Operencia: The Stolen Sun - turn-based blobber by Hungarian pinball devs

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Generally speaking:

Japanese blobber = mechanically complex and full of features and new mechanics.

Western blobber (except Grimoire) = usually goes for style over substance, and features very simplistic mechanics and limited exploration.

The western blobber generally features:

- less complex itemization
- less races or sub-races
- less classes or lesser class variety
- less statistics and less statistically-important gameplay
- less attributes and skills
- less levels, areas and maps
- less new mechanics

(for example Elminage introduced a fantastic crafting and enchantment system, and being able to recruit summons from the enemy pool in order to aid you in battle; they also introduced the ability of combining captured monsters in order to create new ones, and also introduced unique skills for the many different classes, unique skills for the different races and also a pool of generic skills that allow non-class related abilities and manuevers; among even more features that include multiple additions to the traditional spell systems like as well the introduction of special bosses inside dungeons that chase after you in real-time)

Anyone who isn't trying to troll can see that a game like Operencia, or the recent StarCrawlers, can't compete with the better japanese blobbers. To say that a game like this one is more evolved is laughable.

EDIT: Also I'm not trying to say that a japanese blobber is automatically good either, for example the most recent one I played Mary Skelter was absolute animu garbage that made me ashamed to have even played it. Of course there are many bad blobbers out of japan, it just so happens that there are also some great ones that are arguably genre-defining, that have no competition from the west, and these games don't get the respect they deserve because MUH CODEX KOOL CRED or flat-out untrue misconceptions like the shit Sinatar spouted.

yeah tend toa gree with you.
Elminage is awesome, espically since the art style is not animu kawai.
EO has garbage art, but fun combatfag and character progression.
mary skelter is total garbage.
tokyo abyss fells like EO lite to me.
stranger of sword city was p.. good, but quite a bit of animu.

have you tried caligula overdose aweigh? Your recommendations on blobbers tend to agree very nicely with my taste.

Tired of shills going BT4 and Coperencia is enjoyable 111!!!

 

[aweigh]

Caligula is on my list of games to try, though reviews seem very bad for it unfortunately. I had high hopes for it because it had original Persona 2 staff working on it.

On the topic of blobbers though, since you didn't mention it I recommend trying The Dark Spire. It's a great one. You can play it on Desmume emulator easily if you don't have a DS. Also be sure to check out the western-made Paper Sorcerer.

These two blobbers, The Dark Spire and Paper Sorcerer, are great examples of how to do both style AND substance, with both featuring really great art and music. Paper Sorcerer is also the most recent western blobber that I can think of that is also decent, so it's a good one to play if you want to see what the west can offer that is from this decade. It's more style over substance than The Dark Spire though, as TDS has much more meat to it.

(Many peeps here have The Dark Spire art as avatars for example).

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Caligula is on my list of games to try, though reviews seem very bad for it unfortunately. I had high hopes for it because it had original Persona 2 staff working on it.

On the topic of blobbers though, since you didn't mention it I recommend trying The Dark Spire. It's a great one. You can play it on Desmume emulator easily if you don't have a DS. Also be sure to check out the western-made Paper Sorcerer.

These two blobbers, The Dark Spire and Paper Sorcerer, are great examples of how to do both style AND substance, with both featuring really great art and music. Paper Sorcerer is also the most recent western blobber that I can think of that is also decent, so it's a good one to play if you want to see what the west can offer that is from this decade. It's more style over substance than The Dark Spire though, as TDS has much more meat to it.

(Many peeps here have The Dark Spire art as avatars for example).

Paper Sorcerer is the game that got me really into blobbers (well other than Wizardry 6-7 and World of Xeen). Its p. amazing more than sum of its parts blobber.
Yeah, Dark Spire for DS played that too way abck; but didn't finish as I lost 40+ hour save due to emulator shenanigans

 

[Darth Roxor]

Bros, tried this game and posted my thoughts on the news page. Re-posting here:

I "tried" this game. This game is shit don't bother.

Pros:
semi-decent Puzzles and a lot of them, if you into that. (may change later)

Cons:
Epic store
Over priced
Exploration is Real Time: enemies and you move in the map real time. In special zones (like underwater), hazard/resource meter (like oxygen) depletes/fills in real time. So not really a blobber
LONG animations. wtf is this shit.
Visual Art style is WoW shit. So the UE4 engine and crisp visuals mean nothing much.
Character progression is very simple. Only 6 active skill slots and 3 to 4 passive skill slots.
Fully voiced, with annoying amateurish voices for every damn line of dialogue/taunt.
max party of 4 people.
UI issues. if you keep the onscreen controls on, you cannot see the targeting reticule which makes interaction with environmental elements hell. Looks to em like it was phoned in at the last stage.


No wonder they shilled and went the Epic route; while it may look impressive to a popamoler; a semi-enthusiast of blobbers will notice all its deficiencies quite easily after playing for a bit.

No wonder weaboo kawaii desu desu blobbers are more hit with the market nowadays. For one they are real blobbers with Turn based exploration and combat. For another they have semi-decent to great combat and character progression.

I would rather take animu cancer of Etrian Odyssey on citra and play a real blobber, over this money-grab whose development effort clearly went into voice actors and (detailed) WoW stylized designs over actual gameplay and character progression.

Once my animu tolerance meter is overloaded I will play another run of RTwP buggy Kingmaker and stay away from this piece of shit.

your thoughts sound pretty damn retarded

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Bros, tried this game and posted my thoughts on the news page. Re-posting here:

I "tried" this game. This game is shit don't bother.

Pros:
semi-decent Puzzles and a lot of them, if you into that. (may change later)

Cons:
Epic store
Over priced
Exploration is Real Time: enemies and you move in the map real time. In special zones (like underwater), hazard/resource meter (like oxygen) depletes/fills in real time. So not really a blobber
LONG animations. wtf is this shit.
Visual Art style is WoW shit. So the UE4 engine and crisp visuals mean nothing much.
Character progression is very simple. Only 6 active skill slots and 3 to 4 passive skill slots.
Fully voiced, with annoying amateurish voices for every damn line of dialogue/taunt.
max party of 4 people.
UI issues. if you keep the onscreen controls on, you cannot see the targeting reticule which makes interaction with environmental elements hell. Looks to em like it was phoned in at the last stage.


No wonder they shilled and went the Epic route; while it may look impressive to a popamoler; a semi-enthusiast of blobbers will notice all its deficiencies quite easily after playing for a bit.

No wonder weaboo kawaii desu desu blobbers are more hit with the market nowadays. For one they are real blobbers with Turn based exploration and combat. For another they have semi-decent to great combat and character progression.

I would rather take animu cancer of Etrian Odyssey on citra and play a real blobber, over this money-grab whose development effort clearly went into voice actors and (detailed) WoW stylized designs over actual gameplay and character progression.

Once my animu tolerance meter is overloaded I will play another run of RTwP buggy Kingmaker and stay away from this piece of shit.

your thoughts sound pretty damn retarded

I sir, remember the days when your critique on PoE was so harsh and honest that the shill admins had to "reinvent" your reviews.
Now an even shittier game Dumpsterfire is "alright" according to you, and you have became part of the shill admin.
At least Sensuki wasn't broken. He was beaten, but his resolve remains unbroken.

 

[Darth Roxor]

your thoughts sound more damn retarded by the minute

 

[V_K]

Fallacy 1 - "They only have one dungeon like Wizardry 1" - Nearly all over the last ten years have multiple dungeons, sometimes linking one dungeon to another or other fancy approaches. The Dark Spire is the only one in fairly recent times that I can think of which is only one dungeon (maybe some of the PS1/2 Wizardries?), and even then it is still slightly different from Wizardry 1 in that it goes both directions (although only 1 floor in the opposite) from the ground level. It is fair to say that they often revolve around a hub and radiate out in different directions from that location, but not always. The original Phantasy Star actually had multiple dungeons on multiple worlds. Elminage introduces other elements like timed water areas as well, which adds a different take to the original Wizardry.

Who cares whether it's one dungeon or multiple if they all look and feel exactly the same - featureless bland corridors filled with the same random encounter at every two steps? Everything I've seen of Elminage or Sword City makes me cringe at how senseless and pointless exploration is in those games.

 

[J_C]

The thing that angers me about these mediocre "budget blobbers" from the West is that fans will play these and go, "FUCK THE GENRE IS DEAD" and completely ignore the great Wiz-clones from japan that have trickled out, like the Elminage games or The Dark Spire or Stranger of Sword City, etc.

Hah, the jokes on you, this game is not produced in the west.

 

[aweigh]

Yes, I know Operencia is western.

EDIT: OH You mean the new Experience Inc game, that it's western-produced?

 

[Infinitron]

So, you played this Darth Roxor?

 

[Darth Roxor]

not yet

 

[Ysaye]

Fallacy 1 - "They only have one dungeon like Wizardry 1" - Nearly all over the last ten years have multiple dungeons, sometimes linking one dungeon to another or other fancy approaches. The Dark Spire is the only one in fairly recent times that I can think of which is only one dungeon (maybe some of the PS1/2 Wizardries?), and even then it is still slightly different from Wizardry 1 in that it goes both directions (although only 1 floor in the opposite) from the ground level. It is fair to say that they often revolve around a hub and radiate out in different directions from that location, but not always. The original Phantasy Star actually had multiple dungeons on multiple worlds. Elminage introduces other elements like timed water areas as well, which adds a different take to the original Wizardry.

Who cares whether it's one dungeon or multiple if they all look and feel exactly the same - featureless bland corridors filled with the same random encounter at every two steps? Everything I've seen of Elminage or Sword City makes me cringe at how senseless and pointless exploration is in those games.

I agree with you that Sword City has a lot of repeat battles and you typically will see only 3 or 4 types of enemies in an area, but Elminage very quickly gives you a range of enemies, each with their different strengths and weakness (or much latter just strengths in general). I also agree that the reward for exploration does not feel as great in Sword City and the "farming areas" are not much fun. But in terms of aesthetics of the actual dungeon itself though, I liked Sword City going (in one direction) from the desert, to caverns that then goes to a buried ghost town then to an abyss and then to an iceworld. Or (in another direction) the light palace that descend into the deep waters. Or the forest into the deeper forest, or to the tree that leads to the path to the sky palace.

And having accepted the criticisms of Sword City, where in western turn based blobbers is exploration more rewarding? If you played the original Realms of Arkania say (which I think is a great set of games, especially Star Trail) you hit a lot of pointless battles over and over with little reward in terms of items (there are few magic or special items in this game) or experience. Wizardry 7 or 8? There is some interesting places but again not much reward for fighting battle after battle. TBH it is much more exciting gaining a rare item in Elminage in a deep part of a dungeon off a difficult risky opponent (often also after avoiding a chest trap) that can make a massive difference to your character.

Where are these great recent Western Blobbers? (Noting I too like Paper Sorcerer, although it is a bit linear) Is Operencia a great (or very good) game?

 

[V_K]

And having accepted the criticisms of Sword City, where in western turn based blobbers is exploration more rewarding? If you played the original Realms of Arkania say (which I think is a great set of games, especially Star Trail) you hit a lot of pointless battles over and over with little reward in terms of items (there are few magic or special items in this game) or experience. Wizardry 7 or 8? There is some interesting places but again not much reward for fighting battle after battle.

It's not about rewards, it's about pacing. In Star Trail, Bradley's Wizardries, Wizards&Warriors (that one particularly nails it) you have battles, puzzles, environmental hazards and non-combat encounters distributed in such a way that never gets monotonous. Japs on the other hand are just grind-grind-grind.

Where are these great recent Western Blobbers? (Noting I too like Paper Sorcerer, although it is a bit linear)

Lords of Xulima, with all the usual reservations.
I guess I have to give it to you - there are very few TB blobbers, recent or otherwise, that have both fun, creative maps and deep mechanics: Bradley's Wizardries, W&W, Dragon Wars - that's about it (unless we include "unpure" blobbers like RoA or Uukrul). But in an imperfect game, at least for me personally, maps have more weight. Case in point - I've enjoyed 7 Mages immensely despite it having barely any stats or equipment. But it did a great job of giving each map unique mechanics that affect both combats and puzzle solutions, which more than made up for the lack of number crunching.

 

[aweigh]

The problem with V_K is that hasn't actually played the games he talks about. Above he admitted he hasn't played Elminage or Stranger of Sword City for example, and I also know he hasn't ever played Wizardry, so how could he know anything about them? No use engaging with someone who blatantly lies just to push their own agenda.

 

[aweigh]

It's fine if you don't like something man, just don't make up shit.

 

[J_C]

Yes, I know Operencia is western.

EDIT: OH You mean the new Experience Inc game, that it's western-produced?

Sorry, there was typo. I mean it was NOT produced in the west, because it was created in good old post communist Hungary.

 

[V_K]

The problem with V_K is that hasn't actually played the games he talks about. Above he admitted he hasn't played Elminage or Stranger of Sword City for example, and I also know he hasn't ever played Wizardry, so how could he know anything about them? No use engaging with someone who blatantly lies just to push their own agenda.

 

[fantadomat]

And the thread was derailed in to aweigh 's jap fetish.....as expected. Mate you can't even see a fucking blobber without going on a bitch fit about how better the jap shit is. While the reality is that we haven't had a good open world blobber like MM games in a long long time. All the shit you people are prizing is still are mediocre dungeon crawlers that look the same. They all feel like replaying the "red dwarf mines" for 50th time. All the monster are look like a trial enemy sprite from RPG maker with some random name and stats.

 

[CryptRat]

It's fine if you don't like something man, just don't make up shit.

No, I agree with him.

The quests and secrets in Elminage Gothic have retarded hidden requirements and player involvement is generally limited to "retry", at best you need to figure out a bit how a maze works.

Anything directly exploration-related in Wasteland for example is more interesting to me, with open interactive environment involving skills, real puzzles and obstacles to pass with more than one way, the way your exploration is limited is well done, it's cool that you can just enter some location far away in the world and get killed from the start, you can engage in a bar fight with all the people there, the battles feel more well-thought than they do in Elminage Gothic. The overall layout feels more interesting to me. Then what about those strong monsters for example? In Wasteland an interesting encounter will block my way to an important part and I need to use some bombs and maybe to come back later, killing it is both fun and satisfying, while in Elminage Gothic it's just some lonely super hard boss in the middle of nowhere and either I just reload to get a critical hit (or successful dispell) or I just ignore it, it does not matter anyway. There are good fights in the game, packs of dragons, ninjas, or some rare boss battle but it's still a little of a shame.

Elminage Gothic has many qualities. Party creation is fun with a good range of classes and all the available EX-skills. Itemization feels good, managing your spell points is fun, and balance is good for a game which both is non-linear with easily 75% of the content being optional and hidden (I'm not talking about the post-credit part) and has a big power curve. Also the game is probably uselessly long but that does not change the fact that there is a lot of cool content. And then the mazes, with ice, pitfalls, are above average, they never completely feel like interesting unique dungeons to me but not like abstract mazes either, they are somewhere in between. However I still consider the exploration part nowhere near as close as in Dungeon Master or Wasteland. I totally agree that, compared with these games and only compared with these games, then most dungeons in Elminage Gothic are usellessly big empty dungeons with only random encounters and a too high encounter rate, what I disagree with is that Elminage Gothic would not be worth playing, its quality is still miles above most of what is coming in the west like in the east these days as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Reinhardt]

I say this game is popamole shit because even fantadomat can play it on default difficulty.

 

[CryptRat]

If a game does not challenge you in default difficulty then you're not the target audience and should not play it.

 

[fantadomat]

I say this game is popamole shit because even fantadomat can play it on default difficulty.

Where did that come from? Was that your woman,last night?

EDIT:Also there is no real difficulty setting,only preferences that don't affect the combat and damage.

 

[Reinhardt]

Also there is no real difficulty setting,only preferences that don't affect the combat and damage.

That's exacly what i mean.

 

[fantadomat]

Also there is no real difficulty setting,only preferences that don't affect the combat and damage.

That's exacly what i mean.

Sooooo a game is bad because i could play it?! LoL mate,too much larping as a german had rotten your brain.

 

[aweigh]

And the thread was derailed in to aweigh 's jap fetish.....as expected. Mate you can't even see a fucking blobber without going on a bitch fit about how better the jap shit is.

It's frustrating seeing people have to play stuff like this when they could be playing much better games, but don't because of arbitrary reasons. It breaks my heart. Any good samaritan would do the same thing.