Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Zed]

more like max 3 kilograms for a two-hander, max a kilogram for a one-hander.

SOURCE
http://www.thearma.org/essays/weights.htm
http://www.truefork.org/DragonPreservationSociety/Swordheavy.php

 

[Irenaeus]

The point is that wizards should more often cut themselves with swords than do any good with them.

 

[Rake]

Goddamn you are retarded, experiment playing something other than derivative CRPGs in your life

Not that PE is much different but goddamn

I see you can't grasp the concept of class-based.

If you want your mages to wield fucking great swords then choose the battle mage class you retard.

Except PE won't have prestige classes or subclasses. You start as a normal mage, and it's up to the player to make his mage a more battle-type through talents and abilities if he wants.

a 20 kg two-handed great sword

The fuck is this, Cloud's sword?

Yeah, 20 kg is too much. 5 or 6 kg is correct.

Still heavy as fuck with leverage.

Have you ever lifted a 5 kg object? It's nowhere as heavy as to be unmanageable like you imply. And if a person like you who sits all day can lift it, why should a mage that all day is runing in the wilderness and fights monsters can't?
You are assuming that a mage MUST HAVE your average 15 years old nerd's body composition.

 

[Excidium]

The point is that wizards should more often cut themselves with swords than do any good with them.

Bullshit. Wizards should have much better martial training than normal people because they can live for extended time and absorb knowledge and increase their phisical abilities through magical means.

 

[Irenaeus]

Sounds like some people are obsessed with Mary Sue wizards...

 

[Excidium]

They're better than wizards that can't use weapons because ARBITRARY RULES!!!! MUH BALANCE MUH D&D

 

[Infinitron]

FWIW, the lore says: http://eternity.gamepedia.com/Wizard

Wizards are often assumed to be masters of occult lore. While this certainly applies to their knowledge of spells, many wizards are so narrowly-focused that they are ignorant of outside culture and history. It is also not uncommon for wizards to delight as much in mechanical curiosities as rogues. Because their powers make them targets in battle, a surprising number of wizards are quite fit, even if they aren't particularly strong.[1]

 

[Irenaeus]

It's not "ARBITRARY RULES!!!", it's simply that they dedicate their time to studying and practicing magic, which is physically and mentally exhausting. Or is it?

 

[Irenaeus]

Ok, so we have ignorant and physically fit wizards. Who said that this world was generic?

 

[Grunker]

oh noes don't give me freedom of choice in character customization

 

[Excidium]

It's not "ARBITRARY RULES!!!", it's simply that they dedicate their time to studying and practicing magic, which is physically and mentally exhausting. Or is it?

Is it? Depends on the game. Even on D&D you have sorcerers for example, their magic is intuitive and not based around academic research. Or psionics, or warlocks...

Tell this guy he should be a fragile scholarly guy wearing only a dress because he can cast magic:

Spoiler

 

[Irenaeus]

Oh noes I have to choose if the character spent his youth studying magic or practicing swordplay​

 

[imweasel]

Goddamn you are retarded, experiment playing something other than derivative CRPGs in your life

Not that PE is much different but goddamn

I see you can't grasp the concept of class-based.

If you want your mages to wield fucking great swords then choose the battle mage class you retard.

Except PE won't have prestige classes or subclasses. You start as a normal mage, and it's up to the player to make his mage a more battle-type through talents and abilities if he wants.

So PE won't have more than the "core 4" classes? Oh wait, it will.

a 20 kg two-handed great sword

The fuck is this, Cloud's sword?

Yeah, 20 kg is too much. 5 or 6 kg is correct.

Still heavy as fuck with leverage.

Have you ever lifted a 5 kg object? It's nowhere as heavy as to be unmanageable like you imply. And if a person like you who sits all day can lift it, why should a mage that all day is runing in the wilderness and fights monsters can't?
You are assuming that a mage MUST HAVE your average 15 years old nerd's body constitution.

What? are you saying that I can't swing a two-handed great sword because I have the constituion of a....... mage? lol

Anyway, all you do is pick up the sword and don't have to swing it fight, right? Leverage is of course also not a problem.

 

[Rake]

It's not "ARBITRARY RULES!!!", it's simply that they dedicate their time to studying and practicing magic, which is physically and mentally exhausting. Or is it?

But still find time to clear dungeons and mountains, or travel on foot through forests... but no he can't lift a sword and "stick them with the pointy end"

 

[Jvegi]

Heavy weapons should have more restrictive strength requirements. In BG those restrictions cap at 14 for heaviest (15 pounds) two-handed swords, I think. You can't go too high with those, because if the average strength of grown man is 10, than a mage with 10str should be able to swing a single-handed sword a couple of times. But you could put some serious damage and chance to hit penalties, that depend on you str and weight of a weapon. In BG only at very low values (5 and under) do you get any penalties.
This way a mage could handle a heavy sword if he had invested some points into strenght, but unless he pumps it to a level of real warrior, he will always be better off with lighter weapons.

 

[Infinitron]

Ok, so we have ignorant and physically fit wizards. Who said that this world was generic?

D&D does that too (low wisdom, high intelligence)

 

[Irenaeus]

It's not "ARBITRARY RULES!!!", it's simply that they dedicate their time to studying and practicing magic, which is physically and mentally exhausting. Or is it?

But still find time to clear dungeons and mountains, or travel on foot through forests... but no he can't lift a sword and "stick them with the pointy end"

I dare say that there's more to swordfighting than lifting it and sticking the enemy with the pointy end, but I'm an amateur in the field.

 

[Delterius]

Oh noes I have to choose if the character spent his youth studying magic or practicing swordplay

That would be the case in a IE game, where character customization is mostly contained within your class - which stands for, in part, the character's history.

But in P:E's case, much character customization goes through skill choices. Meaning that the character hasn't spend his youth learning swordplay, but rather is choosing to learn one thing or another as times passes. Its building a character through development, which here happens through game mechanics. Can't understand why exactly a codexian would oppose this.

Besides, I just don't understand why RPG enthusiasts would keep class stereotypes so close to their hearts. Have we been playing the same genre? There are often more rules about creating a hybrid character than a pure physically inept wizard.

 

[Rake]

Goddamn you are retarded, experiment playing something other than derivative CRPGs in your life

Not that PE is much different but goddamn

I see you can't grasp the concept of class-based.

If you want your mages to wield fucking great swords then choose the battle mage class you retard.

Except PE won't have prestige classes or subclasses. You start as a normal mage, and it's up to the player to make his mage a more battle-type through talents and abilities if he wants.

So PE won't have more than the "core 4" classes? Oh wait, it will.

o_O

a 20 kg two-handed great sword

The fuck is this, Cloud's sword?

Yeah, 20 kg is too much. 5 or 6 kg is correct.

Still heavy as fuck with leverage.

Have you ever lifted a 5 kg object? It's nowhere as heavy as to be unmanageable like you imply. And if a person like you who sits all day can lift it, why should a mage that all day is runing in the wilderness and fights monsters can't?
You are assuming that a mage MUST HAVE your average 15 years old nerd's body constitution.

What? are you saying that I can't swing a two-handed great sword because I have the constituion of a....... mage? lol

Anyway, all you do is pick up the sword and don't have to swing it fight, right? Leverage is of course also not a problem.

Look, no one said that your mage, even with the best melee talent pick, will be equal to a fighter in one on one combat. But that's a far cry from not being able to touch a sword because MAGE

 

[Jvegi]

Have you ever lifted a 5 kg object? It's nowhere as heavy as to be unmanageable like you imply. And if a person like you who sits all day can lift it, why should a mage that all day is runing in the wilderness and fights monsters can't?
You are assuming that a mage MUST HAVE your average 15 years old nerd's body composition.

Lifting a 5 kg object is nothing. But try swinging it around if its 1,2 meters long, and we'll see how fit you are.

 

[Shadenuat]

Class restrictions suck, class restrictions don't suck, wizards should be able to lift swords cause Gandalf did.....
Nothing changes since D&D sessions at school

 

[Irenaeus]

Have you ever lifted a 5 kg object? It's nowhere as heavy as to be unmanageable like you imply. And if a person like you who sits all day can lift it, why should a mage that all day is runing in the wilderness and fights monsters can't?
You are assuming that a mage MUST HAVE your average 15 years old nerd's body composition.

Lifting a 5 kg object is nothing. But try swinging it around if its 1,2 meters long, and we'll see how fit you are.

And try not hitting your own body and leaving a large open wound.

 

[861129]

Lifting a 5 kg object is nothing. But try swinging it around if its 1,2 meters long, and we'll see how fit you are.

Yeah, 20 kg is too much. 5 or 6 kg is correct.

Still heavy as fuck with leverage.

No, since the blade is very thin, especially towards the point. The long handle on the very large 5-6 kg two-handers also gives the wielder good leverage to move the sword. A sword is not like a crowbar with the weight centered away from the hands.

 

[Jackalope]

I have this mental image of a fat mage who's dragging this giant sword... and I mean dragging. He's sweating and puffing and being pretty pissed about it. And I love it. Sure, he probably can't swing it around. Perhaps he'd loose an ear if he tries... But he should still be able to try.

 

[Jvegi]

Lifting a 5 kg object is nothing. But try swinging it around if its 1,2 meters long, and we'll see how fit you are.

Yeah, 20 kg is too much. 5 or 6 kg is correct.

Still heavy as fuck with leverage.

No, since the blade is very thin, especially towards the point. The long handle on the very large 5-6 kg two-handers also gives the wielder good leverage to move the sword. A sword is not like a crowbar with the weight centered away from the hands.

Sure, but there is only so much this stuff can do. Using such a sword has nothing to do with lifting 5 kg, or swinging a 5kg led ball. You do need some serious strength to use it at all, and to be effective you can't be a woos (or even of above average strength).
Hence:

Heavy weapons should have more restrictive strength requirements. In BG those restrictions cap at 14 for heaviest (15 pounds) two-handed swords, I think. You can't go too high with those, because if the average strength of grown man is 10, than a mage with 10str should be able to swing a single-handed sword a couple of times. But you could put some serious damage and chance to hit penalties, that depend on you str and weight of a weapon. In BG only at very low values (5 and under) do you get any penalties.
This way a mage could handle a heavy sword if he had invested some points into strenght, but unless he pumps it to a level of real warrior, he will always be better off with lighter weapons.

Also, does anybody here have any practical experience with using heavy meele weapons so he could tell us who is fucking wrong here?