Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Jasede]

I'm just offering...
...solutions.

 

[kris]

I'm just offering...
...solutions.

the... final solution?

 

[Jaesun]

What else do Germans think about?

 

[bminorkey]

There are many ways to be creative with the journal, but I would prefer one where the player takes an active role. Geneforge did this in an interesting way, quests you got were automatically jotted down for you, but only the basic task and not anything surrounding it. Instead of being spoon-feed each and every step of a quest you had to manually write down important parts of conversations you've had yourself.

Let me make up an example to better illustrate what this does in practice. A farmer is missing one of his hens and wants you to find it for him, you now have "Find hen for farmer x" among your quests. Next you speak to another farmer and he mentions in passing that he saw an suspicious individual carrying a hen heading towards the east, now in many games this would have updated your quest entry but this is not the case here. The quest entry doesn't change, but if you were attentive and read what he said you now have written down the relevant information in your journal for future reference and are hopefully one step closer to finishing the quest.

Please don't add unnecessary busy work to the game. If I wanted that I'd be off collecting Rat Teeth (that seemingly only drop from one of out every ten rats) in World of Warcraft.

I personally like the idea. Which Obsididrone do you side with, sisters?

 

[Jaesun]

The non fucking retard one?

 

[Esquilax]

It's one of those ideas that sound good in theory, but in practice, they don't work out. While the player should be rewarded for paying attention to things, I find this extremely inconvenient. If I have to put the game down for a few days because I'm busy, then resolving that quest is going to be one giant pain in the ass because I don't remember a single fucking thing I've done the last time I was playing. Besides, writing shit down is the entire purpose of a journal - you should at least get updates on the basic gist of what you've managed to figured out so far. Of course, provided your character has the right set of skills to figure out the quest, you might have a clearer picture of events as they transpire.

Off the top of my head, a good example of rewarding the player for paying attention comes from Knights of the Old Republic of all places. You're given a quest to figure out who was guilty of murdering a settler, and you have to pay attention to the inconsistencies of the two murder suspects to find out who did it. There were some problems in the quest, but I thought the idea was really great.

Bottom line, I think that there's far better ways of making players use their head than making it a huge pain in the ass to compile the information that your character should reasonably know.

 

[bminorkey]

It's more of a LARP sort of thing, you basically compile (for the most part) your characters' journals instead of having it automated with pre-written script. It could give a nice personal touch to the journey. At the same time it could become a pain in the ass. I really like the idea of having the degree of automation dependent on character skills.

Also, on the (tangential) subject of interesting investigation quests coming from unlikely games, Skyrim's Brotherhood entry quest involves you interrogating three subjects and executing the one you think is guilty (or you could butcher all three of them. You know, just to be safe). The interrogation wasn't particularly deep, but what struck me about it was that you never learn whether you made the right choice.

 

[mediocrepoet]

If the game wants you to jot down notes I'd prefer the really old no journal type of game then - and those are a bitch to get back into if you get busy or sidetracked for awhile. But the last thing I need is to wonder if the journal's updating with what I think it is and trying to make my partial notes be congruent with the automated notes.

If I think I need to jot down relevant information, I probably wouldn't consult the automated journal at all. If I have quests in the journal, one of which is find hens or whatever - how the fuck am I going to know that a man ran off east with them if I didn't write down on my own that the man going east is related to the fact that I need to find some hens? You might as well just ditch the feature entirely.

 

[suejak]

I'm slowly growing tired of "quest" logbooks. Especially ones that come with GPS data attached.

I wouldn't mind a little more effort asked of the player, and I also like bminorkey's idea of having "the degree of automation dependent on character skills," but that can backfire (players would feel like it's a mandatory skill to dump points into) and it's strange to increase the burden of the player just because the character is bad at organizing. After all, somebody's going to be doing the organization. If the character sucks at it, that just means the player needs to crack out his notepad instead. Not exactly accomplishing much.

 

[Jaesun]

I'm a bit biased because I DO play a lot of Adventure games where I write craploads of notes and also jot down some of my ideas on things. Should EVERY quest in the game force the player to play Adventure game detective? No (as in read the chat log, read the info in the journal, and then start making logical assumptions on how to proceed). Would *I* like it like that? Fuck yes, but that is not really the scope of PE (an IE like cRPG). But I do not want quest log to be "Journal updated" Go speak to Fargle Boobinward at the Elven city of Treevile, in the merchant district, the 3rd house on the left. Some form of balance would be nice.

 

[Sensuki]

Quoting this because I think it got missed with the post approval system and all.
...
Nice to see someone who cares for feedback. I very much liked that interview.

Thanks. I think those guys seem to be too busy with their current 'conversation' hahah.

 

[Jasede]

I may be biased because, well, degenerates have to stick together but that Nidrolok guy is a genuinely fine poster, sporting only correct and Codex-approved opinions.

Now if only he lost the 'stache.

 

[Jarpie]

Hehe, what a surprise, Merin couldn't argue my points so he resorted to his usual tactics.

 

[Shannow]

What else do Germans think about?

Well, in Jasede's case: Gay fucking while wearing furry suits.

 

[DraQ]

What do you guise think, should game ask motivations for the actions or keep them completely out of the game?

I'm generally in favour of keeping such stuff out. Tracking character's internal state can be interesting, but developers can't predict all motivations a character may reasonably have in every situation.

Stun is gifted individual, I remember him from the world reactivity thread, valiantly defending lack of timed quests by claiming that leaving somebody in a burning building while he goes potion shopping should not result in said persons death. Oh yeah.

(Also, link plos.)

 

[evdk]

DraQ

The guy's a LARPer. His argument boiled down to "I can simulate urgency in my head, no need for the game to bother me with details".
The fun can be found in these two threads:
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60235-urgency-please-have-it/
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60...onsequences-and-parallel-non-linear-missions/

First Stun's post on the matter is here, but both threads should be read in their entirety, they are just that good
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60235-urgency-please-have-it/page__st__60#entry1201916

 

[Jarpie]

OW WOW! Merin is just lultastic nutter.

He sent me a P M

That's debating?

You think that's honest and respectful debating?

You win... you are on /ignore. With message block. Maybe at some point the moderators will start taking action against people like you.

So basicly he does what he knows best "Imma gonna ignore yoo becooz I cant come up with proper arguments!"

 

[hoverdog]

 

[Blaine]

 

[Jaesun]

So basically his inability to properly discuss things, is you people trolling and now he is all butthurt: WAAAAAAAAA! Close thread! Stupid mean trolls!

Jebus.

 

[evdk]

I would support the close thread motion, but I've been saying that for the last three of them.

 

[Jaesun]

The fact it is so derailed AND there is NO new romance thread is a good thing.

 

[Jarpie]

The fact it is so derailed AND there is NO new romance thread is a good thing.

And who started the whole derailment for the C&C, reactivity etc?

It was me.

 

[Kraszu]

Having to write everything down would be tedious, but your journal could only have conversations that were relevant to the quest instead of summaries. But what really would add to the game is Discworld Noir like system where you could ask about any NPC (could you ask about specific thing that somebody had told you about as well? I don't recall exactly I had played it 12 years ago), and about any of your item using menu without having to write everything.

 

[Keshik]

I would support the close thread motion, but I've been saying that for the last three of them.

It won't last though. That gets closed down, Merin'll make another one with some provision about only mature people with open minds, etc. etc. Or maybe I'm just being too pessimistic.