Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Tigranes]

The active quests log is worse than the journal entry.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Whether they are correct or not has not been shown anywhere.

You don't need to explain what is self evident. If we had to do that for every single thing we say we would be spending our entire lives justifying our opinions every inch of the way. That's really not practical now, is it? So yeah, Biowhore games are shit because feminism and wimminz writing homofag fanfiction crap, among many other things. What else do you need to know?

 

[Lyric Suite]

You are answering your own question in the same sentence. If its obvious, then it does not need to be explained.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Answering your own questions now?

Maybe. Maybe not. I would eventually like to get a naive outlook into WHY of it though. But I am terrible with literary theory as of now. Sometime later I guess.

 

[Blaine]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...2d-isometric-engine-again.76197/#post-2273653

In my opinion, if a game has graphics, the quality of art direction is important regardless of the technology used.

However, your stated preference for 3D visuals and opinion that they're "better" is in fact classic graphics whoring, despite your constant insistence that you aren't a graphics whore. You are a graphics whore, Captain Shrek.

 

[Hormalakh]

Shrek, you're a graphics whore who doesn't understand why consoles are bad and can't hold up your end of a debate to save your life. Your best and apparently only technique is to twist other posters' words to suit your agenda and bombard them with questions.

Whether they are correct or not has not been shown anywhere.

I'll show you something:

Spoiler

I know I'm getting ahead of myself with this baby thing, but hear me out.

Let's say we have a kid. Or adopt, or whatever. Your ship's no place to raise anything short of a tuk'ata. Way too many sharp corners and Sithy things lying around.

Maybe we convert the medbay into a nursery. All it needs is a few lights, some decorations. Maybe Guinn could pull nanny duty. No kiddie leashes, though.

But seriously, no pressure or anything. I'm just planning for the future--now that you're stuck with me, we're in love, all that mushy stuff.

Wait Blaine...is this .... actual writing from a game?!?

 

[Broseph]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...2d-isometric-engine-again.76197/#post-2273653

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/pc-vs-consoles.67503/

read these threads for explanations.

Updated my CodexRetards.txt.

 

[tuluse]

"Sithy things"

I know this is meant to be funny, and it is, but not for the reasons they wanted it to be.

 

[CrustyBot]

Spoiler

I know I'm getting ahead of myself with this baby thing, but hear me out.

Let's say we have a kid. Or adopt, or whatever. Your ship's no place to raise anything short of a tuk'ata. Way too many sharp corners and Sithy things lying around.

Maybe we convert the medbay into a nursery. All it needs is a few lights, some decorations. Maybe Guinn could pull nanny duty. No kiddie leashes, though.

But seriously, no pressure or anything. I'm just planning for the future--now that you're stuck with me, we're in love, all that mushy stuff.

Didn't SWTOR also send out emails from the NPCs saying that they were missing you if you unsubscribed?

Fucking hell.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Crusty!

Where have you been!???

 

[Brayko]

His review of the Thief games was pretty good so i'm not sure what's up with this guy. Perhaps his crappy vblog actually makes him money and he feels like he has to suck up to mainstream opinions to get the checks flowing in.

Yeah perhaps I spoke a bit prematurely or ignorantly. After reviewing some of his, well, reviews, it seems that some of them are quite solid and his opinions are usually not much different than mine, minus all the eccentricity (that's what internet people want, though). I don't think Obsidian deserves all that slam though, I'm not crazy about Obsidian but at least they try to make games with actual substance instead of random consoletard trade-in title #5342461. Give them credit where it's due!

 

[Blaine]

Yeah retard. Expecting good graphics is now graphics whoring.

Yes, I'm the retarded one. Expecting high-tech 3D graphics in every game isn't graphics whoring at all! How could I have been so misguided?

You are trying too hard to fit in Blaine.

Yeah nah, my opinion on this subject has been the same since the 1990s.

 

[Esquilax]

Even when I agree with Rageaholic (i.e. Thief is the greatest fucking game ever made) I am filled with disgust every single time he spits out a lame, unfunny one-liner. I hate the presentation, the failed attempts at humor, and the rapid-fire delivery that's clearly a ripoff of Yahtzee. He's terrible - I hate this entire trend of "Angry" video game reviewer types who "tell it like it is" but in reality they like the same shit as the Gamespot and IGN crowd. Hey, I love me some popamole too sometimes, but this is so full of shit it's unbearable. Is it too much to ask for a few solid reviewers that explain why they like things, are concise, and have a lot of knowledge of past games to compare things to?

He does have a nice old-school metal selection though.

 

[CrustyBot]

Crusty!

Where have you been!???

Holidays/Lurking.

re: graphics whorism, I don't necessarily disagree with your arguments, but potential and theoretical advantages don't quite turn out the same as reality. 3d allows for many improvements, especially gameplay wise (use of extra axis, physics/environmental simluation, etc). But I think the transition to 3d and technical improvements has bred a design view that marginalizes quote unquote art. With all the improvements on the technical side of things: post processing, increased texture detail, more polygons, etc, it's reduced the need or ability to pin together a coherent and rich art style. That's not to say you can't make beautiful 3d games, or that 2d is inherently better but check out the 2d iso appreciation thread and you'll realise that there's stuff in there that 3d games will never be able to replicate. Then when you add in the fact that a majority of 3d games don't take advantage of their strengths to begin with, and that the rise of 3d coincidentally correlates with the rise of the decline, it's easy to see why 2d is considered better, for RPGs at least.

re: consoles vs PC, didn't read the whole thread, but the obvious divergence in design stem from the fact of playing on a TV vs playing on a monitor. In terms of hardware, consoles are really shit computers, but things like the cinematic trend and removing text with IMMERSIVE UI gained momentum in the console paradigm (moreso than the PC) because of TV vs monitor. Cinematics help to recreate a loungeroom movie experience (except that you're the hero zomg!) and reading a block of text is a bitch if you have a small resolution stretched onto a 40"+ HDTV from several metres away. That's in addition to the issues with control scheme. It's why RTS/City Builder games will always be shit on consoles, for example.

re: Razorfist, I won't condemn his points altogether, as I do believe that Obsidian has under-achieved and not all of that can be laid at the publisher's feet (NWN 2 OC). But I remember watching his video review on New Vegas when it came out, and he spent half the video bitching about the bugs. He spent the other half bitching about how it didn't have enough dialog, and that it was too hard.

Probably one of those guys who didn't read the "DEATHCLAWS GONNA FUCK YOU UP NEWBIE" signs, then complains about how it makes the thing linear because the world is dangerous. Can't imagine how he'd feel about Gothic.

 

[Broseph]

Is it too much to ask for a few solid reviewers that explain why they like things, are concise, and have a lot of knowledge of past games to compare things to?

Spoony.

 

[suejak]

Captain Shrek Maybe it's that you're obviously not a native speaker, or your youth, or your mental problems, but I have no idea how someone can claim that 3D is inherently an improvement over 2D.

You say it's "surprising" that Bioware took to 3D with NWN... but it's not at all. Mass-market games have been 3D because the public really wanted 3D games.

NWN was considered to have pretty OK art when it was released. The philosophy used to be that, because 3D was the cutting edge and most computers were beginning to come equipped with 3D-acceleration capabilities, utilizing 3D models showed that your game was "modern". Sprites and 2D backgrounds were considered old-hat. This is also the reason Grim Fandango, an adventure game, was 3D -- same with Gabriel Knight 3 and Escape from Monkey Island. Everything had to be 3D. It was an annoying phase of video game history.

I don't get why "art style" means to you "bleeding-edge technology". 2D has an aesthetic quality 3D doesn't have. The reverse is also true.

Anyway, yeah. You say weird shit. Weirdo.

 

[Broseph]

Kind of like how the Might and Magic series was lambasted for its "aging" graphics in MM6 through 8, when in retrospect their use of sprites has been really beneficial; they are a lot easier on the eyes than MM9 is today. Going 3D was the "in" thing back then, but most of those games haven't aged very well.

Take most any 3D game from 2001 and look at it today; you will say it looks like shit. Take Arcanum and apply a high resolution patch? Looks gorgeous.

 

[tuluse]

Modern GPUs cannot produce visuals in real time as good pre-rendered IE engine backgrounds looked. Full stop. Until they can, 3D is not inherently superior to 2D circa 1998.

 

[suejak]

http://www.gamespot.com/neverwinter-nights/reviews/neverwinter-nights-review-2872002/


"However, with Neverwinter Nights, BioWare has finally put to rest its long-lasting Infinity engine seen in those games, opting instead for a fully 3D engine that lets you zoom and rotate your view to your liking. It also allows for some detailed, well-animated characters and good-looking environments. "

"Neverwinter Nights has been in development for years, and it shows. The graphics engine is solid, but it isn't drop-dead gorgeous, like it would have been by the standards of a year or two ago. Many of the enemies you'll face look great, especially some of the larger ones. However, some of the character models look blocky, though the smooth animations and good-looking shadows make up for this. Likewise, some of the game's environments don't look as good as others, particularly the caverns and catacombs, which are rather generic. There aren't that many types of environments overall, but the game's cities and especially its dense forests, where rays of sunlight cut through the canopy above, look excellent. In general, the 3D engine runs smoothly on midrange machines with fast graphics cards, though slower machines with less RAM and older graphics cards will experience some frame rate issues. "

Where did I say this o channeler of spirits?

Don't you think RPGs need to use the latest 3D technology?

These are VIDEO games! I have no clue how this is not obvious to people that VIDEO games ought to have better video when advances exist. Especially in the genre of AarPeeGees.

I thought this sentence meant you thought RPGs should have the best-available video technology. No?

 

[Broseph]

Shrek, the impression I get from this thread is that you are a 3Dfag who thinks 3D is inherently superior to 2D. It's not. There are good looking 3D games, and there are good looking 2D games. There are shitty looking 3D games, and there are shitty looking 2D games. Art direction is far more important. Furthermore, not having to wrestle with a developer's shitty camera view (NWN2; getting the camera at an acceptable angle was half of the gameplay) is always nice.

 

[Broseph]

I can't be bothered to read all the stupid shit you post.

 

[tuluse]

Obsidian is using a 3D engine, they're just populating it with 2D backgrounds

 

[Brayko]

I don't think that 2D is better than 3D it's just that with the rise of 3D shaders and whatnot there seems to be a decline of actual content and brilliant artistic vision. That in itself doesn't make 3D bad though, it's just how it's used. Sort of like how Republicans claim that guns aren't bad it's how people treat these tools that were designed to kill things, only the 3D vs 2D argument actually makes sense.

 

[Blaine]

I find that 2D (including "2.5D") is better for certain computer games, while 3D is better for others. Cockpit-based space simulators, arena shooters and so on require 3D graphics (or a sprite-based facsimile) to even be realized, for example, while many 4x games are perfectly well off with 2D graphics.

There have been both 2D and 3D computer games since at least the early 1980s. Neither format is inherently superior to the other except from the vantage point of personal opinion.

 

[suejak]

http://www.gamespot.com/neverwinter-nights/reviews/neverwinter-nights-review-2872002/


"However, with Neverwinter Nights, BioWare has finally put to rest its long-lasting Infinity engine seen in those games, opting instead for a fully 3D engine that lets you zoom and rotate your view to your liking. It also allows for some detailed, well-animated characters and good-looking environments. "

"Neverwinter Nights has been in development for years, and it shows. The graphics engine is solid, but it isn't drop-dead gorgeous, like it would have been by the standards of a year or two ago. Many of the enemies you'll face look great, especially some of the larger ones. However, some of the character models look blocky, though the smooth animations and good-looking shadows make up for this. Likewise, some of the game's environments don't look as good as others, particularly the caverns and catacombs, which are rather generic. There aren't that many types of environments overall, but the game's cities and especially its dense forests, where rays of sunlight cut through the canopy above, look excellent. In general, the 3D engine runs smoothly on midrange machines with fast graphics cards, though slower machines with less RAM and older graphics cards will experience some frame rate issues. "

This supports what I said about NWN reception.

Didn't you say, "When NWN came out NO ONE really complained loudly how poor the art was"? Maybe this is your English getting in the way, but actually, NWN was considered to have pretty good graphics. Not absolutely bleeding-edge, but good. No one really THOUGHT the art was "poor," which is why they didn't complain about it. It was just... 3D. Which in those days was all anybody wanted, at least from a marketing perspective.

It does not. You are essentially putting words in my mouth. Nice try.

Do you not recognize 2D as an art style? You seem to think 3D is the only acceptable choice, which is why I interpreted you as ignoring "art style" in favour of simply using the latest cutting-edge 3D technology.