Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Cynic]

I don't think Dark Souls would work for this kind of game. To include respawning at campsites you'd have to remove any exp gained from mobs and make it all objective based which I guess they are doing anyway. That way you couldn't simply farm trash encounters and get too overpowered. On the other hand I don't think people would enjoy it. In DS you can run past those trash encounters whenever you want. I think it would be difficult in a IE type game to run past all the encounters. Mobs would still chase you around the large caves in IWD. In DS after you move far enough out the mobs will simply go back to their starting spot similar to a MMO.

Of course it wouldn't be an exact copy, but an adaptation. And the EXP problem is easily solved by giving less EXP based on number of monster type killed, which is a far more believable system anyway than just Monster X gives EXP value Y.

 

[Jasede]

This isn't applicable for PE but l'd just make it more of a video game than a realistic RPG. Encounters would be like KOTC except resting would respawn all killed enemies OR extinguish the resting place. No aim for realism, just for balanced encounters that'd be graded by a point system. Doing better leads to better rewards and you'd get ratings for stages.

It'd probably even use a console-style save-at-resting-places-only system. It'd be the God Hand of RPGs where everything is about managing your resources from encounter to encounter and having to restart the entire segment if you fail, until you get good enough to get by- and get a terrible score since you did so poorly. Why hasn't anyone made that kind of game yet? Feels like a niche that could be explored.

I wish there was an RPG that had combined the kind of sharp encounter / level design games like Timesplitters 2, Bayonetta and God Hand exhibit, with the tight balance of a japanese Shoot 'em Up that rewards getting better - and won't let you progress until you do.

 

[tuluse]

Shield + Health goes back to Marathon at least, so really it's about as old school as anything

uh oh.
DOOM.

Are you trying to imply that armor in DOOM was like a shield?

Because if you are, you're very wrong.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Shield + Health goes back to Marathon at least, so really it's about as old school as anything

uh oh.
DOOM.

Are you trying to imply that armor in DOOM was like a shield?

Because if you are, you're very wrong.

It slowed the health loss. But yeah. Not shield as in must be depleted before losing health.

 

[Captain Shrek]

This isn't applicable for PE but l'd just make it more of a video game than a realistic RPG. Encounters would be like KOTC except resting would respawn all killed enemies OR extinguish the resting place. No aim for realism, just for balanced encounters that'd be graded by a point system. Doing better leads to better rewards and you'd get ratings for stages.

It'd probably even use a console-style save-at-resting-places-only system. It'd be the God Hand of RPGs where everything is about managing your resources from encounter to encounter and having to restart the entire segment if you fail, until you get good enough to get by- and get a terrible score since you did so poorly. Why hasn't anyone made that kind of game yet? Feels like a niche that could be explored.

I wish there was an RPG that had combined the kind of sharp encounter / level design games like Timesplitters 2, Bayonetta and God Hand exhibit, with the tight balance of a japanese Shoot 'em Up that rewards getting better - and won't let you progress until you do.

Annoyance is NOT balance.

Simply do not allow rest and desing encounters accordingly. What you are doing is punishing the player for what he SHOULD be doing. Punish him for not being tactical instead.

 

[Jasede]

I feel like I'm a broken record here.
Sawyer's quote strongly indicates that every hit will subtract both health and stamina.

 

[Spectacle]

Looks like I missed out on details about the stamina / health system. Obviously for people to call it an energy shield Obsidian must have announced that :

• Stamina will recharge very fast after a few seconds without being hit
• Stamina needs to be depleted before health is hit.
• Depleting stamina will not knock you down.
• If you play well, you'll never take but stamina damage.

Can someone provide me a link to those statements ?

I don't know why you can't scan the last pages for the relevant quote which has been copy and pasted at the very least five times. Because I am in a good mood - a fancy 200$ dinner, a lovely evening at the ACT theater, a delicious dessert at the Seattle center along with a double espresso, I will briefly summarize it for your benefit, or rather, answer your bullet points.

Check out this Wikipedia article Jasede, it's pretty cool: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question

 

[Jasede]

This isn't applicable for PE but l'd just make it more of a video game than a realistic RPG. Encounters would be like KOTC except resting would respawn all killed enemies OR extinguish the resting place. No aim for realism, just for balanced encounters that'd be graded by a point system. Doing better leads to better rewards and you'd get ratings for stages.

It'd probably even use a console-style save-at-resting-places-only system. It'd be the God Hand of RPGs where everything is about managing your resources from encounter to encounter and having to restart the entire segment if you fail, until you get good enough to get by- and get a terrible score since you did so poorly. Why hasn't anyone made that kind of game yet? Feels like a niche that could be explored.

I wish there was an RPG that had combined the kind of sharp encounter / level design games like Timesplitters 2, Bayonetta and God Hand exhibit, with the tight balance of a japanese Shoot 'em Up that rewards getting better - and won't let you progress until you do.

Annoyance is NOT balance.

Simply do not allow rest and desing encounters accordingly. What you are doing is punishing the player for what he SHOULD be doing. Punish him for not being tactical instead.

Either approach works and has certain pros and cons depending on taste. You can do the respawning- which is somewhat artificial but works for this purpose or you can simply make the rest-spot one-use only. The problem with the latter is that if the player runs out of resources or dies he'll be screwed unless he made a save-game. But then again, I guess that isn't much of a problem, unless he only uses one slot.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Either approach works and has certain pros and cons depending on taste. You can do the respawning- which is somewhat artificial but works for this purpose or you can simply make the rest-spot one-use only. The problem with the latter is that if the player runs out of resources or dies he'll be screwed unless he made a save-game. But then again, I guess that isn't much of a problem, unless he only uses one slot.

There is nothing wrong in saving the game either.

 

[Jasede]

Looks like I missed out on details about the stamina / health system. Obviously for people to call it an energy shield Obsidian must have announced that :

• Stamina will recharge very fast after a few seconds without being hit
• Stamina needs to be depleted before health is hit.
• Depleting stamina will not knock you down.
• If you play well, you'll never take but stamina damage.

Can someone provide me a link to those statements ?

I don't know why you can't scan the last pages for the relevant quote which has been copy and pasted at the very least five times. Because I am in a good mood - a fancy 200$ dinner, a lovely evening at the ACT theater, a delicious dessert at the Seattle center along with a double espresso, I will briefly summarize it for your benefit, or rather, answer your bullet points.

Check out this Wikipedia article Jasede, it's pretty cool: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question

I'm in a rare fey mood so I'll overlook your insolence and simply state that I'm merely being puckish.

 

[Marceror]

For those who are interested, I have posted a new interview with Adam Brennecke, Project Director for Project Eternity.

 

[Jasede]

What also amazes me is the way one particular person is trying to diminish romances by calling them minigames. I'm sorry, but everything is a minigame in a Role Played Game. Dialogue minigames, quest minigames, combat minigames, leveling minigames, shopping minigames etc., etc. To say minigames are evil is basically to undermine the whole genre.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61...romance-thread-pt2/page__st__200#entry1254873

I don't want to live anymore.

 

[Captain Shrek]

For those who are interested, I have posted a new interview with Adam Brennecke, Project Director for Project Eternity.

 

[Volrath]

That's a cool interview.

 

[Minttunator]

For those who are interested, I have posted a new interview with Adam Brennecke, Project Director for Project Eternity.

Really good interview, thanks!

 

[Jarpie]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61...romance-thread-pt2/page__st__220#entry1254922

I'd really enjoy a posting history of you, jarpie, Jasede, evdk and Living One, for example

Posted up against qloher, Kymriana, me and a few others who want romances open as a possibility.

We'll compare who results to ad hominem first, the most and who actually posts constructive, intelligent, well thought out, legitimate posts that don't reek of self importance. I already know who's going to sound more reasonable and mature out of that pile.

 

[Minttunator]

That's absolutely hilarious, Jarpie. That guy has been the poster boy for ad hominem and passive aggressive bullshit over there. Well, I took him up on his offer and had a quick look through his post history. Pretty sure my answer will be deleted, though - even if he asked for it himself.

 

[Jarpie]

That's absolutely hilarious, Jarpie. That guy has been the poster boy for ad hominem and passive aggressive bullshit over there. Well, I took him up on his offer and had a quick look through his post history. Pretty sure my answer will be deleted, though - even if he asked for it himself.

Talk about stepping into your mine...

qloher:

Jasede
Ok, can you for example reason me with facts why going a friendship route with a companion is not a minigame while romance is? It would be interesting for me to hear.

Me:

How about this, with romances you pretty much always have to choose the right responses or the romance cuts off but with friendships it doesnt. In BG2 you have praised for doing good romances you always have to choose the right response or romance is off.

HereticSaint chimes in:

The problem is that isn't how real romances work, you don't say one wrong thing and then they always end. Friendships are the exact same way. If you say something stupid enough you could end either in a single sentence, that doesn't mean it's how it should -always- work.

 

[CrustyBot]

You will suffer permanent SAN loss if you try to debate with someone like HereticSaint, Jarpie.

Perhaps it's experience from debating with people on the BSN, but when dealing with people like that, it's better to disengage and let it go. People like that are adept at twisting the arguments of people they disagree with in a kind of patronizing manner. When called out on their BS, they try to deflect by shifting goalposts, engaging in Ad Hominem and beating down strawmen they create.

 

[Minttunator]

I think you're probably right, CrustyBot - I guess it's just not worth it in the long term. The hypocrisy some of those tards display is just mind numbing.

 

[Comrade Goby]

Holy fuck that person is like arguing with a feminist or religious person.

It's such an absurd point that you can't even rationally argue against it. All logic breaks down.

 

[Volrath]

I think it's better to just ignore those romance threads all together and trust in the judgement of Avellone and Ziets.
We're dealing with them and not Gaydar or Hamburger Hepler.

 

[DraQ]

Personally I would go with three tiered system.

You'd have stamina which would regenerate rapidly all the time and essentially represent momentary fatigue, getting out of breath and so on. It would have small, relatively rapidly depleted pool and be consumed by everything - being hit, dodging, blocking, performing actions. Running out would make you winded and incapable of actively defending yourself, running or performing major actions.

You'd have fatigue, that would be depleted at much slower pace. It would be burned by actions or taking hits, it would also burn steadily on its own, though less rapidly out of combat. It would represent daily fatigue and would only be restored by resting (or being unconscious). Running out would cause unconsciousness.

Then you'd have health system (preferably not just HPs). Health damage would require healing items or actions and long periods of rest to recover.
Critical damage to vital points, severe overall damage or too much blood loss permakill the character.

Both fatigue and stamina would serve as modifiers to all actions as well as statistical shield for health, greatly reducing the chance of direct health damage and likely reducing its severity (via attempted active or passive defensive actions and favourable modifiers to them) unless the attack was indefensible either due to its nature or insufficient abilities of the defender.

 

[suejak]

I would actually go with a four-tiered system.

I would use Stamina, Fatigue, Health, and Morale.

Morale would be depleted at a moderate pace, and it would be damaged by actions or taking hits. It would represent the psychological fatigue or stamina (health) of your character. You would need time or resting to recover this, or perhaps spells/songs and encouraging words.

This would also help to better emulate the realities of actual combat and adventure, in which it is much more realistic to encourage and inspire your allies during battle to keep them performing at peak capacity. You could help restore Morale temporarily by using "encouragement" on each other, etc.

I think this would be a great system too -- sort of an extension of Draq's.

 

[Roguey]

Now for something relevant, but equally inane

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61689-i-want-to-apologize-on-behalf-of-the-internet/

Seeing the terrible harassment in the live stream comments last night made me cringe. I'd just like the Obsidian staff to know we're not all horribly misogynistic, racist, socially-stunted a-holes and we are sorry you had to see that.

Sincerely,
Hopefully the majority of your backers

Where's Surf Solar and Roguey? Have they posted their thoughts on this yet?

I'm not a backer so I don't really care, heh. But it's good to know how easily one can step into the "omg you misogonyst!11" trap, a lesson I already learned with my own games demo.

The funniest thing is, that it's mostly not even women who cry out for this stuff, but males.

Salty is a woman, you can just fuck right off back to your insane emotional rollercoaster relationship "pal."