Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

Self-Ejected

Excidium

P. banal
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
13,696
Location
Third World
It looks like every generic fantasy setting ever. I don't mean it in a bad way, it does what it sets out to do but I just I don't see what's so special about Eternity compared to other similar settings. The soul-powered magic fluff?
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
The stuff that seems interesting to me:

Each race appears to have multiple cultures. Generic fantasy usually uses race and culture synonymously.

Josh Sawyer's autistic level of attention to detail and verisimilitude. I feel pretty confident that everything in the game will make sense and be interconnected instead of a theme park ride.

The addition of guns, and probable appearance of more advanced technology than we usually see in fantasy.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,787
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
The question of genericness is easily muddled by excessive argumentation, and I think its negative connotations are exaggerated in the minds of some some. There are multiple definitions of "generic" that fit the context of computer games, and yes, I'm taking these from Merriam-Webster Online:

relating to or characteristic of a whole group or class

having no particularly distinctive quality or application

The first definition absolutely applies to Project: Eternity. As is the case with hundreds of games before it, P:E is clearly faux-medieval high fantasy and will feature races, monsters, items, architecture, backdrops, tropes, a pantheon of gods, and even game mechanics that have been done before in some form or another. In this sense, the game is definitely generic. A passing glance at a P:E screenshot or piece of concept art will immediately convey to the initiated what kind of game it is, generally speaking, and the similarities between it and others of its ilk should also be immediately apparent.

However, Obsidian are certainly taking these generic traditional elements and putting their own unique twists on them, in order to be as original as they possibly can within the constraints of medieval high fantasy. Yes, the magic system is designed differently, but unique magic systems in themselves are a fucking staple of high fantasy games. Arx Fatalis' rune-tracing system is a good example of this. The pantheon of gods and how it operates is fresh with an original backstory, but a pantheon of gods in some form is, again, extremely common in any fleshed-out high fantasy setting. The same applies to races, monsters and so on that are being given a twist.

So I'd say that Project: Eternity is absolutely generic in that it's quite characteristic of its class, although it does seem keen to distinguish itself with new ideas and twists on these generic elements. OF COURSE they're trying to distinguish themselves. And just being generic in some way doesn't mean that P:E will be a terrible game. Really now, the entire idea behind this project is to bring back the good old days of cRPGs. Baldur's Gate was generic as fuck, but most of us all loved it, even many of those who claim not to for extra Codex Edgy Points™.

A game can be generic while also distinguishing itself in important ways, and still being a good game. I think P:E is generic, but I pledged $250. However, games with more exotic or outlandish settings that depart from the norm significantly and are rarely seen can and should be distinguished from their traditional counterparts.
 
Unwanted

Cursed Beaver

Unwanted
Dumbfuck Queued
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
135
Blaine, I agree with your well written post.

relating to or characteristic of a whole group or class
By this definition then PE is generic. Albeit with a pretty big twist from the whole group/class.

But then wouldn't pretty much everything be generic?
Even Numenera, as a setting, in some way would be, because it's heavily based on the dying earth genre especially the book of the new sun

But in no-way should being generic, by this definition, be considered the easy way to go.

And the distinction between exotic/outlandish and generic should not amount to : ''fantastic/outlandish setting is more creative because it's more weird/different/original''.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,690
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Blaine The problem is that at this point the idea of "a generic setting but with a TWIST" is itself generic.

In the end, it's all about quality of the fine details, not the high concepts. That's what will distinguish Eternity's setting from the likes of Thedas.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium

P. banal
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
13,696
Location
Third World
Genericness is a thing of aesthetics and world setup. Check settings like Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Planescape for example. They're all D&D settings with all that entails, but they're damn distinct. Dark Sun is a brutal, dying world devastated by magic where everyone has developed psychic powers and people fight with gear most often made from organic materials; Ravenloft is a gothic horror dimension that consists of various linked domains floating in mist, each ruled by an evil mastermind under constant torture by unknown entities that kidnap people; Planescape is...Planescape.
 

Scruffy

Ex-janitor
Patron
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
18,150
Codex 2012 Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014
The only Generic thing here is some of the kinds of humanoid : dwarves, elves, humans... And it's only their appearance. And the fact that this is set in a pseudo medieval era

So, a good part of the settings is generic. Glad we agree.

So because it's a fantasy with elves and dwarves it's generic? Because it's ''medieval'' it's generic? Medieval is generic now? Uncultured plebians.

Let's see. Because it's done the same way that a million other things are done, is it generic? Well, gee, i wonder...


From what they've explained about their gods/mythology, it's a pretty orginal take, and a great departure from the overused allmighty pantheon.

As far as i remember, we know about 3 - 4 deities. And they are not original, they have their portfolio and belong to a pantheon, but correct me if i'm wrong.

The magic and the whole concept of souls is also a pretty original, and will allows for very interresting twist.
If you say so.

The artwork so far is appealing.
Sure. So, "doesn't look like shit" = original?




Their in-game screenshot was gorgeous, a bit outlandish and quite curious. It didn't felt over the top or overly ornamental. This isn't numenra where the fantastic setting allows them to mix random elements together. This felt like there was a lot of thoughts behind the design to make it feel wholly and coherent.


The characters aren't ornamented at the level of grotesque. Their equipment, gear and clothes is credible.
They will have coherent civilizations, with different level of devellopment, not just random technology/level of devellopment everywere.

There is magic, there are weird creatures, but the whole world feels authentic and convincing, from the character design, to the architecture, to the lore we've seen so far.

And no one has ever done that before.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,787
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
But then wouldn't pretty much everything be generic?

Yes, technically, and Numenera is a good example—but a key difference lies in quantity. Being one among a class of hundreds or even thousands (traditional high fantasy with various twists) is different than being one among dozens (science-fantasy hybrid setting with exotic backdrops, characters, concepts, backstory, et cetera).

And the distinction between exotic/outlandish and generic should not amount to : ''fantastic/outlandish setting is more creative because it's more weird/different/original''.

That's true. A weird/outlandish setting can still be banal-shit-boring and badly made.

Blaine The problem is that at this point the idea of "a generic setting but with a TWIST" is itself generic.


Well... yeah, but again, I think that's a natural function of the sheer quantity of medieval high fantasy out there. There are so many that even putting a twist on them is commonplace.
 

CappenVarra

phase-based phantasmist
Patron
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
2,912
Location
Ardamai
Josh Sawyer's autistic level of attention to detail and verisimilitude. I feel pretty confident that everything in the game will make sense and be interconnected instead of a theme park ride.
Yes, because his posts and reactions to verisimilitude-based objections to gamist nonsense like Grimoire Slam are a veritable triumph of verisimilitude-focused design in cRPGs.

Sorry, couldn't resist :P
 

Lancehead

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
1,550
Also, the one-way bottomless backpack. Sawyer even said he's not going to bother coming up with a lore related explanation for that. Sawyer I think is very willing to set aside verisimilitude if he thinks it serves the game mechanically.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,690
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
We're obviously talking about verisimilitude as far as pure setting details go, not gameplay mechanics.

Though I'm not sure if Sawyer is really anal about even that. He is detail-oriented, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's concerned with verisimilitude.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Verisimilitude was probably the wrong word. I really meant setting coherence. Like the rows and rows of crops in New Vegas.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,404
To me genericness is more a thing of simplistic human behaviour simulation. On generic fantasy, there is always the evil race, the good race, the characters do things because they are good or evil by nature and not because they have their own interests. The merchant is always a greedy bastard, the friendly king is always a good natured tolerant guy and the enemy king is always a horrible tyrant, necromancers are always pure sadistic evil. Lord of the Rings stuff like : people that do evil things do so because they are possesed by the ring, the human kingdoms love each other, live on peace and are ruled by wise good kings and all the evil is on Sauron that corrupts everything, there is no ambitious ,imoral hobbits trying to control the shire by themselves and etc.. New Vegas has this too, people tell you the crimes of the NCR but you only see the crimes of the Legion, always the most brutal and radical acts are from the legion. The problem with generic fantasy is always trying to offer an enemy that is easy to hate so the hero can slaughter them in the millions without feeling guilt about it. It is hard to be a hero if you are killing people that only disagree with you.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
People were only corrupted/possessed in LotR because of their own desire for power :rpgcodex:
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,404
There is no ambitious ,imoral hobbits...

The Sackville Bagginses say good afternoon.

And you should try reading the Silmarillion.

Also, join date.
I was talking about the Lord of the Rings, one of the two books actually finished by Tolkien and the merits of one book don't change the content of the other. Join date? Too weak, man, too weak, Jaesun is already the master of the join date. I would give you :0/5:. Are you a newfag like me or you are a oldfag with a new account?
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,759
:roll: This is not "graphics", but a color sketch on a black background. That's how those things look, and by the way nothing like the final result.
Just a color test people, you can move on...
Pretty sure it's a level.
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63491-update-46-how-proto-typical/page-4#entry1316140
The cave level is being developed for technical purposes (developing organic cavern levels) and is small in overall size. The level above it has two entrances (though in this dungeon they are relatively close) and can be explored non-linearly. In terms of labyrinthine layouts, we will generally avoid long dead-ends in favor of loops (small dead-end branches are fine).
http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...=17931&perpage=40&pagenumber=10#post413414471
Even the cave piece, which is another working concept, has been criticized for looking cartoonish. Environment artists know how to build rocks and generate rock textures. It's a waste of the concept artist's time to fully render out things like that, so we don't have them render to that level of detail unless it's really called for.
Obvs. it's not final. But it still looks better than Wasteland 2. :M
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,759
Yes, a sketch destined to test color and lightning for an entire level.
He said it's a level on multiple occasions. Even referring to it as "working concept" and I'm hopefully correctly guessing that "working concept" means "a concept that actually works" i.e. "though this level art is a concept piece that won't be used in the final game it works as an actual level would."

Also: today's the day! :bounce:
 

Cosmo

Arcane
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
1,388
Project: Eternity
There's no contradiction between the two, you ass. Art style shows that they mostly cared about color and lightning but of course it can work as a level since it has the final dimensions... :roll:
But then again maybe you just want the last word : in that case just tell me so that i stop wasting my time.
 

Gakkone

pretty cool guy eh
Patron
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
917
Location
schmocation
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom