Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[tuluse]

Oh noes I have to choose if the character spent his youth studying magic or practicing swordplay

That would be the case in a IE game, where character customization is mostly contained within your class - which stands for, in part, the character's history.

But in P:E's case, much character customization goes through skill choices. Meaning that the character hasn't spend his youth learning swordplay, but rather is choosing to learn one thing or another as times passes. Its building a character through development, which here happens through game mechanics. Can't understand why exactly a codexian would oppose this.

Besides, I just don't understand why RPG enthusiasts would keep class stereotypes so close to their hearts. Have we been playing the same genre? There are often more rules about creating a hybrid character than a pure physically inept wizard.

Because Josh Sawyer is the anti-christ so anything he does that isn't exactly the same as AD&D 2E is a terrible idea.

 

[Excidium]

Not for that reason but it usually is a terrible idea.

 

[communard]

Swords don't even weigh that much. Swords made for combat with a weight of more than 4 kg are quite rare. And two handed blades weighing as little as 1.5 kg aren't uncommon at all.

 

[Delterius]

Oh noes I have to choose if the character spent his youth studying magic or practicing swordplay

That would be the case in a IE game, where character customization is mostly contained within your class - which stands for, in part, the character's history.

But in P:E's case, much character customization goes through skill choices. Meaning that the character hasn't spend his youth learning swordplay, but rather is choosing to learn one thing or another as times passes. Its building a character through development, which here happens through game mechanics. Can't understand why exactly a codexian would oppose this.

Besides, I just don't understand why RPG enthusiasts would keep class stereotypes so close to their hearts. Have we been playing the same genre? There are often more rules about creating a hybrid character than a pure physically inept wizard.

Because Josh Sawyer is the anti-christ so anything he does that isn't exactly the same as AD&D 2E is a terrible idea.

Well, in that respect the AD&D games didn't exactly age well.

 

[Excidium]

Swords don't even weigh that much. Swords made for combat with a weight of more than 4 kg are quite rare. And two handed blades weighing as little as 1.5 kg aren't uncommon at all.

Indeed. How is that of any relevance anyawy, this is the game where you can carry an infinite amount of things

 

[tuluse]

Not for that reason but it usually is a terrible idea.

AD&D is a poor system with an excellent spell list and beastiary.

I'm pretty confident in Sawyer's ability to make a better system. Who knows if Obsidian can fill out a fun spell list or beastiary though. Their track record is mostly poor.

 

[Excidium]

AD&D is a p. good system for what it was. Better than what came after it at any rate.

 

[Starym]

I always found the "mages can't into melee" a little weird. I mean isn't the whole idea of magic that it can affect anything, so yea you can swing fireballs etc from a distance and not need to be physically fit, strong and practiced in melee that much, but you can also focus your study on only defensive magic and train with a weapon, because with enough protective spells you'll be much better in combat than a warrior with his armor (obv, this is from a lore/"logic" standpoint). That's one of the best features in D&D with its tons of spells (mostly post 2nd ed), that wizards are incredibly powerful and can basically be what they want - they could out fight fighters if they wanted to. Now, that isn't to say that wizards should be better than warrs in melee in PE, but there should be at least options to try - you might be weaker than a long range wiz but you're taking some pressure of the warrior and helping hold the frontline. I just hope they don't go too overboard with "balance" so that the melee wizard is just as effective/does just as much DPS as the ranged one... I'd actually be happier if it was simply wrong to play a melee wiz, from an efficiency standpoint, but you can still do it if you want, makes it fun to spike difficulty on your own terms too.

 

[Shadenuat]

Also, does anybody here have any practical experience with using heavy meele weapons so he could tell us who is fucking wrong here?

Anyone who trained half a year or a year can pick up any weapon and fight. But, um, let's try with an example. Let's say you are a wizard who decided to learn to defend himself in hand to hand, and you train in swordfighting two days a week, like I did in college. You will progress and be better than regular guy, but where you will win against some people, in a tournament, you will face real fanatics. These fanatics live that, they train every day, like for Olympics. They run in full equipment for hours at winter, they are sorta crazy and alpha, do not afraid of pain and have their brains somewhere else than you do. In the end, these sorts of people will beat you up and prevail, if not by perfected technique, but by shear strength and toughness.
This is why I accept abstractions of class systems - it's not that wizard can't grab a sword, he can, but it's pointless, because when facing real fighter, he'll face these sorts of fanatics of martial combat. Now there are things like fatigue, wounds, blood loss and possibility of weapon breaking, situations when training can come in handy, but these things rarely get into games.
Also, even in AD&D, any class can still hit any other class in combat - that's what natural 20 is for.

 

[tuluse]

Most soldiers and guards are not fanatics training 20 hours a day. Monsters and beasts are definitely not necessarily experts at fighting a guy with a sword.

Anyways, I'm 90% sure that a melee class will beat a wizard if all the wizard does is try to attack with a sword. So that follows your example just fine.

 

[hiver]

hey idiots...


You wont be able to level up all those different skills to the same level that a specialist can bring them. You wont be able to be great at sword fighting and magic at the same time.
You will be able only to mix and match... just like as if youre a multiclass or a dual class.

Thats all that matters. Not how much a real sword weighs or not.

This simply allows you to play a battle mage.
Which is my favorite character type, btw.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

because when facing real fighter, he'll face these sorts of fanatics of martial combat

And that's reflected in his -2 to hit vs the fighters +6, not in him putting down his sword and going "fk it I don't care". In any case he will also meet all kinds of things, including perhaps a feudal levy of peasants given a spear and told to run at him, who hates their fucking lives and only attack because they will be killed if they don't.

 

[Shadenuat]

Most soldiers and guards are not fanatics training 20 hours a day

Compared to some guy from academia who does't sleep for nights to learn to cast his first Magic Missile, they are.

feudal levy of peasants given a spear

When was the last time we fought something like that in RPG. It's all orcs, hundred old elves, supermutants, demonspawn, purebreed fighting races and whatever else, who should rip anyone but the toughest melee mutha to shreds given the reach.

 

[Irenaeus]

I would welcome a game where you play an evil knight trumping hordes of revolting peasants for your corrupt liege.

 

[hiver]

Most soldiers and guards are not fanatics training 20 hours a day

Compared to some guy from academia who does't sleep for nights to learn to cast his first Magic Missile, they are.

:leans over shadenaut shoulder and watches him scribble over a big paper:

And... :nibbles a carrot: ... from which -a which g..g..game is that character from, doc?

 

[Shadenuat]

I would welcome a game where you play an evil knight trumping hordes of revolting peasants for your corrupt liege.

Yes it would be refreshing, different groups with different levels of martial prowess and numbers, instead some sort of undead demonspawned ancient god in a form of lighting and acid breathing dragon or whatever.
dragonz

Hiver, it's just my opinion on how time consuming something like learning magic should be, and how would a person turn to be if one wants to continue to CLIMB THE LADDER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9gINFueof8

 

[communard]

I would welcome a game where you play an evil knight trumping hordes of revolting peasants for your corrupt liege.

I'd prefer to play as the revolting peasant. Giving some aristo cunt the misericorde after you knock him down from his faggoty horse would be just lovely.

 

[Jackalope]

WHAAA? Next you'd be saying you don't want to fight mutant rats and giant spiders.

 

[Shadenuat]

I will fight rats for Matt


Not spiders. Fuck them. And I'm not going to collect their poison glands for a village alchemist.

 

[Rake]

it's just my opinion on how time consuming something like learning magic should be, and how would a person turn to be if one wants to continue to CLIMB THE LADDER

Well, that's kind of irrelevant since in RPGs never happens that way. Your character spents his time adventuring and learns magic while killing things. I would love to play a game located only inside an academia where magic is big deal and you have to actually research and experiment to learn your spells, but PE won't be that kind of game.

 

[hiver]

Hiver, it's just my opinion on how time consuming something like learning magic should be, and how would a person turn to be if one wants to continue to CLIMB THE LADDER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9gINFueof8

Well, doc... it certainly doesnt have anything to do with the P:E.


c..c...catch my drift?

-
and dont fucking post me that stupid, hilariously blatant laughable shit to make a point. Its counterproductive.
besides, its not even about climbing the ladder, as those cheap shits think. its about getting the ladder up your arse, so it comes out of your throat.

and then you imagine youre climbing.
-


you never played a battle mage? or a fighter mage? never saw anything like it huh? its all little funny rheumatic, asthmatic, college dorm guys in robes in your head, eh?

 

[Excidium]

Well, doc... it certainly doesnt have anything to do with the P:E.

Sums up the last two pages

 

[Shadenuat]

Your character spents his time adventuring and learns magic while killing things

Not always (MCA writing and stuff), and not every mage specializes in killing things (control, buff, ect)

you never played a battle mage? or a fighter mage? never saw anything like it huh? its all little funny rheumatic, asthmatic, college dorm guys in robes in your head, eh?

People who play battle mages are boring bethesdatard munchkins who have no love for challenge and no sense of style
Real mages wear dresses-- er fuck I mean, robes. Robes.

Sums up the last two pages

And up to 400 pages before them, as well as obsidian forums with their pregnancy and romance topics, so what?
Whatever man, I'm going to play more IWD2 with teh real wizards, with hats. See ya.

 

[Excidium]

Not every Wizard is like a D&D wizard, in fact not even D&D wizards are like D&D wizards anymore

The end

 

[tuluse]

People who play battle mages are boring bethesdatard munchkins who have no love for challenge and no sense of style
Real mages wear dresses-- er fuck I mean, robes. Robes.

So don't take the feats that let you wield swords and wear armor? I'm failing to see a problem here.