Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Rake]

That's what made me hopeful when Obsidian announced PE. Engaging combat like in IE, a sense of grand adventure like in BG and an involving and well-written story like in PS:T. But I guess that chance is out of the window.

Curious. What exactly changed between the kickstarter and now?

 

[Athelas]

Roguey, those quotes are 5 years old. Someone's opinion can change a lot over 5 years, especially when they're constantly under threat from a stalker.

Characters that are not visually appealing. This doesn't mean characters that are attractive, but certainly that's part of it.

What does this even mean? Marketability of characters? I hope they weren't planning on competing with Bioware in the creepy waify department.

 

[Ninjerk]

That's what made me hopeful when Obsidian announced PE. Engaging combat like in IE, a sense of grand adventure like in BG and an involving and well-written story like in PS:T. But I guess that chance is out of the window.

Curious. What exactly changed between the kickstarter and now?

Fantasy met reality, and they had to fit into a 4 million dollar budget.

 

[Rake]

That's what made me hopeful when Obsidian announced PE. Engaging combat like in IE, a sense of grand adventure like in BG and an involving and well-written story like in PS:T. But I guess that chance is out of the window.

Curious. What exactly changed between the kickstarter and now?

Fantasy met reality, and they had to fit into a 4 million dollar budget.

I meant for him. He said he hoped for the perfect RPG and now that chance is thrown out of the window.What did he excpect and what changed?

 

[Infinitron]

880 pages of butthurt happened. Take your pick!

 

[Ninjerk]

That's what made me hopeful when Obsidian announced PE. Engaging combat like in IE, a sense of grand adventure like in BG and an involving and well-written story like in PS:T. But I guess that chance is out of the window.

Curious. What exactly changed between the kickstarter and now?

Fantasy met reality, and they had to fit into a 4 million dollar budget.

I meant for him. He said he hoped for the perfect RPG and now that chance is thrown out of the window.What did he excpect and what changed?

Oh, I see. For what it's worth I got hyped, too.

 

[Rake]

880 pages of butthurt happened. Take your pick!

Propably that's it. Reading the thread in one go would leave anyone disgusted of even the mention of PE.

 

[Grunker]

*throws up*

 

[Xeon]

This thread used to be a lot of fun. Alot of people used to show up arguing with each other and trolling. I really enjoyed lurking and reading the thread.

Now its mostly quotes, some arguments between people who for the most part know what they are talking about. The only really fun posts these days are Zed's and sometimes Roguey's but even Roguey's posts are getting tame because most people are already ignoring him/her.

 

[Ninjerk]

Then put your big boy pants on and troll.

 

[Sensuki]

There hasn't really been anything interesting to talk about for a while, since the Crafting thing.

 

[Jedi Exile]

Things will change after the next big update. Hopefully.

 

[SophosTheWise]

That's what made me hopeful when Obsidian announced PE. Engaging combat like in IE, a sense of grand adventure like in BG and an involving and well-written story like in PS:T. But I guess that chance is out of the window.

Curious. What exactly changed between the kickstarter and now?

Fantasy met reality, and they had to fit into a 4 million dollar budget.

Exactly that. Also I was left somewhat underwhelmed by most updates. Not that they were bad by any means but still they didn't do it for me. I found the artwork that was shown very tame, very generic, not really adventurous. Of coure I'm stupid that I believed they would turn things around when they basically announced a generic RPG. But nevertheless I was hopeful.
There's just not much exictement for me. But we'll see, maybe that changes.

I'm generally a guy that wishes for innovation or to say it without buzzwords: I'm looking for more stuff, new stuff, new approaches to fantasy and the ways they're designed. I think we can learn a lot from the past (obviously) but shouldn't disregard new achievments (such as the grab-button from Shadow of the Colossus/Dragon's Dogma). Well, now I'm rambling.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I missed couple hundred pages. Did Josh Sawyer already end fun or is he still struggling?

 

[Athelas]

To be honest, I was pretty disappointed to hear Project Eternity would feature the usual Tolkien rip-offs. But most everything after that has been great news.

 

[Xeon]

Ninjerk, I am a coward so even if I knew how to troll, I'll most likely would avoid it.

I would like to state that I don't hate the quotes or the discussions that happens from time to time, It is pretty informative. But it kinda feels I am in a lecture and need to take notes of every detail for my upcoming test or something. So a change of pace by Zed or Roguey or someone else kinda spice things up a bit. At least for me anyway.

 

[Duraframe300]

To be honest, I was pretty disappointed to hear Project Eternity would feature the usual Tolkien rip-offs. But most everything after that has been great news.

Eh, I don't really have the impression that they are just tolkien rip-offs or ever assumed so. For me it's a lot about execution in the end that proves what something will be rather than general concepts.

That said I share Sawyer's love for historical fiction, so I don't need my fantasy settings too wacky.

 

[Sensuki]

I thought the environment screenshot, the environment video and the dungeon screenshot were all pretty impressive.

 

[Rake]

Same here. The only thing i was kinda meh with was the traditional fantasy vibe. If it's misleading and the setting is more original than what we assume i will be happy. But i wanted a completely alien/wacky/sureal setting so PE's leaves me sceptical.

 

[SophosTheWise]

Same here. The only thing i was kinda meh with was the traditional fantasy vibe. If it's misleading and the setting is more original than what we assume i will be happy. But i wanted a completely alien/wacky/sureal setting so PE's leaves me sceptical.

What I love about the setting though, is that it's historically inspired. Not enough for me anyway. I'd love to see some Landsknechts and Raubritters.

 

[Athelas]

To be honest, I was pretty disappointed to hear Project Eternity would feature the usual Tolkien rip-offs. But most everything after that has been great news.

Eh, I don't really have the impression that they are just tolkien rip-offs or ever assumed so. For me it's a lot about execution in the end that proves what something will be rather than general concepts.

That said I share Sawyer's love for historical fiction, so I don't need my fantasy settings too wacky.

I like high fantasy, so I don't need it to be wacky. I just don't think high fantasy should always include things like elves, dwarves and halflings (Orlans are basically halflings with hairy ears instead of hairy feet). Tolkien used the races for specific purposes (i.e. the smallness and innocence of haflings provided a counterbalance to the ring's corrupting influence). Most every writer that uses elves, dwarves and the like however just seems to do it mindlessly, and it feels tacked on and unconvincing. It's rather telling that some of the most interesting fantasy works were written specifically as a counterpoint to Tolkien derivatives (low fantasy works like George R.R. Martin's, the Planescape setting, etc.).

But like I said, the updates have taken care of most of my doubts, and I expect the writing to be good.

 

[Duraframe300]

To be honest, I was pretty disappointed to hear Project Eternity would feature the usual Tolkien rip-offs. But most everything after that has been great news.

Eh, I don't really have the impression that they are just tolkien rip-offs or ever assumed so. For me it's a lot about execution in the end that proves what something will be rather than general concepts.

That said I share Sawyer's love for historical fiction, so I don't need my fantasy settings too wacky.

I like high fantasy, so I don't need it to be wacky. I just don't think high fantasy should always include things like elves, dwarves and halflings (Orlans are basically halflings with hairy ears instead of hairy feet). Tolkien used the races for specific purposes (i.e. the smallness and innocence of haflings provided a counterbalance to the ring's corrupting influence). Most every writer that uses elves, dwarves and the like however just seems to do it mindlessly, and it feels tacked on and unconvincing. It's rather telling that some of the most interesting fantasy works were written specifically as a counterpoint to Tolkien derivatives (low fantasy works like George R.R. Martin's, the Planescape setting, etc.).

But like I said, the updates have taken care of most of my doubts, and I expect the writing to be good.

Subversion was kinda the point from even before the very beginning though. They also used the *new twists on familiar concepts* angle/line.

There's a reason TORN jokes were made.

Ya'll worry about something that is not going to be the case anyway.

 

[Roguey]

Roguey, those quotes are 5 years old. Someone's opinion can change a lot over 5 years, especially when they're constantly under threat from a stalker.

Josh played Fallout when it was released. I doubt he's changed his mind about combat being one of its core elements. He hasn't become pro-grinding either. Also from that thread:

Players are incentivized to exploit every XP source to gain the most XP. Instead of performing actions because they are inherently enjoyable, they perform them to be as high level as they possibly can be. If the developers want to be "egalitarian", every source of XP has to be monitored, analyzed, charted, and continually balanced throughout the dev cycle. The only cases where I have seen this be successful are cases where "action" XP rewards are so infintessimal compared to quest XP that they are on the scale of a nickel vs. a $100 bill. I.e. the rewards are effectively "feel good" nods to sacred RPG conventions that are statistically irrelevant to advancement.

Player attachment to XP for kills is one of the most baffling phenomena of RPG traditions. It makes me wonder how people are able to play "non RPGs" where you don't get XP for killing things.

Fast-forward to 2013: "Josh is removing kill xp!"

Characters that are not visually appealing. This doesn't mean characters that are attractive, but certainly that's part of it.

What does this even mean? Marketability of characters? I hope they weren't planning on competing with Bioware in the creepy waify department.

"This doesn't mean characters that are attractive." He means characters that look iconic/visually great. I thought kotor2 and motb were mostly fine in this area, so I guess he was referring more to NWN2 OC.

 

[Infinitron]

I thought kotor2 and motb were mostly fine in this area, so I guess he was referring more to NWN2 OC.

Probably. It sure didn't hurt Oblivion, though!

 

[Lancehead]

Players are incentivized to exploit every XP source to gain the most XP. Instead of performing actions because they are inherently enjoyable, they perform them to be as high level as they possibly can be. If the developers want to be "egalitarian", every source of XP has to be monitored, analyzed, charted, and continually balanced throughout the dev cycle. The only cases where I have seen this be successful are cases where "action" XP rewards are so infintessimal compared to quest XP that they are on the scale of a nickel vs. a $100 bill. I.e. the rewards are effectively "feel good" nods to sacred RPG conventions that are statistically irrelevant to advancement.

Player attachment to XP for kills is one of the most baffling phenomena of RPG traditions. It makes me wonder how people are able to play "non RPGs" where you don't get XP for killing things.

Fast-forward to 2013: "Josh is removing kill xp!"

Do you have any quotes of Sawyer on use-based?