Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Jaesun]

Looks like I missed all the fun.

They seem to not want to 'penalise' you later for using up spells/resources in one encounter, which is a bit disappointing. Cain ignored the bit about overall resource management in my question, instead focusing on the per-battle part.

We did make the HARD CORE mode milestone, a number of which various options could be introduced that may be more fitting to your liking.

 

[Jaesun]

Cain ignored the bit about overall resource management in my question, instead focusing on the per-battle part.

That's not surprising. It's obvious that they're still deliberating over that part. They haven't decided yet how punishing it should be. Maybe they want to make the game first and then playtest/tweak it.

Something like say a kind of reagent system in HARD CORE mode could possibly be interesting.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't know, I somehow doubt that the fundamentals of the magic system will be changed by any hardcore mode. But we'll see.

 

[wormix]

That's not surprising. It's obvious that they're still deliberating over that part.

Yeah it's to be expected, but I was hoping

 

[Captain Shrek]

Cain ignored the bit about overall resource management in my question, instead focusing on the per-battle part.

That's not surprising. It's obvious that they're still deliberating over that part. They haven't decided yet how punishing it should be. Maybe they want to make the game first and then playtest/tweak it.

Something like say a kind of reagent system in HARD CORE mode could possibly be interesting.

Believing in fairy tales. That shit will never be made again. You homos don't deserve it.

 

[Volrath]

Possibly Retarded.

 

[Infinitron]

I think a system where lower-level spells gradually become castable with no limitations can be interesting, in that it makes mighty high level mages much mightier. The difference between a hedge wizard and an Elminster-equivalent suddenly becomes much more tangible.

See that high level wizard? He's not going to run out of fireballs to throw at you, EVER. No cheesing your way out of this encounter!

 

[Captain Shrek]

I think a system where lower-level spells gradually become castable with no limitations can be interesting, in that it makes mighty high level mages much mightier. The difference between a hedge wizard and an Elminster-equivalent suddenly becomes much more tangible.

See that high level wizard? He's not going to run out of fireballs to throw at you, EVER. No cheesing your way out of this encounter!

Yup.

Except that his Ai will be retarded and the first spell you will cast will be save or die. He will cast fireball. You will take damage. He will die.

EDIt: Did I mention you will regen that spell per battle?

Also, if skills do not work we will remove them. Sounds a lot like DA2 streamlining.

 

[Infinitron]

Except that his Ai will be retarded and the first spell you will cast will be save or die. He will cast fireball. You will take damage. He will die.

You know this game will be made regardless of whether you are pessimistic or not, right?

 

[Captain Shrek]

Except that his Ai will be retarded and the first spell you will cast will be save or die. He will cast fireball. You will take damage. He will die.

You know this game will be made regardless of whether you are pessimistic or not, right?

Yes. I do.

 

[Aeschylus]

I think a system where lower-level spells gradually become castable with no limitations can be interesting, in that it makes mighty high level mages much mightier. The difference between a hedge wizard and an Elminster-equivalent suddenly becomes much more tangible.

See that high level wizard? He's not going to run out of fireballs to throw at you, EVER. No cheesing your way out of this encounter!

It's an interesting concept -- I'm not sure I love the idea of unlimited spells, even for high level wizards. Half of the point of being a wizard in RPGs (to me at least) has always been making appropriate and clever use of the resources at hand while balancing out the drawbacks, not just spamming the best spells over and over. D&D had some built in counters to things like this -- spell components, limited spellbook space, fatigue penalties for sorcerers, etc. That or there were penalties inherent to casting spells, such as haste aging the recipient.

Granted, these things don't translate all that well to CRPGs, where things have to be simplified due to the inherent limits of being bound by things other than the GMs imagination, but the basic concept behind having restrictions of wizards is sound. A high level wizard should be characterized by his/her wit, resourcefulness, and subtlety, not by being a walking fireball factory.

 

[Captain Shrek]

MetalCraze

Did you watch today's update?

 

[Jasede]

They should have used Vancian-style casting.
In before Vancian-haters fail to offer a better alternative.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I agree that this "hurr mages don't have actions they can do over and over like the fighters" thing is pretty dumb. They're different classes. And surprisingly people still play mages.
If a mage will be equivalent with a fighter spewing out arrows, then what the hell? The choice will be then only if you like to see cool explosions or cool fighting animations. What's with this stupid over-balancing? It's not a fucking multiplayer PvP game.

 

[Jaesun]

They should have used Vancian-style casting.
In before Vancian-haters fail to offer a better alternative.

That could be tied to the HARD CORE mode option. And I personally would like to see that. IF they could design encounters with that in mind. But I don't know.

 

[Infinitron]

A high level wizard should be characterized by his/her wit, resourcefulness, and subtlety, not by being a walking fireball factory.

Certainly. But I do feel that uber-level wizards should have the ability to be a "walking fireball factory". That's how they are described in the lore, as nigh-invincible masters of the elements.

But when you look at the mechanics of a Vancian system they seem rather mundane. Remember this line from BG? "Elminster this, Elminster that. Give *me* 2000 years and a pointy hat and I'll kick his arse!"

 

[Infinitron]

MetalCraze

Did you watch today's update?

Don't try to bring Skyway into this. He doesn't even like RPGs anymore.

Why concern yourself with a genre in decline when the realistic mil-sim genre is at its zenith? That's the basis of Skywayism.

 

[jewboy]

Well it might be interesting to play a game with god-like mages for a short period of time at least. Imagine the power of a mage that can spam Time Stop and Wail of the Banshee or other AoE instakill spells with only brief pauses in between endless castings. And then also be able to spam spells like web forever and ever. Such a character would make a mage from any cRPG I've ever played cower in fear. Even Kangaxx and Firkraag would be running for their lives. Just imagine facing a 20th level mage like that with good AI.

But somehow I don't think it will be a viable system. And obviously an all spell caster party would be the way to go in terms of min-maxing. I also have a suspicion that most of the drawbacks of playing a mage will be removed. You'll probably be able to also dual wield katanas almost as well as a dedicated fighter class. It would be weird if the enemy mages could as well. Although it's kind of pointless when you can basically spam 7-9th level spells until you are out; run and hide somewhere; and then come back recharged and spam them again. You'd be like a one man army and could probably take on entire armies of fire giants without cause for concern.

 

[Infinitron]

You'll probably be able to also dual wield katanas almost as well as a dedicated fighter class.

I don't see that there's any basis for this belief.

But yeah, we should ask Josh about class equipment restrictions.

 

[Shadenuat]

6-mage party raping dragons with 30 magic missiles per round, oh my god tis haven.

 

[Aeschylus]

A high level wizard should be characterized by his/her wit, resourcefulness, and subtlety, not by being a walking fireball factory.

Certainly. But I do feel that uber-level wizards should have the ability to be a "walking fireball factory". That's how they are described in the lore, as nigh-invincible masters of the elements.

When you look at the mechanics of a Vancian system they seem rather mundane. Remember this line from BG? "Elminster this, Elminster that. Give *me* 2000 years and a pointy hat and I'll kick his arse!"

Maybe. From a game mechanics point of view I just see it as being kind of boring. If the limitations of spellcasting gradually disappear then the gameplay challenge disappears with them. I suppose we'll have to just disagree on that. It's a fine balance between them being mundane as you put it, and becoming so powerful as to render all other classes pointless.

And yes, I do remember that line. The vancian system does seem a bit mundane when it's translated to a computer game, but in the PnP rules it has a great amount of depth to it. That's more based on the spell descriptions and the lore than the mechanics themselves though.

 

[taxalot]

Currently in Ultima V, I just hope for the presence of projectiles such as throwing axes.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Infinitron

I am not mad with Obsidian. I am mad with you people. It seems that most either don't care or are actively slurping this shit up like faithful pig familiars.

 

[jewboy]

PE should really be called Rage of Mages. Maybe the story will even revolve around the immense power of magic. How it gives god-like powers to men and makes melee fighting basically into a form of suicide if you ever have to face magic in combat. Of course if they are so intent on trying to supercharge the magic system with pure awesomeness then maybe it will only take a few strikes with an average sword to kill most foes.

 

[x4nti]

I don't think we should assume that spells in PE are going to be of the power-level that they were in ad&d and 3.xE.