Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Gondolin]

If combat is taking a while and you have a mage guy who's run out of spells and has to do nothing for ten rounds in a row then that could get pretty boring.

That's what slings are for. Plus, as I remember from BG2, if the fight took so long that your wizard is out of spells, you're either mopping up or getting mopped up. Not exactly boring.

 

[Infinitron]

"As the wizard levels up, spells that previously had a limit can now be cast an unlimited number of times, and the newly acquired spells are the ones with a limit."

Didn't you read the answers?

OK, I thought he was saying that spells that previously had a limit in the IE games were now unlimited in this game (which wouldn't have made sense)

I don't see what that has to do with WoW-style cooldowns, though.

 

[GordonHalfman]

Also, attacks of opportunity and flanking suck the deepest amount of donkeyballs possible in a real-time game. The DEEPEST.

This is good point, this sucked in NWN2. Did they have AoO's in IWD 2? I never played that game, but I think it would have been shit in any of the other IE games. Every time you want to change targets in melee and you mis-click on the ground instead, they take a step and everyone turns around and clobbers them. Or your target suddenly runs off somewhere and your hapless bloke runs after them, past a horde of other fuckers. Maybe the right auto-pause options could fix it.

 

[Infinitron]

No, IWD2 didn't implement AoO (and ironically was soundly bashed for it)

 

[Cynic]

Define "substance".

Something tangible I can understand aside from "this feature sucks because I hate it and it didn't exist in games I liked that were made 15-20+ years ago" or "these games with WoW-style cooldowns suck so this game with a different kind of cooldown will also suck, somehow."

I have laid out my opinions and thoughts in full for all to see, MANY times. Anyone can check my post history and see. I'm not going to waste my time explaining shit to a dumbfuck like Suejak because it's not worth the effort and frankly I began to love the Codex because it was not only devoid of posters like that, but it trolled them so hard that they usually left. It's better for the site that way. There are plenty of sites out there that will hug you and tell you everything is alright because the game will have a switch to turn of friendly fire (ho ho ho will the encounter design take this into account?) and there are romances (you know they are coming). The Codex needs to stay true to what it is because there is a need for a site like this where Devs can actually come and see that there are people who not only care about their games, but care about the tried and true core underlying mechanics so much that they will rage indefinitely about them. Quite frankly the overly optimistic cocksucking in this thread has been a bit sickening.

Finally, I am not opposed to progress. I am ALL for progress. But for fuck's sake, DO IT RIGHT. Dark Souls did it right and it was a massive success. It frustrates me to NO END that modern wRPGs have lost their way completely. This PE stuff really pissed me off. I am a D&D person at heart, I love the fantasy genre, but so far the stuff spoken about with regards to this game ESPECIALLY in terms of combat has been beyond disappointing. Yes, I am a combatfag. This is why ToEE ranks as one of my most favourite RPG experiences in recent history, it is above the IE games for me. I love good stories too, but it's been quite rare that a story in a game has been all that great.

I am very skeptical about any kind of cool down system working in a non declining way. The mechanic has been around for a LONG time and no one so far has been able to do anything interesting with it. Can Obsidian? The company who most people know is responsible for some of the shittest programming releasing bug ridden games constantly? Don't get me wrong I think they are a great company but innovators they most certainly are not.

 

[Roguey]

Someone should ask if there's a five-foot-step. What good are AoOs without a five-foot-step? And FFS give me a charge attack and a ready-against-approach.

 

[Semper]

tim confirmed charge attack in update #16.

Yes, we are looking to include many of these features into our close combat system. Specifically, opportunity attacks and flanking are definitely in, as well as charging.

 

[Infinitron]

Cooldown haters: This thread on the Obsidian forums has pretty much died: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60914-merged-cooldowns-20/

I think it deserves to be revived with this new information. Go forth, and complain about Obsidian's flip-flopping.

Metiman is already doing that on the news update thread. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61...bat-with-tim-mods-and-the-mega-dungeon-grows/
But it's always good to open up a second front.

 

[jewboy]

jewboy: it is possible and just boils down to how and at which length they'll implement cooldowns. obsidian is just throwing around some ideas of what they've in mind and right now nobody knows how spells will be categorized.

Are we talking about 8 hour cooldowns?

 

[Roguey]

I have laid out my opinions and thoughts in full for all to see, MANY times.

Yeah, I've seen what you've had to say and you're not convincing. The Dark Souls approach doesn't solve the problems Sawyer wants and will add tedium if anything.

There are plenty of sites out there that will hug you and tell you everything is alright because the game will have a switch to turn of friendly fire (ho ho ho will the encounter design take this into account?)

Knowing Sawyer, they'll balance everything for Expert mode (meaning friendly-fire) and turning it off will simply make it much easier for people who want that.

The company who most people know is responsible for some of the shittest programming releasing bug ridden games constantly?

Ad hom, scripting and programming errors don't have anything to do with design.

Don't get me wrong I think they are a great company but innovators they most certainly are not.

I'd argue they have made certain innovations, just ones usually not worth caring about.

 

[Spectacle]

WTF how could they ever think opportunity attacks and flanking will be fun in an IE style game? That stuff requires far too much micromanaging the movement of your melee characters.

 

[suejak]

Define "substance".

Something tangible I can understand aside from "this feature sucks because I hate it and it didn't exist in games I liked that were made 15-20+ years ago" or "these games with WoW-style cooldowns suck so this game with a different kind of cooldown will also suck, somehow."

This is why ToEE ranks as one of my most favourite RPG experiences in recent history, it is above the IE games for me. I love good stories too, but it's been quite rare that a story in a game has been all that great.

You mean the game you played for the first time a year ago?

If you love old school gaming experiences, the core principles of which are being positively RAPED by Tim Cain, why don't you hearken back to those? I don't know why you keep bringing up games you're not very familiar with. You haven't even beaten Baldur's Gate or played NWN 1 or 2, so I don't know what you're basing all this fury on. They're modifying the Infinity Engine AD&D systems, which were featured prominently in games you haven't even explored.

 

[Infinitron]

WTF how could they ever think opportunity attacks and flanking will be fun in an IE style game? That stuff requires far too much micromanaging the movement of your melee characters.

Works in Total War while controlling 20 units with no AI simultaneously. Will work in an RPG.

 

[Semper]

and worked within nwn2 without too much micromanaging. i am happy with the given possibilities.

 

[Volrath]

Cynic bro, your exaggerating. Everything Cain says sounds perfectly reasonable.

Edit: Except about Wizards being underpowered. That doesn't make any fucking sense...

 

[x4nti]

The paradox of "taking inspiration" from 4E d&d is that the most common defence of any criticism put forth towards the IE-games was that "it was a consequence of trying to make a turn based system into real time with pause", yet now, PE will be designed after the blueprint of a TB system even-though it was said that it was going to have great rtwp just because it was built from the ground up with that in mind. Of course JSE will never admit to this.

 

[Lord Andre]

Summary for the latest update:

- Combat is going the way of the casual. Bad.
- It will not be as retarded as DAO. Good.
- Sawyer is to blame. Expected.
- Tim Cain is doing all he can to keep Sawyer in check. Expected
- Tim Cain is going to try and fix this shit in expert mod. Good luck.

Fictional quote summary : "Ma' wizzads got noting to do if he ran outta spellzors. Fix pleaze !"

 

[Semper]

ain't 4e critisized because of catering to realtime pc-fags? therefore this leads to the conclusion that inspiration from 4e should fit into a rtwp fighting system.

 

[Infinitron]

- Sawyer is to blame. Expected.
- Tim Cain is doing all he can to keep Sawyer in check. Expected
- Tim Cain is going to try and fix this shit in expert mod. Good luck.

Codex thinks Tim Cain Is A God Who Can Do No Wrong. Expected.

How does that even make any sense when Josh is the one telling people in forums that he doesn't want cooldowns in combat, and then Tim goes ahead and says there will be??

 

[Clockwork Knight]

You see, round these parts, we like old school stuff. Not old school like came out in the late 90s, but,

Now playing: Fallout
On hold: NWN2 OC & Expansions, Tactics Ogre PSP, Vagrant Story , Baldur's Gate (BGT)
Recently finished: ToEE Co8

 

[Falkner]

WTF how could they ever think opportunity attacks and flanking will be fun in an IE style game? That stuff requires far too much micromanaging the movement of your melee characters.

Works in Total War while controlling 20 units with no AI simultaneously. Will work in an RPG.

You mean: works with slow, huge infantry units on a battle field, all of which aren't even remotely as complex as an RPG character. With single characters that might change positions every few seconds, it would probably be very finicky.

 

[Infinitron]

ME SO RONERY: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61144-mad-mad-man/

You mean: works with slow, huge infantry units on a battle field, all of which aren't even remotely as complex as an RPG character. With single characters that might change positions every few seconds, it would probably be very finicky.

Yes, luckily we only have 6 of those to control, not 20.

 

[x4nti]

ain't 4e critisized because of catering to realtime pc-fags? therefore this leads to the conclusion that inspiration from 4e should fit into a rtwp fighting system.

4E is a highly strategic and tactical turn-based combat simulator. I think the critique was more against how it's sort of got WoW-ified with clear roles: defender/striker/leader/controller and the wizard got seriously gimped, now that his abilities work more or less like a fighters.

 

[Lord Andre]

- Sawyer is to blame. Expected.
- Tim Cain is doing all he can to keep Sawyer in check. Expected
- Tim Cain is going to try and fix this shit in expert mod. Good luck.

Codex thinks Tim Cain Is A God Who Can Do No Wrong. Expected.

How does that even make any sense when Josh is the one telling people in forums that he doesn't want cooldowns in combat, and then Tim goes ahead and says there will be??

I must have logged off the planet for a few days. Where does Josh say he is against cooldowns and would have nothing of the sorts ?

Also Josh said: "Ma' wizzads got noting to do if he ran outta spellzors. Fix pleaze !" This sentence makes me chuckle.

 

[Infinitron]

How does that even make any sense when Josh is the one telling people in forums that he doesn't want cooldowns in combat, and then Tim goes ahead and says there will be??

I must have logged off the planet for a few days. Where does Josh say he is against cooldowns and would have nothing of the sorts ?

Not against cooldowns in general. Against cooldowns DURING combat (as opposed to cooldowns for replenishing spells BETWEEN combats)