Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Jasede]

Kill "Mrakvampire".

 

[Captain Shrek]

It's not popamole; it's next to impossible to get 20 CON and by the time you do you really don't need it because enemies are doing a _lot_ more damage than it could possibly help you with. (Yeah yeah, you're just using the term jokingly. But the romance thread is making me snappy.)

You are too nice for this place. Get a replacement of fangs. The old ones seem to have become blunt.

 

[Jaesun]

Or they could just do a Romance DLC. Then the sane people could just ignore that fucking shit. Period.

 

[catfood]

Or they could just do a Romance DLC. Then the sane people could just ignore that fucking shit. Period.

$5 per romance. Why not? Could be a great way for them to get addition funding for an expansion.

 

[Jasede]

I'm sorry Jaesun but I think that'd be retarded. I just want & expect Ziets/MCA to do their thing, along with Sawyer overseeing it. I'm 99% sure none of us would rage at whatever "romance" that produces; but it'll be not quite what the romance-tards in that thread are clamoring for. They just want to have the option to fuck every party member. Jesus.

 

[Jarpie]

Or they could just do a Romance DLC. Then the sane people could just ignore that fucking shit. Period.

$5 per romance. Why not? Could be a great way for them to get addition funding for an expansion.

Also outsource that to the Bioware fanfic writers, they would probably work for free so that they get their lousy writing to the game and make those idiots happy.

 

[catfood]

Or they could just do a Romance DLC. Then the sane people could just ignore that fucking shit. Period.

$5 per romance. Why not? Could be a great way for them to get addition funding for an expansion.

Even better: The "romance" ends up into a LJBF situtation. They can milk this even further: DLCs for DLCs. Get Out Of The Friend Zone DLC for only $4.99!

 

[Dexter]

wtf are you discussing "romances" for the last few pages now, Codex? xD

Now, what do you think about this gloriously worthy cause? http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61...ering-your-backgrounds-at-higher-resolutions/

 

[Jasede]

My personal favourite was Aerie's romance with a male PC. throughout BG2 and TOB she grew from a wingey, scared girl into quite a strong personality. Whilst it was a romance, and the PC and Aerie could eventually 'marry', it felt more like it was just a natural progression of the PC's relationship with a very deep, well developed character.

OH MY FUCKING GOD THIS HURTS MY HEAD
People like this can't actually exist! Being a hermit seems more appealing every day.

 

[CrustyBot]

You would be right... if we were talking about movies or books. But we are talking about videogames. Let me explain.
In books and movies the audience is passive. You have to read or watch something that the author wants to tell you. After that you can judge if that theme (or message) was worth your time, if you agree with the author and stuff like that. In that kind of environment "giving what the audience wants" is a bad thing because destroys the artistic freedom of the author and always turns out in boring and cheap stories.

But games are different. In games the audience is not passive, the players are the active force that drives the story forward. As the story goes on they make choices that change what happens, they shape their own experience. If the developers don't embrace this concept (which by the way is what makes games different from other kind of media as a form of art) then they create an interactive movie where the player has to fight his way thourgh dungeons (like in RPGs) or solve puzzles (like in graphic adventure games) to see how the story goes on. This is what every true RPG fan hates because limits freedom and doesn't take advantage of the strenghts of the media: the ability to provide interactive experiences.

What I want to say is that the developers should give the players the possibility to shape their own experience with their actions. This doesn't mean "including romance stories for the sake of having them", it means allowing the people who want to roleplay a romantic character to be free to do just that. If the developers think that spending time with romance stories is something that should have negative consequences within the world and the story they are want to create (i.e.: you shouldn't waste time having sex with your companion while the monsters are conquering the world) they should add some negative consequences within the gameplay. But limiting the player freedom by erasing romance stories is just a pure loss.

That is great and all, but you've simulatenously missed my point and proven it at the same time. Maybe you should read it again.

You're arguing for romances not because they have any specific narrative or thematic importance, but as a game feature for the purposes of wish fulfillment.

Also, you're confusing plot with narrative thematics. Whereas games are able to have non-linear plots unlike the layout of typical films, the prevailing themes of a game's narrative can still be present regardless of plot divergence and player initiative.

An example: Planescape: Torment.

I'm not arguing anything that you said, and I'm perfectly aware of the difference between narrative thematics and plot.

You have to understand that while movies and books use a linear story to deliver their narrative thematics games can't do just that, unless they want to become movies themselves. The developers can't scrap such an important feature just because it's not directly linked to the theme they want to express. If they want to create a true interactive experience that lets the player have real gameplay freedom they have to deal with the problem and find a fitting way to include everything in the game.

In story driven media (books, movies, dramas, opera, story driven games...) romance is one of the main themes, so you can't just ignore it if you are trying to craft an interactive experience that aims to "give freedom to the player".

All those fucking words to try and he can't simply see the truth that all he wants is a dating sim with a story for his self insert.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Maybe because they had stmaina regeneration? BaK had that button that returned you a handful of stamina and Darklands had constantly regenerating one, didn't it? Been so long since I played them.

 

[CrustyBot]

CrustyBot

Dude you are a bro. But please stop calling Darklands combat as some kind of inspiration for PE. It may have similar features and Sawyer may have mentioned several times how he likes and is inspired from Darklands, but the combat is nothing similar as far as we know.

Why the fuck every time I mention stamina regen everyone points to Betrayal at Krondor or Darklands??!!!

This is some kind of hivemind or something??!

The only point I tackled was the lie from you that Darklands does not have stamina (Endurance) regeneration. At all. You've been called out on it before, and there were dumbfucks who never played the game saying the concept is dumbing down. I just wanted to make it clear that Darklands did indeed have stamina regeneration and that it's not inherently evil as a mechanic and doesn't instantly equal Mass Effect 3 retardation.

Also, because I genuinely do not know. Has anyone confirmed that PE will feature Stamina regen during combat? Because that is at the crux of your argument of how bad PE's HP/Stamina system is going to be.

 

[Infinitron]

All those fucking words to try and he can't simply see the truth that all he wants is a dating sim with a story for his self insert.

Ah, but you see, it's not that simple. Bioware games, as well as many romance novels, work in the following fashion - they disguise the wish fulfillment "dating sim" aspect by cloaking it within the backdrop of an EPIC tale, with lots of lore and adventure.

It's that particular combination of "dating sim" + "EPIC" that gives the impression of a "deep" game to impressionable young minds who don't know any better.

 

[commie]

Fuck it. I tried bros on the Obsidian forums, but it's like driving nails into one's own head. Those freaks are just too much, too blind, too indoctrinated, too fucking fucked.

 

[Jasede]

You know it's bad when you'd rather keep playing NWN 2 OC than keep arguing with those kinds of people.

 

[Cosmo]

Ah, but you see, it's not that simple. Bioware games, as well as many romance novels, work in the following fashion - they disguise the wish fulfillment "dating sim" aspect by cloaking it within the background of an EPIC tale, with lots of lore and adventure.

It's that particular combination of "dating sim" + "EPIC" that gives the impression of a "deep" game to impressionable young minds who don't know any better.

Please explain that to them. Using the same words, preferably.

 

[Shadenuat]

When you take banter up to a level, it becomes romance. It is an evolution of what people want in their games.

 

[wormix]

Project Eternity has no combat regen (by your very own definition). You're a fucking retarded illiterate moron. And BaK had the most exploitable regen mechanic I've ever seen in a CRPG.

 

[Jasede]

Hey man... I don't think anyone here is asking for nude scenes and open sex in project eternity. I think the majority of the people in this post is just asking for good romance stories, the ones you can read in good books.

*asks for romances like in BG 2*
*compares BG 2 romances to romances you can read in a "good book"*

 

[J_C]

This is some kind of hivemind or something??!

Well you are on the Codex afterall! :D

 

[CrustyBot]

CrustyBot

Dude you are a bro. But please stop calling Darklands combat as some kind of inspiration for PE. It may have similar features and Sawyer may have mentioned several times how he likes and is inspired from Darklands, but the combat is nothing similar as far as we know.

Why the fuck every time I mention stamina regen everyone points to Betrayal at Krondor or Darklands??!!!

This is some kind of hivemind or something??!

The only point I tackled was the lie from you that Darklands does not have stamina (Endurance) regeneration. At all. You've been called out on it before.

Also, because I genuinely do not know. Has anyone confirmed that PE will feature Stamina regen during combat? Because that is at the crux of your argument of how bad PE's HP/Stamina system is going to be.

Then read again what I said. I have never said that Darklands had no regen whatsoever. I have always said that it has NO COMBAT REGEN.
EDIT:

Yes. Sawyer has claimed it. Sorry no source. But should be easy to verify. Worse, he has said:

1) It would be rapid
2) There would be abilities (on cooldown??) and spells (should be on cooldown but not sure) to regen it faster.

Also:
GarfunkeL

Neither did BaK have regen. That game was TB for Christ's sake and required to waste a turn to do it. It is more analogous to potions. Regen means automatic renewal without cost. Like in Skyrim/DA2/PE.

I honestly haven't heard about in-combat regen, I always assumed it'd be out of combat regen after encounters ala Darklands, or during travel, etc. Guess I'll be googling for the right Sawyer interview then. In the meantime, I can always risk making SAN my dump stat fight the good fight regarding romance.

 

[evdk]

Kill "Mrakvampire".

I concur, that person is a moron of the highest order.

 

[grotsnik]

...complaints about how games are different from other media and should therefore have romances!

^ That's pretty much exactly what Sawyer was talking about; that 'romances' as they're imagined in RPGs have fucking zero to do with the great love stories of any medium precisely because they're ruined by the problems of player agency. Your film or book romance involves the artist creating two fictional characters who then develop emotional attachments for one another according to the artist's whim, and the audience/reader gets to observe from a detached position, sympathising and engaging with the characters, but unable to interfere. In the Bioware paradigm, exactly because the player is the dominant active force and because certain elements of the roleplaying crowd really love this idea of the player 'becoming' the character, LARP-ing or in-depth play-acting or whatever you want to call it, romances end up being about the audience vicariously acting out the various steps of a love affair themselves, with a fucking fictional character as a moderately reactive object of desire, and using the player-character quite transparently as an extension of themselves. It's masturbatory by its very nature; it's wank-pillow playing-with-my-toys-and-peek-up-Barbie's-dress stuff, no matter how much its fans equivocate and rationalise the set-up with stuff like 'Oh, but love is an essential part of life and the truest human emotion! It's limiting the artistic potential of the game not to be able to falsely and shallowly simulate that essential part of life and truest human emotion with a bunch of pixels and a database, creating a dialogue mini-game where if you win, the elf says she loves you.' It's the gaming equivalent of 'I just read Playboy for the articles'. You're fooling no-one but yourself.

And no matter how talented the writer might be, they're fucked; because they're not writing two fictional characters who fall in love with one another organically based on each other's innate qualities. They're forcing one fictional character to say 'I FIND YOU VERY ATTRACTIVE, CHAR-NAME' to a charisma-less blank slate to satisfy the player hunched in the shadows behind it. They're programming a fuckbot.

...but really, there's no point arguing with these people. They have their philosophies all worked out to suit their predilections and nobody's going to convince them otherwise.

 

[Captain Shrek]

I honestly haven't heard about in-combat regen, I always assumed it'd be out of combat regen after encounters ala Darklands, or during travel, etc. Guess I'll be googling for the right Sawyer interview then. In the meantime, I can always risk making SAN my dump stat fight the good fight regarding romance.

Just ask Infinitron to link you.

 

[SwiftCrack]

Fuck it. I tried bros on the Obsidian forums, but it's like driving nails into one's own head. Those freaks are just too much, too blind, too indoctrinated, too fucking fucked.

rEApers.