Opinion: Deadfire has the best quest design of any CRPG

[Safav Hamon]

Then name an RPG with better quest design

Oh, that one's easy, and I'll even do you the favor of naming one from the same company: Fallout New Vegas.

More proof that Obsidian are the kings of quest design

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

And the Russians were like, "We're just gonna make a better game."

 

[Safav Hamon]

Not according to critic reviews, user reviews, sales numbers, completion rates, and basic logic.

Kingmaker is only popular because of the anti-Obsidian circlejerk, and a hipster bias towards low budget eurojank.

 

[Whiny-Butthurt-Liberal]

Even BasedMusk has to work +100 hour work-weeks!

Avon Hertz is an autistic corporate robot.

 

[aweigh]

PoE2's an alright game, but it ain't nothing compared to the true spiritual successor that is Kingmaker.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I mean, let's face it... Kingmaker makes you a Baron. A real Baron. You can tax people into the stone age and tell them to fuck off if they don't like it.

Deadfire has you be a pirate. Lol. Wow, cool. I get to be a trash mob. Thanks for the gripping experience, Josh Sawyer.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Once Obsidian adds turn-based mode in February, even codex hipsters will turn on Kingmaker.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Maybe Obsidian should look to turn-back time and not make two shitty CRPG games, AM I RIGHT? Give me my brofists.

 

[2house2fly]

I mean, let's face it... Kingmaker makes you a Baron. A real Baron. You can tax people into the stone age and tell them to fuck off if they don't like it.

Deadfire has you be a pirate. Lol. Wow, cool. I get to be a trash mob. Thanks for the gripping experience, Josh Sawyer.

You're not a real baron, you're a pretend baron in a video game. Actually, 44% of the people who've played the game aren't even that

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

You're not a real baron, you're a pretend baron in a video game.

That just means I can do inhuman things and get away with it. Kingmaker continues the ascension.

 

[2house2fly]

With regard to quest design complexity and the disdain with which the storycucks here treat it if they don't feel the writing is up to snuff, it's worth remembering the words of the great Eric Fenstermaker on this topic:

On New Vegas I worked on Beyond the Beef but I also did one of the vaults - Vault 11. Vault 11 was a relatively linear, exploration-based quest and probably had half a dozen bugs reported total during production. I probably spent triple or quadruple the amount of time I worked on Vault 11 working on Beyond the Beef. So much of it depended on nondeterministic systems (AI, scheduling, pathing...) that the whole thing was a nightmare to debug. And when the game came out, it was interesting to see that Vault 11 got a lot of public praise, but hardly anything was said about Beyond the Beef. I'm glad people like it now, but at the time it did teach me that there are many ways to make a memorable quest, and some are harder than others.

 

[Lord Andre]

Not according to critic reviews, user reviews, sales numbers, completion rates, and basic logic.

Kingmaker is only popular because of the anti-Obsidian circlejerk, and a hipster bias towards low budget eurojank.

Now that you mention it, Kingmaker also has an assault the fortress scenario with all the skill checks, c&c, foreshadowing, turning enemies to your side, different aproaches including climbing walls and assorted chicanery like poisoning enemy wine etc. Now that I think about it, it's way more complex than what you described. Heh, I guess Kingmaker really is objectively better.

 

[Safav Hamon]

You're not a real baron, you're a pretend baron in a video game. Actually, 44% of the people who've played the game aren't even that

Kingmaker's completion rates are so sad.

If not even 2% finish your game, there's something fundamentally wrong with it.

 

[Sentinel]

it's worth remembering the words of the great Eric Fenstermaker

I don't think so.

 

[Sentinel]

You're not a real baron, you're a pretend baron in a video game. Actually, 44% of the people who've played the game aren't even that

Kingmaker's completion rates are so sad.

If only 10% of players finish Chapter 3 and only 2% finish the game, there's something fundamentally wrong with it.

Pathfinder released with some pretty brutal difficulty and 0 tutorials when you encountered physical immune enemies pretty early on. It's also a 50+ hour game.
Pillars of Eternity 2 could be completed by A-clicking the ground on release, and it has 5 quests in its main crit path.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Lame excuse. Dark Souls is a 50+ hour game that isn't noob friendly, and the completion rate is 22 times greater than Kingmaker.

People quit Kingmaker because it's not fun, and finish Deadfire because it is. It's that simple.

 

[sser]

Should be noted that a lot of people played Pathfinder with a belt hooped around their neck and tied to the nearest doorknob. So there's actually two separate finishing rates and one is at 100%.

 

[Zeriel]

Opinion: OP has brain damage.

 

[Sentinel]

Lame excuse. Dark Souls is a 50+ hour game that isn't noob friendly, and the completion rate is 22 times greater than Kingmaker.

People quit Kingmaker because it's not fun, and finish Deadfire because it is. It's that simple.

yeah except dark souls is an action game that anyone can get past with coop
in pathfinder you'll probably end up rerolling since attributes actually matter.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Hilariously, I just checked Forgotten Sanctums total completion rate and it's already higher than Kingmaker's base game.

High level endgame DLC, and the hardest content of the entire series. Not even a month and more people beat it than Kingmaker.

 

[Zeriel]

Hilariously, I just checked Forgotten Sanctums total completion rate and it's already higher than Kingmaker's base game.

High level endgame DLC, and the hardest content of the entire series. Not even a month and more people beat it than Kingmaker.

You realize that means its not actually hard, right?

 

[Safav Hamon]

According to codexers it is. But it's also fun, unlike Kingmaker.

 

[2house2fly]

Pathfinder released with some pretty brutal difficulty and 0 tutorials when you encountered physical immune enemies pretty early on. It's also a 50+ hour game.
Pillars of Eternity 2 could be completed by A-clicking the ground on release, and it has 5 quests in its main crit path.

It's been out for three months. At some point the length of the critical path stops being a good excuse for why nobody is finishing it.

Hilariously, I just checked Forgotten Sanctums total completion rate and it's already higher than Kingmaker's base game.

No it isn't. Seeker Slayer Survivor has a higher completion rate, but the highest Forgotten Sanctum achievement is at 1.3%

 

[Lhynn]

You must be thinking of Baldurs Gate?

Im talking about the math side of things, the actual stats. Classes and the multiclassing is fine.
Tho still not praisworthy. Skilltrees are shit, tho these are short they are still there and are annoying to deal with.

Other than that its largely standard for RPGs nowadays. The only thing worth mentioning is the multiclassing, which was done well.

You keep trying to pass that as a good example. Do you know what i see when i see that? i see this:

The whole "stats" part of the game is beyond fucked and has been since poe1 release.

The upgrading item part was a little fun and unique twist tho, hopefully well see more of that in future games. It actually encouraged the player to go outthere and explore, while at the same time bringing the best part of crafting to the table.

 

[Lord Andre]

With regard to quest design complexity and the disdain with which the storycucks here treat it if they don't feel the writing is up to snuff, it's worth remembering the words of the great Eric Fenstermaker on this topic:

On New Vegas I worked on Beyond the Beef but I also did one of the vaults - Vault 11. Vault 11 was a relatively linear, exploration-based quest and probably had half a dozen bugs reported total during production. I probably spent triple or quadruple the amount of time I worked on Vault 11 working on Beyond the Beef. So much of it depended on nondeterministic systems (AI, scheduling, pathing...) that the whole thing was a nightmare to debug. And when the game came out, it was interesting to see that Vault 11 got a lot of public praise, but hardly anything was said about Beyond the Beef. I'm glad people like it now, but at the time it did teach me that there are many ways to make a memorable quest, and some are harder than others.

Wow, it's almost as if complexity doesn't necessarily equal interesting or fun. Who could have foreseen such madness?

Back to the example at hand though, the quest design isn't complex, it's complicated. There's a diference. Complex is when you have a couple of interdependent systems and a small change in one system sends consequences through all the others which in turn create more consequences and so on. Predictability thus is hard and the best move out of all posible ones is hard to identify.

Complicated means that the designer is giving you the runarounds. There is only one system besides the combat loop and it's called "you must be this tall to ride". The desired outcome is always obtained by passing the check. Pass good, fail bad. That's it. Just because the mechanic is copy-pasted a fuckton of times and strung together with increasingly non-sensical reasons does not make it complex. Because there's nothing to think about. You always want to pass the check. There's no decision making involved. You either have the number or you don't and having it is always better. The string of checks might become so long it can be considered complicated but it will never be complex.