could not be a difference between them.

So a mage who memorizes magic missile is DPS?

Thats not burst, thats spike.

Are you sure? I mean, this is all very complex.

I feel im being trolled, but yeah, spike is a single heavy strike, burst is a sudden but short lived increase in dps.

How much more short lived must bursts be in order to then be considered spikes? In order to complain, we need to define things thoroughly. Could it be that when you do 2 instead of 1 heavy strikes you reached popamole territory? Maybe a mage who memorizes 2 magic missiles? A mage who uses filthy metamagic items like Edwin?

 

[Lhynn]

How much more short lived must bursts be in order to not be considered spikes? In order to complain, we need to define things thoroughly.

While in a lot of places they use the terms interchangeably that is wrong. spikes makes reference to a spike in a line chart, it is a single high point, burst on the other hand makes reference to several highly damaging strikes, like the burst of a automatic or semi automatic firearm it is short lived and (almost always) sacrifices something to achieve a higher than average result, it can be ammo, endurance, the special ability itself, etc in a line graph it would be represented by a line that is higher than the others, not a spike.

In games this has several repercusions, you generally cant protect yourself against a spike, but you have time to react to a burst. Also spikes can be good to counter high healing or regeneration abilities by outright killing the target with one or several consecutive spikes. Bursts on the other hand usually reward you with better overall damage than spikes.

 

[Delterius]

So a single magic missile out of a long line of slingshots is a spike while 5 is a burst?

 

[Lhynn]

So a single magic missile out of a long line of slingshots is a spike while 5 is a burst?

they go out of your hand and hit your enemy at exactly the same time, it would be a spike. burst abilities often take the form of buffs.

 

[Delterius]

So a single magic missile out of a long line of slingshots is a spike while 5 is a burst?

they go out of your hand and hit your enemy at exactly the same time, it would be a spike. burst abilities often take the form of buffs.

I agree. Magic Missiles even kill most enemies outright.

 

[Lhynn]

So a single magic missile out of a long line of slingshots is a spike while 5 is a burst?

they go out of your hand and hit your enemy at exactly the same time, it would be a spike. burst abilities often take the form of buffs.

I agree. Magic Missiles even kill most enemies outright.

it really does, considering most life forms in the world have less than a single health point and most humanoids on the world have less than 8.

If you are refering to the very small % of creatures murdering hobos face, then yes, it is not very effective, but we are talking about a level 1 spell that when maxed can kill a level 1 average caster 5 times over.

Its all about perspective doe.

 

[Delterius]

So a single magic missile out of a long line of slingshots is a spike while 5 is a burst?

they go out of your hand and hit your enemy at exactly the same time, it would be a spike. burst abilities often take the form of buffs.

I agree. Magic Missiles even kill most enemies outright.

it really does, considering most life forms in the world have less than a single health point and most humanoids on the world have less than 8.

Then again, common flu sounds like ebola if you focus on aids ridden cancerous octogenarians who live in North Korea.

 

[Lhynn]

So a single magic missile out of a long line of slingshots is a spike while 5 is a burst?

they go out of your hand and hit your enemy at exactly the same time, it would be a spike. burst abilities often take the form of buffs.

I agree. Magic Missiles even kill most enemies outright.

it really does, considering most life forms in the world have less than a single health point and most humanoids on the world have less than 8.

Then again, common flu sounds like ebola if you focus on aids ridden cancerous octogenarians who live in North Korea.

you lost me.

 

[Delterius]

Then again, common flu sounds like ebola if you focus on aids ridden cancerous octogenarians who live in North Korea.

you lost me.

I told you this was a very complex issue.

 

[Abu Antar]

Found this http://blog.twitch.tv/2014/08/live-booth-broadcast-schedule-for-gamescom-2014/
The times for Pillars of Eternity are these:

Booth Broadcast Schedule (All times are PDT)

August 13 – Wednesday
3:20 AM Paradox Interactive – Pillars of Eternity

August 14 – Thursday
3:00 AM Paradox Interactive – Pillars of Eternity

 

[Grunker]

It's funny how sperging about whether or not X thing (e.g. a game) belongs to Y category (e.g. MMOs) to prove that X is shit always ends up being about semantics (e.g. the conversation between Delterius and Lhynn).

If PoE makes you so angry, Lhynn, then why not argue that opinion based on what you know about the game, instead of trying to put a semantic label on it?

 

[Delterius]

Naturally, we must strive to elevate our buzzwords beyond the level of games journalists and shitposters. Therefore, we must engage in a fierce semantic debate in spite of all futility in its discussion, for therein lies a delicious pleasure of a useless occupation: the forum goer class.

 

[Grunker]

Naturally, we must strive to elevate our buzzwords beyond the level of games journalists and shitposters. Therefore, we must engage in a fierce semantic debate in spite of all futility in its discussion, for therein lies a delicious pleasure of a useless occupation: the forum goer class.

I don't understand all this lofty talk. All I know is that it is important that we agree on what exactly constitutes a "bullshit MMO" so that we can label our most hated upcoming games as such.

 

[Lhynn]

It's funny how sperging about whether or not X thing (e.g. a game) belongs to Y category (e.g. MMOs) to prove that X is shit always ends up being about semantics (e.g. the conversation between Delterius and Lhynn).

If PoE makes you so angry, Lhynn, then why not argue that opinion based on what you know about the game, instead of trying to put a semantic label on it?

Not all mmos are shit. but standard mmo mechanics are, only good mmos are the ones that stay the fuck away from those.

PoE doesnt make me angry, talk about balance and how it unfluences game development does.

Delt, as i said, they are very different things that can have a different impact on the game, it is not pointless because i agree correctly defining rpg mechanics is a step in the right direction when it comes to discussing it. What i dont understand is why you are trying so hard when what i said is perfectly clear. I know you are trying to make a point, its just not working.

Grunker
Bullshit mmo is not a thing but a bunch of features. Instanced content content being one (not always, but the mayority of it), monsters levels being another (the idea of the monsters having an asigned level and all the mechanics that come with that), linear character progression, holy trinity, players being meaningless to the world (having no impact in it), questing (not all quest, some are enjoyable, mostly talking about fedex and kill 10 wolves, those need to go), grind, character progression being too vertical, items with level requeriment, and a lot of others i can tthink right now.

 

[Delterius]

I know you are trying to make a point, its just not working.

I'm really not. I'm just fooling around with your statements. Earlier you claimed that Dota and MMO balancing were one and the same, which I believe would hang on a bit ignorance about either or both genres. The nature of damage dealing and party roles between a match a DotA and the most cookie cutter encounters of, say, WoW (meaning, Patchwerk-design -- straight dps races with occasional and/or unavoidable party wide damage, forcing everyone into auto-pilot) are all very different.

 

[Grunker]

Bullshit mmo is not a thing but a bunch of features

It is a nonsensical semantic construction and if you want anyone to continue arguing with you, you should point to mechanics in PoE and argue their merit. No one is going to argue with you whether PoE fits into your arbitrary definition of X, Y or Z.

 

[tuluse]

Ironically, PoE doesn't have a "healer" class or role because Josh thinks it's kind of boring.

 

[Grunker]

Ironically, PoE doesn't have a "healer" class or role because Josh thinks it's kind of boring.

Hence my question to Lhynn farther up.

 

[Lhynn]

Ironically, PoE doesn't have a "healer" class or role because Josh thinks it's kind of boring.

Hence my question to Lhynn farther up.

I knew that, was mostly discussing battle roles, as always. I dont think a class is a bunch of theme appropriate skills, a class is a life profession. A paladin isnt a dude that has holy spells and can handle a sword, its a guy that got personally chosen by god as his sword, it is judge, jury and executioner, it is a role model, it is a beacon of hope, etc. You may think they are the same, but thats simply not true.

But you are right, i should reread the mechanics of the game keeping in mind that sawyer wants to make all classes combat focused, and wonder why the fighter never got to learn Dirty fighting, Finishing Blow, or Coordinated Positioning, sounds like handy shit on the battlefield or why Rogues cant learn Weapon Specialization, when it could be extremely handy to learn to handle their small weapons better than most to make up for the fact that they are small fucking weapons and that they are lightly armored, we see the king of rogues sawyer is making in literature all the time, but they are masters of their weapon and its usually a very specific kind of weapon that they use, more like the tool of the trade of a profesional than like a thing with a pointy end.

Or if we go to attributes, might influencing how much damage your fireball does, guess pixie mages wont be a thing anymore. not that i really give a shit about what it does, what bothers me is that its made only because of balance reasons and not because of some vision the dev has of his world.

Im not hating on PoE mechanics in particular anyway, a lot of them are fine, some of them have crossed my mind and i can see them as sensible and appropriate. What im hating on is the philosophy behind it, the idea of balance, the idea of stripping down every single class and making a dota version of it in my ar pee gee.

Delterius i never claimed than dota and mmo balancing are the same, i claimed that they are both shit in a game that is aspiring to be anything resembling old D&D editions.

tl;dr : i dont have a problem with the mechanics, they are p. sound for the most part, i have a problem with what drives all the design choices and how it will impact on the feel of the game.