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Old/obscure/underrated JRPGs

zwanzig_zwoelf

Graverobber Foundation
Developer
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
3,170
Location
デゼニランド
But, I want to know if any of these games are good or at least interesting from a gameplay or "mechanics" perspective?
Illusion City is bretty good apart from...
an exploit that can net you infinite money if you start larping a dirty シュロモ.

Not the game per se, but god this late 80s/early 90s cover art style is marvelous...
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It also has very good music. Except you HAVE to listen to FM versions (I like PC-98 version the most, but MSX is pretty close to it -- softer sound by YM2413 suits a few tracks more than gritty sound of YM2203).

There's support for MT-32 but it's obvious that the music wasn't composed with it in mind, as contrary to the majority of western games the music sounds horrible on MT-32 apart from a few tracks.

Also if you get around to playing it, stay away from the MegaCD version -- it's a p shit port of the MSX version with fucked up music (apart from a few arrangements).



EDIT:
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Cosmo

Arcane
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
1,387
Project: Eternity
It also has very good music. Except you HAVE to listen to FM versions (I like PC-98 version the most, but MSX is pretty close to it -- softer sound by YM2413 suits a few tracks more than gritty sound of YM2203).

There's support for MT-32 but it's obvious that the music wasn't composed with it in mind, as contrary to the majority of western games the music sounds horrible on MT-32 apart from a few tracks.

Also if you get around to playing it, stay away from the MegaCD version -- it's a p shit port of the MSX version with fucked up music (apart from a few arrangements).



EDIT:
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Real nice...
The artist, btw is Yukio Kitta.
I find this particular kind of airy, dreamy 80s take on Art Nouveau somehow fascinating : a style without posterity, that seems at the same time still fresh and rooted in nostalgia...
 

abnaxus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
10,889
Location
Fiernes
Played Shinsetsu Samurai Spirits by SNK (1997).

274807-shinsetsu-samurai-spirits-bushidoretsuden-playstation-front-cover.jpg




There’s some animu based on this that nobody gave a feck about.

Game set in Edo period Wapan, p. cool setting & aesthetics ; there’s various main characters to play with but only their origin story is different.

You travel from Edo to Ise, Ise to Kyoto, Kyoto to Osaka and Osaka to Kyushu to stop the main villain who made a pact with the devil to destroy the shogunate.

The main villain is Amakusa Shirou, a historical figure who led a Christian rebellion against Tokugawa shogunate and got crushed.

Instead of hurr-durr-beat-the-evil actually Amakusa is saved and redeemed at the end, literally getting taken away to heaven.

Each character has unique combat techniques but they must be used economically in long dungeons. Some combat techniques can only be acquired by going off the path and explore a bit. Like in Suikoden, you don’t purchase new weapons but sharpen them at blacksmith’s.

Leveling is kinda similar to Suikoden, i.e. the higher level difference the more/less xp you get so there’s not really any grinding except maybe for shekels.

My only issue with the game was the combat being rather slow in the beginning even if you put it at maximum speed.

I suppose the game has some replayability as there are also various unique party members. Also the game has some amusing fake endings.

Game is also p. short*, I didn’t reach high enough level to learn all combat techniques and didn’t pick up a couple of secret ones.

*There are actually two main stories but I only played through one. Didn’t feel starting over from level 5 again for second story.

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Fred

Learned
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
128
Not that obscure, but Lunar 1 and 2 are not that known and they're both very good JRPGs, with a good story, ok mechanics and very good dialog. Basically every single random NPC has some interesting or funny thing to say which sometime launch a conversation (instead of just "Random town is north west"-type info), and often can be interacted several times. For some reason this makes the whole game feel very different than usual JRPGs.
The basic plot is a common chosen one story, but the twists and turns are good. Play the playstation versions instead of the sega CD. Seems they were PSP remakes, I have not played them but from screenshots I prefer the sprite artstyle of the PS1 version.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_ocOjwG480

Stay away from reviews, they spoil too much, especially reviews from the 2nd game spoils the first game.
 
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zwanzig_zwoelf

Graverobber Foundation
Developer
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
3,170
Location
デゼニランド
Play the playstation versions instead of the sega CD.
Disagree. Both versions are decent, but I liked Sega CD version more for its muted color palette, more elaborate dungeons and thus, better sense of adventure.

Playing both versions is like watching different editions of Blade Runner and the debate whether the Director's Cut or Final Cut is better can continue until the end of times.
 

Fred

Learned
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
128
Play the playstation versions instead of the sega CD.
Disagree. Both versions are decent, but I liked Sega CD version more for its muted color palette, more elaborate dungeons and thus, better sense of adventure.

Playing both versions is like watching different editions of Blade Runner and the debate whether the Director's Cut or Final Cut is better can continue until the end of times.
The Sega CD feels really retro tho, perhaps it's because I first played it on PS1 but I find the Sega version ugly. I'd say try both, it's a good game either way.
 

Ysaye

Arbiter
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
790
Location
Australia
A question to all - I was thinking about buying a retro console system and collecting old games and was wondering what people's opinions are about the best systems from an RPG (and a general) perspective?

I was originally thinking the NES (I was interested in some of the Ultima and Wizardry versions I haven't played, as well as other old favourite JRPGs) but obviously the SNES has as I can tell the best range of RPGs that can't be ignored. I was also thinking about the Sega Saturn with Shining Force 3 and Shining of the Holy Ark and also to finish the original Phantasy Star (although is the Saturn version in English?) and the latter Langrissers amongst some names (I played Der Langrisser and Fire Emblem 5 in Japanese so not entirely scared off where strategy RPGs are concerned...). And then there are other systems like the PC Engine (which has lots of the old Falcom games?), Neo-Geo etc. which I am not familiar with either but get mentioned a bit. Any thoughts?
 

Fred

Learned
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
128
A question to all - I was thinking about buying a retro console system and collecting old games and was wondering what people's opinions are about the best systems from an RPG (and a general) perspective?

I was originally thinking the NES (I was interested in some of the Ultima and Wizardry versions I haven't played, as well as other old favourite JRPGs) but obviously the SNES has as I can tell the best range of RPGs that can't be ignored. I was also thinking about the Sega Saturn with Shining Force 3 and Shining of the Holy Ark and also to finish the original Phantasy Star (although is the Saturn version in English?) and the latter Langrissers amongst some names (I played Der Langrisser and Fire Emblem 5 in Japanese so not entirely scared off where strategy RPGs are concerned...). And then there are other systems like the PC Engine (which has lots of the old Falcom games?), Neo-Geo etc. which I am not familiar with either but get mentioned a bit. Any thoughts?
Seems you want an actual machine, but even then it'll cost you a lot of money (some of those RPG sell for hundreds nowadays...).
I'd recommend emulation too (unless you have a lot of money), if you want a machine, build an emulation machine with a dedicated emulation OS and get all the RPGs from all the consoles ever in one machine.
There are so much RPGs on PS1 and PS2 it's inconceivable, a lot on SNES, some on NES, then all the Sega machines, then as you said the Nec PC Engine and Neo Geo and MSX2, it would be too hard to recommend a single system without it being a very personal biased choice.
 

Fred

Learned
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
128
Final Fantasy 8

The game is underrated, considering it gets a lot of hate and is better than FF7/9.
Answering to a 2013 post but yes, I think too that FF8 is underrated. The story is awful, the characters mostly suck, but I really like the system, even tho it's dumb too as they introduced level scaling (was it the first game to do that ? It was way before Oblivion popularized it at least) but the character power didn't come from levels but from junctions. So basically leveling is bad.

Little story time, with a friend during this period we would play all the PSX or PC RPGs released together during holidays, and we did for FF8. It's the only RPG we couldn't finish. After arriving in Esthar, we didn't know where to go or what to do, and walking outside the city we met Malboros who destroyed us with bad breath. We understood the junction system but not the refining/card mod, so despite playing cards a lot we didn't know that cards were the equivalent of levels.
But when you understand that basically the real story of the game is a protagonist going from place to place to play cards instead of that sorceress nonsense, it's a lot better. But that also break the game as you can get end game stats very early without any grinding (like by refining tents to junction curaga to your health and get 4000 HP at level 15 while everything hits you for 20).

In the end they made an awesome system (imo), but the game content isn't adapted to it at all, in fact it's even worse, it's like the content is made for a totally opposite system. Ho and also during the dream sequences you play some actually more enjoyable characters, which make it even worse. Despite all of that I still enjoy FF8 :D

PS : remembering those years makes me realize how crazy it was. Between 1998 and 2001 we had FF7 then FFT then Saga Frontier then Xenogears, Parasite Eve, FF8, Saga 2, Chrono Cross, Legend of Mana, Vagrant Story and FF9...all in that 2-3 years period. And then at the same time on PC we had all the classic RPG like BG, Fallout + stuff like starcraft and quake 3. Now I understand why we spent so much time playing RPGs, there was like one major RPG released every 2 or 3 months.
 

Fred

Learned
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
128
I think too that FF8 is underrated. The story is awful, the characters mostly suck

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Story is awful, characters suck. 90% is underrated. WAT.
Well I didn't check, yeah that would make FF8 not underrated :D A lot of people seem to like it. I guess it's like Chrono Cross, at release a lot of people hated it, but then no.
 

TheImplodingVoice

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
2,007
Location
Embelyon
Final Fantasy 8

The game is underrated, considering it gets a lot of hate and is better than FF7/9.
Answering to a 2013 post but yes, I think too that FF8 is underrated. The story is awful, the characters mostly suck, but I really like the system, even tho it's dumb too as they introduced level scaling (was it the first game to do that ? It was way before Oblivion popularized it at least) but the character power didn't come from levels but from junctions. So basically leveling is bad.

Little story time, with a friend during this period we would play all the PSX or PC RPGs released together during holidays, and we did for FF8. It's the only RPG we couldn't finish. After arriving in Esthar, we didn't know where to go or what to do, and walking outside the city we met Malboros who destroyed us with bad breath. We understood the junction system but not the refining/card mod, so despite playing cards a lot we didn't know that cards were the equivalent of levels.
But when you understand that basically the real story of the game is a protagonist going from place to place to play cards instead of that sorceress nonsense, it's a lot better. But that also break the game as you can get end game stats very early without any grinding (like by refining tents to junction curaga to your health and get 4000 HP at level 15 while everything hits you for 20).

In the end they made an awesome system (imo), but the game content isn't adapted to it at all, in fact it's even worse, it's like the content is made for a totally opposite system. Ho and also during the dream sequences you play some actually more enjoyable characters, which make it even worse. Despite all of that I still enjoy FF8 :D

PS : remembering those years makes me realize how crazy it was. Between 1998 and 2001 we had FF7 then FFT then Saga Frontier then Xenogears, Parasite Eve, FF8, Saga 2, Chrono Cross, Legend of Mana, Vagrant Story and FF9...all in that 2-3 years period. And then at the same time on PC we had all the classic RPG like BG, Fallout + stuff like starcraft and quake 3. Now I understand why we spent so much time playing RPGs, there was like one major RPG released every 2 or 3 months.
Squaresoft was really a force to be reckoned with back then
 

ghostdog

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
11,154
A question to all - I was thinking about buying a retro console system and collecting old games and was wondering what people's opinions are about the best systems from an RPG (and a general) perspective?

I was originally thinking the NES (I was interested in some of the Ultima and Wizardry versions I haven't played, as well as other old favourite JRPGs) but obviously the SNES has as I can tell the best range of RPGs that can't be ignored. I was also thinking about the Sega Saturn with Shining Force 3 and Shining of the Holy Ark and also to finish the original Phantasy Star (although is the Saturn version in English?) and the latter Langrissers amongst some names (I played Der Langrisser and Fire Emblem 5 in Japanese so not entirely scared off where strategy RPGs are concerned...). And then there are other systems like the PC Engine (which has lots of the old Falcom games?), Neo-Geo etc. which I am not familiar with either but get mentioned a bit. Any thoughts?
By the number and quality of RPG's I'd say SNES then NES and PS1. Although a lot of nes and snes jrpgs were never officially released outside japan.

The first Phantasy Star was for the sega master system/genesis, I don't think there is a Saturn version. Sega's consoles were pretty nice, but they had few rpg's compared to Nintendo.
 

LJ40

Cipher
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
657
Location
Wizardry/Ultima/Goldbox
Phantasy Star 1 (and 2) has a remake for the PS2 that has been fan translated. And the PS2 is already one of the best for RPGs, along with NES, SNES, and PSX.
 

abnaxus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
10,889
Location
Fiernes
Played Doukyuusei on PC98 (1992). Strictly speaking not rpg but relevant enough as it is a game by élf and a troo classic.

Game is on numerous other platforms: Sega Saturn, FM Towns, DOS, Windows, PC Engine, X68000).

There are a Kwarean fan translation (1996) and a Chink translation (2016).

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Well, the West got True Love instead of this which is unfortunate as this game is far superior. True Love of course was not a bad game, it’s understandable this never got picked up as it has a large amount of text while True Love is a p. short and simple game.

It’s a dating game with some exploration, adventure game/VN and time management elements. Sorta difficult to play without a guide if you want to “catch ‘em all”.

Like in YU-NO you can click on p. much every object and get an elaborate description.

Speaking of YU-NO, the protagonists are very similar (like the protagonist from True Love he lives alone). These kinds of VN protagonists are p. rare today, when the vast majority are pathetic wusses.

There are 14 girls total but you can only get 11 in one playthrough.

Best gurl* overall was Mai, then Ako, Satomi/Natsuko; there’s the option to cuck main character’s insufferable “best friend” and cuck an insufferable rich daddy’s boy.

Game has some p. good humour and some p. touching moments. Some of the music also very nice.

Really liked this game. Looking back it is best to just stick to three girls maximum instead of playing it like Pokémon.

Big expectations for Doukyuusei 2. I will not play Kakyuusei.

* though p. much all are likable once you go through some of their events

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Nostaljaded

Augur
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
377
Played Doukyuusei on PC98 (1992). Strictly speaking not rpg but relevant enough as it is a game by élf and a troo classic.
I have yet to find another eroge developer like élf's writing on their characters' expositions, especially for modern/current age settings. :negative:
(Fantasy-wise, IMO only Rance series fits the criteria and at most there's only 1 more game to look forward to, Rance 04 - a remake.)

Understand you are playing chronologically, do give a shout-out if you come across such a developer. :)
 

abnaxus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
10,889
Location
Fiernes
Played Doukyuusei 2 by élf for PC98 (1995).

Also on DOS, FM Towns, PC-FX, SNES, Sega Saturn, Playstation, Windows. Game has Kwarean and Chinese fan translations.

There are now 15 girls, trying to juggle more than three girls will drive one insane. One of the girls from first game makes a bonus appearance (but why would anyone want to cuck Doukyuusei 1 protagonist?).

Doukyuusei 1 took place at the end of Summer vacation, this time it’s during the last week of December, first week of January. However there is a long, linear prologue before that.

Like in the first game, main character has a male best friend who’s actually a bro this time around. There are now two male douchebag characters: another rich boy and a physics teacher with the retarded first name Shinkansen. Well, and an élf developer who transported himself into the game.

There’s even more text in this game than the first (more elaborate exposition and description), the girls get more development and events are more elaborate.

The first game was light-hearted fun, this game is more dramatic, more serious in comparison. Also not unimportantly the game simply lacks a super sexy girl like Natsuko was.

I don’t even know who best gurl is. The biker chick?

Overall I like the first game better.

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abnaxus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
10,889
Location
Fiernes
Played Ode to the Sunset Era (1996) by Tonkinhouse. Found this game only by chance.

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Game starts with an incredibly ugly 3D cutscene which leaves a very bad first impression. Why not simply use animu? It also looks like something that belongs on PC Engine rather than Playstation. However, the game is not bad at all.

Setting is interesting, it’s a world where song plays a central role, being the prime source of magic. Indeed, the main character is a bard who learns songs as the game progresses (you can even name your own songs).

Some party members are fixed and join/leave as story progresses, others are hired in guild.

Encounter rate is very high but escape is almost always possible.

Storywise the point of the game is to collect three parts of the titular ode and defeat the reawakened bad god.

Also for some reason the black-haired gurl on the game cover doesn’t appear in the game.

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On another note I also finished another élf game, Elle. The animu is garbage but I can see why the game got a remake. The game starts out not very interesting but the entire ending sequence is pure brilliance.

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abnaxus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
10,889
Location
Fiernes
Played Bastard!! - Utsuronaru Kamigami No Utsuwa by Seta Corporation for Playstation (1996).

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Setting is basically a mix of Hokuto no Ken and Rance (or a Shadowrun on steroids). The protagonist, Dark Schneider, is a 400 year old supremely powerful pervert wizard. Yet, he’s still henpecked by his main waifu.

A curiosity of this series is that many characters’ names are heavy metal inspired (e.g. a spearman called Angus Young, a “worm magic” user called Ba Thory, a fighter called Yngwie von Malmsteen, etc.). Not to mention D.S. has a spell called “Napalm Death”… and one party member has a spell called “Blind Guardian”.

The game starts out almost as visual novel but soon becomes a full-fledged dungeon crawler (first person exploration and turn-based combat). Interdastingly many enemies come straight out of D&D handbook.

Exploration is important as it’s the only way to gain new equipment. There are a lot of party members (basically all important manga characters) but recruiting some may be elusive (and to get the “best” ending you need to recruit all – but there’s also a “hidden” alignment meter). Like in Suikoden it’s fun experimenting with different party combinations to wreck the enemies – all party members need to be around level 40/41 to unlock all special attacks and unites but getting that far is kinda overkill.

D.S. doesn’t need to be in the party, his four generals can easily take over for him once they are recruited (although the last two come a bit late). D.S.’s magic is mainly fire aligned which is not always useful.

Party members will often join, leave and rejoin later. It also happens that you lose almost the entire party members at the beginning of a chapter and you need to find them again. Party members are likable, there are a lot of interactions and skits (and furthermore, some deeply serious, thought provoking moments). Overall my favourite party members were Arshes Nei (by far the most powerful), Gara, Kai and Shella. In the beginning of the game D.S. gets an orb containing his waifu’s soul (a very powerful cleric) that levels up along with him and offers healing and support spells. It functions as an extra party member.

There’s a striking moment during fourth chapter where two characters will come to blows and depending on choices they will both be killed, both be reconciled or one be killed.

In the first chapter the game can be challenging when D.S. doesn’t have a very diverse party yet. In particular the two back-to-back bosses at the end of the first chapter can be hard, especially if one didn’t happen to recruit some very useful party members with powerful abilities. End-of-chapter bosses are always one of D.S.’s brainwashed four generals followed by a scheming god (you get to kill quite a few gods in the game, which feels badass). Bosses in general don’t have absurd amounts of HP and with the right party combinations (there are some very powerful unite attacks) they can be beaten in few turns.

D.S. can usually do a lot of damage with his spells but in order to cast more powerful spells he needs to be next to one or more party members who lose a turn that way (although certain powerful characters like Arshes Nei can target the entire enemy area on their own). Initially resources are not that abundant and blowing all mana on random encounters is a bad idea - there's a vampire party member called Dai Amon with a drain ability to restore the party's HP and MP but recruiting him fukks up D.S.'s alignment if you want the "best" ending.

The final dungeon contains some incredibly powerful enemies but your party is already so awesome at that point they just cut through them like a knife through butter.

The game’s first person exploration combined with the soundtrack make the game rather gloomy and incredibly atmospheric – felt like playing a Wapanese Battlespire at times.

Story wise the game starts with D.S. (and all other characters) having lost their memory and finding themselves in unknown location.

The plot is p. ingenious, as the strange world the characters find themselves in turns out to be D.S.’s mind (every chapter takes place in a fragment of his mind); the ancient gods’ plot is to take over his power. At the end of the game D.S. can choose to merge with the bad guy instead of saving his waifu, which leads to a “bad” end (even though he then becomes so powerful he can conquer the entire universe) – of course the “normal/good” end is far superior as the way D.S. ultimately destroys the final boss is the ultimate badassery . Basically he had crucified the four previously defeated gods to coerce them into destroying their master (who had been using them as pawns) to escape from their agony.

P. great game tbh, as good as Slayers (also a first-person dungeon crawler) and Lodoss game. The game is also quite long.

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