Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Surf Solar]

It seems I never get the validation e-mail for their forums.

Happened to me too. No mail in spamfolder too.

 

[catfood]

It's almost as if Obsidian doesn't want any more codexers posting on their boards.

 

[Mrowak]

Do you remember Obsidian doing something similar ever in their games?

Yes, Alpha Protocol.

Where? It was dialog impacting gameplay and not the other way round. Ok there was that one, single instance when if you managed to finish the level with stealth you got more data... which weren't really that much useful for you. Nice job - one flavour shit that's useless to everyone - so it wasn't even well done.

Also the example of Alpha Protocol only strengthens my claim that their games are lacking and not thought-through. How about an example of gameplay mechanics working and not sucking arse (e.g. compare AP stealth to Mark of the Ninja - a platformer stealth game. Sorry to say but MotN wins - there's no contest).

One more thing: this time around they are going to have all that excelent quality story with tactical RTwP combat. I am really wondering how they are going to combine water and fire, because they haven't really shown they can accomplish that yet.

Hey, cool down buddy. I was obviously joking. I know that AP is not a good example.

I don't expect anything spectacular from Obsidian in terms of combat, since as I've said, I'm not a combatfag.

To be honest with you I am a storyfag myself... but for me all the more reasons for the combat to reflect onto the story in meaningful fashion or to get rid of it entirely and create better gameplay around story. Because, to be honest, gameplaywise none of story-focused games by Black Isle and Obsidian can be called anything more than a visual novel with redundant stuff added for good measure.

 

[Arkeus]

To be honest with you I am a storyfag myself... but for me all the more reasons for the combat to reflect onto the story in meaningful fashion or to get rid of it entirely and create better gameplay around story. Because, to be honest, gameplaywise none of story-focused games by Black Isle and Obsidian can be called anything more than a visual novel with redundant stuff added for good measure.

To be honest, i can't think of a single CRPG which has good combat throughout. In fact, the closest i can think of would be SoZ, and see what people above said about it.

 

[asper]

Good combat: KoTC, ToEE, Wiz8, BaK, Gold Box games. But those are games in a completely different style.

 

[Jasede]

Let's add Realms of Arkania 1-3 and Dark Heart of Uukrul to that list.

 

[Jarpie]

Fuck fucking fuck! I thought we'd manage to kill romance-thread but no, some new biodrone just gotta write new message.

 

[almondblight]

Just because some damage gets through the shield doesn't change the fact that it's a shield that can be restored fast.

How is it any more of a shield than HP in general? In most games, you fight just the same if you're at 100% HP or 10% HP. HP acts as a shield that keeps you alive when someone hits you in the face with an axe, until it runs out. It's also usually not that hard to restore it, as there's often a number of healing spells and potions, or regeneration. The difference here is that there are two shields, one that regenerates easily and only knocks you out when it runs out, and another that's hard to regenerate and kills you when it runs out. But both are shields, as much as all HP in games is.

 

[kris]

It seems I never get the validation e-mail for their forums.

Check your spam folder?

I did.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Has this thread usurped the forum vigilance thread or something? What's going on here?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Just because some damage gets through the shield doesn't change the fact that it's a shield that can be restored fast.

How is it any more of a shield than HP in general? In most games, you fight just the same if you're at 100% HP or 10% HP. HP acts as a shield that keeps you alive when someone hits you in the face with an axe, until it runs out. It's also usually not that hard to restore it, as there's often a number of healing spells and potions, or regeneration. The difference here is that there are two shields, one that regenerates easily and only knocks you out when it runs out, and another that's hard to regenerate and kills you when it runs out. But both are shields, as much as all HP in games is.

I'm referring to the concept of force shields in games. You have the shield and you have the hit points. Stamina here acts a shield and has all traits associated with force shields.

 

[Jasede]

Has this thread usurped the forum vigilance thread or something? What's going on here?

They were merged for some reason. I think it's because Jaesun wants to hit the high score and create the thread with the most pages ever.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm referring to the concept of force shields in games. You have the shield and you have the hit points. Stamina here acts a shield and has all traits associated with force shields.

But again, that is NOT confirmed. To me it sounds like you will have two "parallel" life bars, that will both be damaged at the same time. Not that one will "shield" the other.

 

[Jasede]

Just because some damage gets through the shield doesn't change the fact that it's a shield that can be restored fast.

How is it any more of a shield than HP in general? In most games, you fight just the same if you're at 100% HP or 10% HP. HP acts as a shield that keeps you alive when someone hits you in the face with an axe, until it runs out. It's also usually not that hard to restore it, as there's often a number of healing spells and potions, or regeneration. The difference here is that there are two shields, one that regenerates easily and only knocks you out when it runs out, and another that's hard to regenerate and kills you when it runs out. But both are shields, as much as all HP in games is.

I'm referring to the concept of force shields in games. You have the shield and you have the hit points. Stamina here acts a shield and has all traits associated with force shields.

It's different. In almost all games with force-shields you can still easily restore the HP through some means. Plus, more often than not, attacks won't "pierce" except for rarely. Sawyer's example shows that it's likely that even regular, normal attacks deplete HP. Before we debate this too much it'd probably be better to get more details out of him first.

But here's the thing: I doubt they even have decided on anything yet.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

They were merged for some reason. I think it's because Jaesun wants to hit the high score and create the thread with the most pages ever.

What a dildo.

 

[Vault Dweller]

BROS WE NEED TO VOTE FOR TORMENT, BG2 IS WINNING IT'S A SHAME SINCE IT'S NOT EVEN THEIR GAME TO START WITH, LOLOLOL CALL OF DUTY.

http://www.obsidianent.com/component/poll/28-poll-pe-whichgame.html

A game they mentioned first on the KS page to attract its fans is winning? What an unexpected turn of events!

Obsidian Entertainment and our legendary game designers Chris Avellone, Tim Cain, and Josh Sawyer are excited to bring you a new role-playing game for the PC. Project Eternity (working title) pays homage to the great Infinity Engine games of years past: Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment.

Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.

We are an independent video game developer specializing in role-playing games. We were founded in 2003 by five industry veterans from Black Isle Studios: Feargus Urquhart, Chris Parker, Darren Monahan, Chris Avellone, and Chris Jones. While at Black Isle we worked with BioWare, the creators of the Infinity Engine, on the development of the Baldur's Gate series, and were responsible for the creation and development of the Infinity Engine-based Icewind Dale series and Planescape: Torment game. Also at Black Isle we created the first two titles in the award-winning Fallout series: Fallout and Fallout 2.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm not sure why you guys are surprised. The game as described sounds like it should be like Baldur's Gate.

 

[Vault Dweller]

But again, that is NOT confirmed. To me it sounds like you will have two "parallel" life bars, that will both be damaged at the same time. Not that one will "shield" the other.

It's not confirmed, I agree, so I offer nothing but my thoughts (after being asked). However, the example posted does suggest that the stamina acts a shield:

Here's an example. Bob the Fighter has 32 Stamina and 30 Health. He gets hit by a number of attacks that subtract 25 Stamina and 5 health (leaving him with 8 Stamina and 25 Health). He is a fighter, so he chooses to use one of his abilities to regenerate Stamina. He does this and quickly bounces from 8 Stamina to 15. Unfortunately, he gets smacked again for 20 Stamina and 4 Health. He is knocked out (effectively 0 Stamina) and at 21 Health. The guys who knocked him out move to other targets.

Francine the priest casts restore stamina on Bob when combat is over. He recovers to full Stamina quickly, but is still at 21 Health. Depending on how the next few fights go, they will either have to retreat to rest or find a safe resting spot up ahead."

Furthermore, from the KS page:

"The majority of damage a character takes is subtracted from his or her Stamina. Stamina represents how much general abuse a character can take before falling unconscious. Characters lose it quickly and regain it relatively rapidly, even without assistance."

aka a shield.

 

[Volrath]

I think stamina will end up impacting your combat efficiency and spellcasting.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It's different. In almost all games with force-shields you can still easily restore the HP through some means.

You can - by resting.

"For players, the Health of their party members is a tether that makes them consider how far they are willing to venture from a safe resting spot."

 

[Infinitron]

"The majority of damage a character takes is subtracted from his or her Stamina. Stamina represents how much general abuse a character can take before falling unconscious. Characters lose it quickly and regain it relatively rapidly, even without assistance."

aka a shield.

But nothing in that post implies that the stamina is "shielding" the health. Just that stamina is damaged by greater absolute amounts than health. And if you've got no stamina, and enemies are whacking on your unconscious body, you're dead anyway.

 

[~RAGING BONER~]

the concept of stamina and health is easy to understand if your an athlete.

in boxing you take or miss a hit and you get winded a lot quicker than if you dish out a steady stream of hits or successfully block or dodge them...

If you take a critical hit, say to the face or kidneys etc. you not only take a stamina hit but you suffer damage that accumulates over the course of the fight or may even knock you out altogether.

the regenerating stamina bar also makes a lot of sense because fighters do this shit all the time too...often times a fighter will come out strong in a fight only to prove unsuccessful and essentially wear himself out. He will then slow down his pace, focus on defense and observe the opponent until he can recover his lost stamina and try a new strategy.

critical body damage takes a long time to heal, energy/vigor/stamina can be replenished with a few deep breaths and some cold water.

It is a much more realistic approach to the body than the standard HP nonsense + red potion of infinite healings.

 

[Shadenuat]

Stamina/HP is an interesting system, but it's usually applied to make better use of unlethal types of damage (I think GURPS uses different types of damage for that). For example, in Arcanum a hit with staff dealt more stamina damage than hp damage.

However, if using special moves won't use up stamina, seems like system won't achieve it's potential.

 

[almondblight]

I'm referring to the concept of force shields in games. You have the shield and you have the hit points. Stamina here acts a shield and has all traits associated with force shields.

But that's my point. HP is exactly the same. It acts as a shield and has all the traits associated with force shields. So why is stamina so bad when it does more or less what HP has been doing for years?

 

[Vault Dweller]

"The majority of damage a character takes is subtracted from his or her Stamina. Stamina represents how much general abuse a character can take before falling unconscious. Characters lose it quickly and regain it relatively rapidly, even without assistance."

aka a shield.

But nothing in that post implies that the stamina is "shielding" the health. Just that stamina is damaged by greater absolute amounts than health. And if you've got no stamina, and enemies are whacking on your unconscious body, you're dead anyway.

Just think about it.

You have your HPs - the real deal. Lose them and you're dead. No resurrection spells for you. Serious business. The hardcore games rejoice. "Yay! Death is serious business! Hooray!"

Then Obsidian turns around to the casuals and Bio fans and says "while death is indeed a very serious business, you have stamina points! What are the stamina points, you ask? Well, they are just like hit points but they can be regenerated fast and if you lose them you are not dead as long as you have one last party member standing. Or running around trying to regen stamina. You know, like in Dragon Age. The casual gamers rejoice. "Yay! Just like Dragon Age! Hooray!"