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Morblot

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Somebody still cares about BFRPG? It was so goddamn dull I didn't even remember ever owning it before now.
 

Bara

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Huh Goodman Games is finally doing a book dedicated to monsters only in February



I've always wondered why they never made a monster manual of a sort yet.

Also be a pair of exclusive monsters to kickstarter backers. I really hate when ttrpg kickstarters do that but least its not as bad as Dying Earth having a whole second box worth of content be exclusive.
 

Alex

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Probably everyone already know about that, but bundle of holding are doing an advanced adventure bundle that's worth of the price tag https://bundleofholding.com/presents/AAMega it's more than 40 modules for adnd (osric) Some good stuff in there.
Note that 10% of what you pay will be given to an organisation called "Direct Relief", which is working to increase COVID "vaccine" access. Worse yet, they also provide contraceptives and have even given funds to planned parenthood.

My personal opinion is that these bundle sites always pick the worst "charities" to contribute, to the point that piracy is less evil than giving them money.
 

Bara

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Not on facebook so gota parrot out what this copy paste without sources on reddit said

Apparently Labyrinth Lord 2e is going the opposite direction now and dropping the idea of being a clone

"One of the things I said a few months back is that Labyrinth Lord doesn't need to be a clone anymore. The situation is different than in 2007. There are many clones. There's no need to preserve the old rules.

Labyrinth Lord's path ahead is expanding beyond being a clone. To offer an interpretation that is more of myself, not constrained by someone else's canon.

The OGL issue that's been on all of our minds has made that vision clearer. I'll be releasing 2e as a stand alone game, not connected to the OGL. Since I wanted more breathing room for LL anyway, this has benefited the project. It will be a game to play or take ideas from for other B/X games.

Labyrinth Lord 2e will have procedure and rule differences, new and/or completely reworked spells, and totally different presentation of monsters. Those that overlap B/X are mostly rewritten to be closer to their folk origins, sometimes deviating in my own way. All magic items, with some exceptions, are completely replaced in 2e.

Character classes are similar to B/X, with some notable differences. Clerics are removed, their spells were replaced or reworked and folded into all of the spells. Some spells didn't make the cut, so don't have analogs. So the new classes are brownies, elf-like people that average 4' to 4.5' tall, who combine elements of spell casters and thieves. And cyclops, large people with one eye. Very tough fighters, kind of filling a barbarian role. The other classes are intact, if tweaked.

I've now finished writing and reworking analogs of all spells from LL and AEC. This number of spells opens the possibility of specialist mages.

My goal when you read Labyrinth Lord 2e is to make you feel like you're rediscovering the game. Monsters don't do what you expect them to. Spells are familiar but different. Magic items are different and have a different personality. Classes are similar but you have some more options.

Now I continue to edit and rewrite the rules. I will probably add some more magic items and monsters, maybe a few spells. I'm hoping to have a playtest draft ready in February. I don't want to rush that, especially because this is more than just a revision. So odds are we're looking at a Q2 release."
Probably for the best that original 2e draft was boring and I just don't see the point of more clones at this point.

He's not going to win anyone over trying to be a truer clone of B/X like OSE.
 

Bara

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Welp next Without Number kickstarter is up already funded


I wonder if he'll do a cuthulu based game next and call it Horrors Without Number
 

ERYFKRAD

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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Welp next Without Number kickstarter is up already funded


I wonder if he'll do a cuthulu based game next and call it Horrors Without Number

Maybe he should do a mathematician rpg next and call it Numbers without Number.
 

Bara

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Dolmenwood Kickstarter delayed to middle of this year and to be its "own system" but compatible and another version of OSE to be released with work starting on a creative commons version using the 5e SRD as its base in 2024.

Dolmenwood Developments​

February 15, 2023

It's been a very hectic last month, with leaked documents indicating Wizards of the Coast's intent to "deauthorize" the Open Game License, massive public outcry, and then their surprise release of the D&D 5e SRD under an ultra-permissive Creative Commons licence.
The aftermath of these events is still playing out, but like many other publishers, we were forced to reassess our plans and priorities. We considered a lot of contingency plans for a lot of different possible scenarios. In the end, many of the contingency plans proved unnecessary. But one very important one has stuck.
We’ve decided to publish Dolmenwood as a standalone game, rather than as a supplement requiring a separate core rules book (e.g. the Old-School Essentials rules).

Dolmenwood as a Standalone Game​

First up, let’s look at what it means for Dolmenwood to be published as a standalone game:
  • The Dolmenwood Player’s Book will be expanded by about 80 pages (to around 200 pages total), and will include the core game rules, all character classes, and complete spell and equipment lists.
  • The Dolmenwood Campaign Book will be expanded by about 40 pages (to around 450 pages total), and will include full referee guidance and a chapter of all-new Dolmenwood magic items.
  • The Dolmenwood Monster Book will be expanded by about 50 pages (to around 150 pages total), and will include around 60 additional monsters.

Benefits​

While the concept of publishing Dolmenwood as a standalone game first emerged during the “sky is falling in” OGL panic, there are some really major benefits to the idea that made us stick with it.
Flavour: The most exciting benefit for fans of Dolmenwood is that this gives us the freedom to make Dolmenwood more Dolmenwood. Many of the spells, magic items, monsters, and so on will be tailored to the unique flavour of the setting, rather than simply reproducing already familiar material. Also, during the development of Dolmenwood, quite a few ideas were dropped or side-lined because they didn’t fit well with the OSE core rules. Some of these ideas are now being brought back. A good example is the distinction between magic weapons of arcane, fairy, or holy origin, which doesn’t exist in OSE but which plays an important role in Dolmenwood.
Accessibility: Publishing the setting as a complete game (rather than also requiring a separate book of rules) makes it accessible to a far wider audience, including people who don’t already have Old-School Essentials and perhaps have never dipped their toes into old-school gaming before. We’re really excited about this, as we want the fantastic world of Dolmenwood to reach as many players as possible and to hopefully be a great introduction to old-school RPGs.
Timeline: As announced in our previous blog post on the OGL topic, we’ve decided to create a revised, non-OGL edition of Old-School Essentials. Publishing Dolmenwood as a standalone game means that rather than delaying Dolmenwood until the revised OSE is published (which would entail a long wait), we can continue and publish the setting with only a small delay.


How Does This Affect the Timeline?​

A little bit, but nothing major. We had planned to launch the Kickstarter for Dolmenwood in March 2023. We’re now pushing the Kickstarter date back a few months, to around June / July 2023.

What Will the Dolmenwood Rules Look Like?​

Our aim is for the Dolmenwood rules to be comfortably familiar to old-school players, while being accessible to those new to old-school gaming. The general approach we’re taking is:
  • Maintaining strong core rules compatibility with Old-School Essentials and the broader old-school games ecosystem.
  • Streamlining some game mechanics and improving the clarity and consistency of the rules, making the game easier to learn.
  • Building in more guidance for beginners, with a focus on introducing the old-school play style.

How Does This Affect the Revised, Non-OGL OSE?​

Now that the pressure from Wizards of the Coast seems to be off, we plan to continue printing and selling OSE in its current form (under the OGL) for the time being. Then, once Dolmenwood is finished, work will start on the revised, non-OGL version of OSE (perhaps in 2024).
As things currently stand, we’re envisaging basing the revised version of Old-School Essentials on the 5e SRD that’s now released under Creative Commons (rather than on the OGL-released 3e SRD). This will likely require reworking some game elements that aren’t present in the 5e SRD.
It’s possible that some of the new Dolmenwood material may make its way into the revised version of OSE, but that’s something we’ll assess a bit further down the road.
We’re excited to share more news and updates on Dolmenwood as work continues!

I've seen this being posted around around with it being stated this is a summary of some of the changes he's shared with his Patreons
  • different names for the saving throws
  • monster HD is called Level
  • descending Armour is gone, attack bonuses are in
  • All magic weapons are +2, but have more interesting varied natures
  • Treasure Tables are renamed and probably reworked
Not in the patreon so can't confirm anything.

If true I don't get the point of changing monster HD to "Level" now. Even saw some where that he was replacing Save vs Death/Posion with Save vs "Doom"
The term Hit Dice is still in the 5E SRD not for the monsters sure but for the classes yes. That just seems a bit too overcautious if true.

Lack of Thac0 and renaming the treasure tables is going to make plugging together multiple things require conversions and will be a little tedious.

Honestly kinda grateful that OSRIC is keeping their wits about them and not rewriting everything in a attempt to get out of the OGL.
So much so that word was they said if wotc ever tried to stop them from selling OSRIC or take down the PDF they were welcome to sue them.

Also, Gavin's sold OSE in so many versions now if he rewrites and releases a new CC version I do really wonder if people are going to go for it.
Or even back funding the books as much as last time as felt like the core selling point of OSE is "this is exactly like B/X just reformatted."

Would people really be down for a Creative Commons OSE that has less content as they won't use any of the Open Game Content from the OGL?
Also seems to highlight that he intends to rename a bunch of things if he's even changing saving throws and having different level brackets in places like the early days.
 

Bara

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More news just now

Dolmenwood Core Rules​

February 16, 2023

Following yesterday's announcement about Dolmenwood being a standalone game, I wanted to give some more details about what that looks like from a rules standpoint, compared with B/X / OSE. The reason for each change is explained below, the overall aims being:
  1. To streamline presentation and make the game easier for newcomers to pick up.
  2. To maintain compatibility with OSE and other old-school games.
Caveat: Everything written here is provisional / work in progress.

Core Rules: Mechanical Changes​

Just one. Removing descending Armour Class / THAC0 / the attack matrix.
Reason: Ascending AC is a bit easier for complete newcomers to understand, is much easier to explain, and is already familiar to the vast majority of gamers (via D&D 3, 4, 5 and their associated ecosystems). The standard OSE dual format ("AC 8 [11]") looks arcane and confusing for new players.

Core Rules: Presentation Changes​

Adventuring Skills​

There are a bunch of X-in-6 based skills common to all character classes hidden away in B/X (e.g. listening at doors, searching for traps, the surprise roll, etc). Dolmenwood will present these as a skill system, rather than as ad hoc rolls. There will be 4 skills: Listen, Search, Stealth, Survival. The underlying mechanic for these checks remains the same (i.e. X-in-6 chance of success, with certain races / classes getting an improved chance of success).
Reason: Explaining this "hidden skills system" explicitly makes it easier to understand and apply.

Saving Throw Categories​

Dolmenwood will use slightly different names for the 5 save categories: Doom, Ray, Hold, Blast, Spell. The mechanic for rolling saves remains the same.
  • Doom: Effects that instantly kill or inflict ongoing physical malignities—for example, poison, disease, death magic.
  • Ray: Rapidly moving, directional effects that can be dodged—for example, energy rays, magic wands.
  • Hold: Effects that hinder or prevent movement—for example, paralysis, petrification, falling rocks that may crush or pin characters.
  • Blast: Lethal energy effects that fill a wide area—for example, wyrm breath, explosions.
  • Spell: Potent, directly targeted effects—for example, arcane or holy spells, fairy glamours, magic staves or scrolls.
Reason: This makes the save categories more broadly applicable (e.g. Ray instead of Magic Wand, Blast instead of Breath Attack), which makes them easier to understand and apply.

Movement Rates​

Are noted in a simplified format: "Speed 40", rather than "MR 120' (40')"
Reason: Exploration speed (the "120'" in the example) rarely matters for monsters. It's just noise to include it in all stat blocks.

Hit Dice​

Monster Hit Dice are being reframed as monster Level (to match PC level).
Reason: Hit Dice is an odd term that means pretty much the same as another term that already exists: level. Melding the two terms makes the game easier to understand.

Character Creation: Changes​

Separate Race + Class​

Only the race + class character creation method will be presented. Note that the method of character creation doesn't affect the core game rules in any way. A race-as-class Halfling created using the B/X rules can adventure alongside a race + class Grimalkin Hunter without issue.
Reason: OSE presents two methods of character creation: one based on B/X, the other based on AD&D. The two different methods make sense to people versed in D&D history, but are a really common point of confusion for newcomers. Zoning in on just a single method makes the game much easier to understand. The vast majority of players are already familiar with the race + class option, making it the obvious choice.

Standard Classes​

Dolmenwood will include the standard cleric, fighter, thief, and magic-user classes. (In addition to the following Dolmenwood-specific classes: friar, hunter, knight, minstrel, sorcerer. A total of 9 classes.) Each of the standard classes will have some minor tweaks, tying it in with the setting and/or adding some common house rules. As noted above for races, a standard B/X thief will be able to adventure alongside a Dolmenwood thief without issue, should players wish.
  • Cleric: Can use any type of weapon, but only holy magic weapons. Chooses to be a member of one of 3 Dolmenwood holy orders, each granting a small class ability.
  • Fighter: Gain a combat talent at levels 1, 5, and 10.
  • Magic-user: Use the AD&D style spell book rules (see OSE Advanced Fantasy). Roll or choose from a list of starting spell books. Gain detect magic as an X-in-6 class skill (each attempt takes 1 turn).
  • Thief: Use X-in-6 skills across the board, unified with the general adventuring skills framework. Optional point buy system for skill improvement.
Reason: Cleaning things up a bit, better tying things in with the setting, and adding a few extra abilities to classes that are commonly house ruled.

Referee-Facing Stuff​

Monster #Appearing​

Will be listed in a simplified format. (The exact format isn't yet finalised.)
Reason: The B/X #Appearing format is very weird and confusing.

Treasure Types​

These will be replaced by a new system of letter codes and treasure tables separately listing Coins, Riches (gems, jewellery, art objects), and Magic. Each list will be sorted in order of average value, making it easy to choose a treasure type by looking down the list. (There'll be a 1:1 conversion guide from the B/X treasure types, for those who need it.)
Reason: The B/X treasure types don't follow any kind of pattern, making them difficult to understand and use.

Monster Tags​

Monsters will be listed with "tags" noting their size (small, medium, large), creature type (fairy, undead, animal, etc), and intelligence (mindless, animal, low, etc).
Reason: This simple addition clarifies a lot of other rules, for example which monsters count as "larger than human-sized" for the sake of small characters gaining an AC bonus.

Equipment​

There'll be a bunch of tiny changes and additions here and there, such as:
  • Slow weapons: Removing this rule as virtually no one uses it.
  • Rations: Stating how long rations of each type remain fresh.
  • Crossbows: Making them armour piercing (+2 to attack vs metal armour), to counteract their Reload downside.
  • Battle axes: Now one-handed.
  • Silver: Specifying the cost of making silver weapons of any kind (i.e. not just daggers and arrows).
Reason: Adding useful little details, clearing up minor rules.

Old-School Essentials​

Just to reiterate from yesterday's post: our intent with OSE is as follows:
  • Continue reprinting and publishing the game in its current form.
  • At some point in the future (perhaps 2024?) start work on a revised, non-OGL version. (Despite WOTC's current stance on the OGL v1.0a remaining in place, we feel the best approach in the long run is to move away from it, to avoid potential future rug-pulling attempts.)
  • Whether any of the changes listed above for Dolmenwood may appear in a future revised OSE is as yet undecided.
:decline:


This, is just bad. Like damn he's gutting race-as-class, survival and search skills, monsters having hit dice is to complicated so changing it to levels.

And this stuff might end up being Old-School Essentials 2e.

Welp back to swords and wizardry or just the red and blue books I suppose.

I guess if nothing else OSE will not be synonymous or a stand it for B/X anymore.
I never liked that when people were just talking about B/X they'd keep calling it OSE.
 

Morblot

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Well, I, for one, can't even be bothered to read his blog posts on the matter. Despite its dumb name, I like OSE as it is now, and will either stick to using it or write my own mangled heap of a "D&D" for my own use. Irrational or not, anything associated with anything 5e is just that big of a turn-off for me; that's how much I despise it and especially its haughty holier-than-thou creators.
 

Morblot

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Also, Gavin's sold OSE in so many versions now if he rewrites and releases a new CC version I do really wonder if people are going to go for it.
Or even back funding the books as much as last time as felt like the core selling point of OSE is "this is exactly like B/X just reformatted."
Oh, and re: this. I obviously can't know for sure, but I do feel like Gavin lost the plot a little already when he first teamed up with Exalted Funeral. I get it, he's a "creative" and not a "suit", and would rather not deal with the business side, but still: something has just felt a bit off ever since. A bit more money-hungry, I think. Everything just felt more honest and straight during the first OSE KS, which was by just Necrotic Gnome.
 

Bara

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For sure a talent writer and designer who knows his stuff but I don't know I think he's flying too high to the sky right now.

There are enough repackages of B/X out there the only thing that made OSE special over Labyrinth Lord was that it was a exact clone with better layout and without the please don't sue us tweaks.

He also keeps doing weird things lately. Like he released the individual booklet pdfs on dtrpg but then took them down as people were getting confused what to buy.
Now if you want those pdfs to print out you have to buy the box set to receive the digital copies.

Why not just bundle the individual booklet pdfs with the tome pdfs then when he's not even making any money selling them by themselves digitally?
Who knows but it comes off real weird.

Only concern is if other publishers go with these changes Gavin's pushing with Dolemwood as OSE the most popular to write for still.
Though thats really been a issue already with everyone copying the barebones bullet point approach their adventures following OSE.

Ah well least there's always Melan's stuff along with others.
 

Sacibengala

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Also, Gavin's sold OSE in so many versions now if he rewrites and releases a new CC version I do really wonder if people are going to go for it.
Or even back funding the books as much as last time as felt like the core selling point of OSE is "this is exactly like B/X just reformatted."
Oh, and re: this. I obviously can't know for sure, but I do feel like Gavin lost the plot a little already when he first teamed up with Exalted Funeral. I get it, he's a "creative" and not a "suit", and would rather not deal with the business side, but still: something has just felt a bit off ever since. A bit more money-hungry, I think. Everything just felt more honest and straight during the first OSE KS, which was by just Necrotic Gnome.
Agree. The first sign of this was when he changed the plans of just releasing an "Advanced supplement book" to "let's resell the same rules with the advanced content in 2 books instead of one"
 

Sacibengala

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Why not just bundle the individual booklet pdfs with the tome pdfs then when he's not even making any money selling them by themselves digitally?
Who knows but it comes off real weird.
Last reply, I promise.

The booklets was actually bundled with the classic rules tome on DTRPG, but he stealthly took it out when the new pdfs released. He have this awful behavior of updating files and taking the old ones out.
 

Morblot

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Squidhead

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Can someone explain to me why people are choosing Old School Essentials over the original B/X or BECMI rules? Isn't it just cheaper to buy a print copy of the Rules Cyclopedia and be done with it?
 

Bara

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Ah he's renaming race to be Kindred now, okay sure whatever.
Worst bit though is apparently he's cutting out levels 11-14 and making everyone maximum level 10 now no lower caps for demi-humans.

Along with removing the parts referencing domain management in the class sections thats also dead now.
This really just sounds like a dime a dozen "let me sell you my B/X hombrew with tweaks."

Like man OSE was nice because it was B/X with a layout that made things quicker to reference.
If your really going to go all out on this would it hurt to be a little more inventive with the system?
 

Morblot

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Can someone explain to me why people are choosing Old School Essentials over the original B/X or BECMI rules? Isn't it just cheaper to buy a print copy of the Rules Cyclopedia and be done with it?
Buying anything D&D from DriveThruRPG means more money going to WotC, which we don't want, while buying the old books from eBay or Noble Knight or wherever is expensive as fuck.

Also, as was already said, OSE's layout, as well as its clear, to-the-point writing style, make it much more usable at the table. There's just no comparing it to the horribadly organized BECMI or the big, bulky and WORDY RC.

(I have no experience with the original B/X. I would gladly buy the boxes but they cost far more than I can spend on them.)
 

Morblot

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Ah he's renaming race to be Kindred now, okay sure whatever.
Dig out your plastic fangs, Books of Nod and pieces of paper with "Pistol, Heavy" written on them -- it's time to LARP Vampire: the Masquerade like it was the 90s again!
 

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