Owlcat hiring to develop a turn-based sci-fi RPG

[DraQ]

Holy shit, are we going to get a good sci-fi RPG again?

Again?

Fallout 1-2 are technically sci-fi

Incredibly pulpy retrofuturism doesn't really count as far as I'm concerned.

 

[NJClaw]

Owlcat can do the same thing as Larian with Baldur´s Gate 3/ Original Sin 3. Use fundation from Paathfinder and build W40K RPG on it.

With the non-negligible difference that, while Larian probably is the most competent company at the moment in the field of RPGs (only in the context of software development and optimization, obviously), with the release of Kingmaker, Owlcat proved to be a bunch of amateurs who are just playing a game of "let's pretend that we are adult game developers, yay!".

Unless they completely rebuilt from scratch their engine for WotR (and I really don't think that's the case), the entire game really doesn't stand on solid foundations. They spent more than a year continuously fixing various bugs (some of which were game-breaking), and every patch introduced new errors or reintroduced old ones fixed with earlier patches. That's not an indicator of a strong core system: that's a symptom of an non-coherent piece of software badly designed and quickly assembled together. Hell, some bugs are still in the game after all this time... this means that they are physically unable to tackle some issues (or that it would require an unreasonable amount of time, but that's the same thing). They'd better stick to what they already built.

Luckily for us, they make up for their incompetence with an unreasonable (and, honestly, inspiring) amount of passion.

 

[Gyor]

Owlcat can do the same thing as Larian with Baldur´s Gate 3/ Original Sin 3. Use fundation from Paathfinder and build W40K RPG on it.

With the non-negligible difference that, while Larian probably is the most competent company at the moment in the field of RPGs (only in the context of software development and optimization, obviously), with the release of Kingmaker, Owlcat proved to be a bunch of amateurs who are just playing a game of "let's pretend that we are adult game developers, yay!".

Unless they completely rebuilt from scratch their engine for WotR (and I really don't think that's the case), the entire game really doesn't stand on solid foundations. They spent more than a year continuously fixing various bugs (some of which were game-breaking), and every patch introduced new errors or reintroduced old ones fixed with earlier patches. That's not an indicator of a strong core system: that's a symptom of an non-coherent piece of software badly designed and quickly assembled together. Hell, some bugs are still in the game after all this time... this means that they are physically unable to tackle some issues (or that it would require an unreasonable amount of time, but that's the same thing). They'd better stick to what they already built.

Luckily for us, they make up for their incompetence with an unreasonable (and, honestly, inspiring) amount of passion.

They've clearly learned from the mistakes on Kingmaker and have found ways to not only do things better, and expanded their tool box for preventing and fixing bugs, as well as vastly increasing effiencies for building areas.

Passion + Practice= Improved Abilities. Read through some of the Dev blogs were they talk about what they are doing differently in making Wrath of the Righteous.

 

[LannTheStupid]

To be honest, the dev blogs tell interesting stories. About an ever present crossbow on every map in the (0, 0, 0) point. About how they created a bot for faster bug finding - which is great, but makes one think about inherent deficiencies of the code if bugs are so persistent. And the nature of Kingmaker's bugs and the reintroduction of old ones in new release builds tells stories about the product build discipline in the company.

For me it tells about poor management which is, again, persistent in Russian companies. That is why they like to reinvent the wheel, like developing a forum engine just for their forums. Which is, again, awesome - but... why?

But there is another side of it. What are the alternatives?

I bought both Original Sins and just cannot start playing them. I have seen the BG-3 footage and agree that it looks like Original Sin 3, and, probably, I won't play it, either. What else proper software managers in Western companies gave us: Call of Duty? Battlefront? Fallout-76? Anthem?..

So... I don't know. I wish Owlcat Games improve their software devlopment. But I would very much prefer an unfinished buggy product that I really want to play to a polished game that I have bought, but never installed on my SSD.

 

[Gyor]

To be honest, the dev blogs tell interesting stories. About an ever present crossbow on every map in the (0, 0, 0) point. About how they created a bot for faster bug finding - which is great, but makes one think about inherent deficiencies of the code if bugs are so persistent. And the nature of Kingmaker's bugs and the reintroduction of old ones in new release builds tells stories about the product build discipline in the company.

For me it tells about poor management which is, again, persistent in Russian companies. That is why they like to reinvent the wheel, like developing a forum engine just for their forums. Which is, again, awesome - but... why?

But there is another side of it. What are the alternatives?

I bought both Original Sins and just cannot start playing them. I have seen the BG-3 footage and agree that it looks like Original Sin 3, and, probably, I won't play it, either. What else proper software managers in Western companies gave us: Call of Duty? Battlefront? Fallout-76? Anthem?..

So... I don't know. I wish Owlcat Games improve their software devlopment. But I would very much prefer an unfinished buggy product that I really want to play to a polished game that I have bought, but never installed on my SSD.

Well I haven't heard the Wrath of the Righteous is anywhere near as buggy as Kingmaker was so I have a good feeling.

And having looked at every BG3 clip, I find it baffling that anyone could be anything less then optimistic about BG3, and I'm nit a Divinity fan boy, I only rescently bought it and I still haven't left Fort Joy yet. Too early to judge DOS2.

Just curious but did you try Solasta Demo while it was out?

 

[NJClaw]

Owlcat can do the same thing as Larian with Baldur´s Gate 3/ Original Sin 3. Use fundation from Paathfinder and build W40K RPG on it.

With the non-negligible difference that, while Larian probably is the most competent company at the moment in the field of RPGs (only in the context of software development and optimization, obviously), with the release of Kingmaker, Owlcat proved to be a bunch of amateurs who are just playing a game of "let's pretend that we are adult game developers, yay!".

Unless they completely rebuilt from scratch their engine for WotR (and I really don't think that's the case), the entire game really doesn't stand on solid foundations. They spent more than a year continuously fixing various bugs (some of which were game-breaking), and every patch introduced new errors or reintroduced old ones fixed with earlier patches. That's not an indicator of a strong core system: that's a symptom of an non-coherent piece of software badly designed and quickly assembled together. Hell, some bugs are still in the game after all this time... this means that they are physically unable to tackle some issues (or that it would require an unreasonable amount of time, but that's the same thing). They'd better stick to what they already built.

Luckily for us, they make up for their incompetence with an unreasonable (and, honestly, inspiring) amount of passion.

They've clearly learned from the mistakes on Kingmaker and have found ways to not only do things better, and expanded their tool box for preventing and fixing bugs, as well as vastly increasing effiencies for building areas.

Passion + Practice= Improved Abilities. Read through some of the Dev blogs were they talk about what they are doing differently in making Wrath of the Righteous.

Well, it would be quite shocking to hear them say "nah, you know, we are doing things worse this time around".

 

[LannTheStupid]

Just curious but did you try Solasta Demo while it was out?

No, I did not. It looks good, though. Thank you, I will add it to my wishlists.

 

[Gyor]

Just curious but did you try Solasta Demo while it was out?

No, I did not. It looks good, though. Thank you, I will add it to my wishlists.

Your welcome.

 

[Gyor]

Having seen how they handled the release of Kingmaker, I'm fairly sure of which one is the correct choice for them.

Yeah, Starfinder is such an obvious choice I'm surprised how there could be even a shadow of a doubt.

1. Paizo wants more exposure to their less popular setting.
2. Owlcats Everyone wants more money for less work.

Adapting already implemented and tested out set of pathfinder core rules to the "same shit but in space" would take incomparingly less work then building everything from sratch.
So even though I relate to the people wanting a good wh40k tb rpg, this is not it.

The only reason to doubt it is that Iron Gods AP is also Sci-Fi and it's Pathfinder system, so they wouldn't have to redue their classes, mechanics, races, ect..., like they would for Starfinder which would require huge mechanical changes and rules for starships and so on, which is a huge amount of work.

I thought Starfinder at first too, but ironically your reasons for thinking it is Starfinder instead of Warhammer 40k, apply far better to Iron Gods then it does Starfinder.

Plus while I don't think Iron Gods used Mythic Paths, Owlcats Mythic Path system is so different as for that not to matter, they can just add it in among other changes to the AP.

This allows them to use most of the assets they already have, in a game system that they have invested heavily in over 2 games, for one of Paizo's most popular APs, it allows them to do Sci Fi, without rebuilding everything they have already done, and they can do it with their current Pathfinder licence without getting a seperate one for Starfinder. And Iron Gods has strong Sci Fi elements to it that can be expanded upon.

Prediction, they add playable Andriods and playable Lashtuna. Maybe Gunslinger too.

 

[Chippy]

They've read my posts and have been inspired!.

It will be a Transformers RPG!.

 

[Cryomancer]

I'll take Starfinder thank you

Technomancer is the reason which I chose starfinder too.

There are any game with decent technomancy implementation?

It will be a Transformers RPG!.

Nope. Will be SW:Kotor 3. hu3hu3hu3hu3

Iron Gods AP

Does Iron Gods comes with Technomancer prestige class? https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/technomancer

 

[deuxhero]

Having seen how they handled the release of Kingmaker, I'm fairly sure of which one is the correct choice for them.

Yeah, Starfinder is such an obvious choice I'm surprised how there could be even a shadow of a doubt.

1. Paizo wants more exposure to their less popular setting.
2. Owlcats Everyone wants more money for less work.

Adapting already implemented and tested out set of pathfinder core rules to the "same shit but in space" would take incomparingly less work then building everything from sratch.
So even though I relate to the people wanting a good wh40k tb rpg, this is not it.

The only reason to doubt it is that Iron Gods AP is also Sci-Fi and it's Pathfinder system, so they wouldn't have to redue their classes, mechanics, races, ect..., like they would for Starfinder which would require huge mechanical changes and rules for starships and so on, which is a huge amount of work.

I thought Starfinder at first too, but ironically your reasons for thinking it is Starfinder instead of Warhammer 40k, apply far better to Iron Gods then it does Starfinder.

Plus while I don't think Iron Gods used Mythic Paths, Owlcats Mythic Path system is so different as for that not to matter, they can just add it in among other changes to the AP.

This allows them to use most of the assets they already have, in a game system that they have invested heavily in over 2 games, for one of Paizo's most popular APs, it allows them to do Sci Fi, without rebuilding everything they have already done, and they can do it with their current Pathfinder licence without getting a seperate one for Starfinder. And Iron Gods has strong Sci Fi elements to it that can be expanded upon.

Prediction, they add playable Andriods and playable Lashtuna. Maybe Gunslinger too.

Lashtuna is explicitly not something to play in that AP.

Note that the other player character races presented in People of the Stars are not entirely appropriate for this campaign—if you wish to play one of them, you’ll certainly need GM approval ahead of time

Spoiler

Part of the AP includes aliens and the characters aren't supposed to have any idea WTF they are. One of them is an NPC ally that would likely be a companion, though as part of book 4 out of 6, she joins pretty late.

Gunslinger is a terrible class, not because it's impossible to make a good character mechanically in one, but because literally all they do is give passive or near passive abilities that help make a terrible sub-system less terrible. A single ability they get does anything but "shoot people", and it's "shoot things". It also depends on GM calls for its main ability pool, so unworkable in a video game. Really a video game should just do what the tabletop should have done in the first place and ditch the whole gun sub-system in favor of just making them slow to reload but powerful simple weapons. That's a valid gameplay niche between the harder to use (needs martial weapon prof and strength) but fast bow, the middle ground crossbow, and the energy weapons that are fast and powerful but with finite ammo.

Iron God is overall one of the best AP choices for a video game. After act 1 is cleared, there's absolutely nothing stopping the PCs from freely traveling the largely untamed country except dangerous foes. It's very dungeon crawl focused, but has enough social parts and overland travel characters outside that can be useful. Biggest "problem" is the region lacks any really major city that isn't hostile for expensive items and NPC casting, but there's enough right on the other side the border. On the other hand, I still think WotR was one of the worst suited APs to being made into a video game, so what do I know.

 

[luj1]

If it wont have kingdom management I'm in

 

[Cryomancer]

If it wont have kingdom management I'm in

Would have a space ship management.

 

[Israfael]

If it's WH40k, there's no need to reinvent the wheel — they can simply pick up the Dark Heresy, if it's legally possible (and hire Alex Stewart to finish his damned books, still waiting on those, emprah-dammit!)

 

[kreight]

Good news!

 

[Pink Eye]

Did anything ever come out of this? It would be *great* if it was a Warhammer cRPG - instead of Starfinder.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Nothing good has ever come from Warhammer CRPG's. As a slightly superstitious person I'd prefer Owlcat Games to make a masterpiece out of Starfinder than to kill the studio by another Warhammer disaster.

Also, it's good to see you back Pink Eye . Has your COVID-19 been kind to you?

 

[Thonius]

Because they always hired retarded studios and were just called RPG? Like that Inquisitor "rpg" that is just hack and slash fest.

 

[kreight]

I think its 99% Starfinder. They now have a strong relationship with Paizo. Only logical to build on that.

 

[fantadomat]

Hmmm a Cyberpunk 2078 ,maybe?

 

[Gyor]

Nothing good has ever come from Warhammer CRPG's. As a slightly superstitious person I'd prefer Owlcat Games to make a masterpiece out of Starfinder than to kill the studio by another Warhammer disaster.

Also, it's good to see you back Pink Eye . Has your COVID-19 been kind to you?

I've never liked Warhammer, so I'd prefer that over Warhammer. Still I think Iron Gods are more likely then either.

 

[Gyor]

Having seen how they handled the release of Kingmaker, I'm fairly sure of which one is the correct choice for them.

Yeah, Starfinder is such an obvious choice I'm surprised how there could be even a shadow of a doubt.

1. Paizo wants more exposure to their less popular setting.
2. Owlcats Everyone wants more money for less work.

Adapting already implemented and tested out set of pathfinder core rules to the "same shit but in space" would take incomparingly less work then building everything from sratch.
So even though I relate to the people wanting a good wh40k tb rpg, this is not it.

The only reason to doubt it is that Iron Gods AP is also Sci-Fi and it's Pathfinder system, so they wouldn't have to redue their classes, mechanics, races, ect..., like they would for Starfinder which would require huge mechanical changes and rules for starships and so on, which is a huge amount of work.

I thought Starfinder at first too, but ironically your reasons for thinking it is Starfinder instead of Warhammer 40k, apply far better to Iron Gods then it does Starfinder.

Plus while I don't think Iron Gods used Mythic Paths, Owlcats Mythic Path system is so different as for that not to matter, they can just add it in among other changes to the AP.

This allows them to use most of the assets they already have, in a game system that they have invested heavily in over 2 games, for one of Paizo's most popular APs, it allows them to do Sci Fi, without rebuilding everything they have already done, and they can do it with their current Pathfinder licence without getting a seperate one for Starfinder. And Iron Gods has strong Sci Fi elements to it that can be expanded upon.

Prediction, they add playable Andriods and playable Lashtuna. Maybe Gunslinger too.

Lashtuna is explicitly not something to play in that AP.

Note that the other player character races presented in People of the Stars are not entirely appropriate for this campaign—if you wish to play one of them, you’ll certainly need GM approval ahead of time

Spoiler

Part of the AP includes aliens and the characters aren't supposed to have any idea WTF they are. One of them is an NPC ally that would likely be a companion, though as part of book 4 out of 6, she joins pretty late.

Gunslinger is a terrible class, not because it's impossible to make a good character mechanically in one, but because literally all they do is give passive or near passive abilities that help make a terrible sub-system less terrible. A single ability they get does anything but "shoot people", and it's "shoot things". It also depends on GM calls for its main ability pool, so unworkable in a video game. Really a video game should just do what the tabletop should have done in the first place and ditch the whole gun sub-system in favor of just making them slow to reload but powerful simple weapons. That's a valid gameplay niche between the harder to use (needs martial weapon prof and strength) but fast bow, the middle ground crossbow, and the energy weapons that are fast and powerful but with finite ammo.

Iron God is overall one of the best AP choices for a video game. After act 1 is cleared, there's absolutely nothing stopping the PCs from freely traveling the largely untamed country except dangerous foes. It's very dungeon crawl focused, but has enough social parts and overland travel characters outside that can be useful. Biggest "problem" is the region lacks any really major city that isn't hostile for expensive items and NPC casting, but there's enough right on the other side the border. On the other hand, I still think WotR was one of the worst suited APs to being made into a video game, so what do I know.

Kitsune also don't "fit" into the AP, but I don't see them ditching races they've already done.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I've never liked Warhammer

 

[LESS T_T]

May or may not be related with this game.

While I'm digging on something, I noticed Rook One Games (formerly Redemption Ark), another Russian developer consists of ex-Mail.Ru, ex-Nival developers, is working on a sci-fi turn-based RPG based on a "popular franchise". They did outsource work on P:KM too, so apparently has close relationship with Owlcat.

Website: http://rook1.com/

Main images for the website are from some alternative WW2 top-down shooter game for mobile, but their game list has this:

Unnanounced CRPG
Classic isometric party-based computer game set in a famous universe

From my shallow knowledge about the material, the image looks like Starfinder, isn't it?

But after more digging on this, I found that they actually worked on a sci-fi RPG for Paradox Interactive. Per Linkedin profiles, they worked on it at least from 2018, some mentions this is "unreleased" (likely canceled).

https://www.linkedin.com/in/anton-nadvorskiy-39849020/

PC: an unannounced isometric roleplaying game for Paradox Games.

Responsibilities:
- Understand the strategic intentions for the product and work towards achieving them
- Define and uphold the game’s vision throughout production. Ensure its consistency and understand how all the pieces work together as a creative whole
- Drive all aspects of the game, from context and world creation to game design and to how the game looks, feels and sounds
- Continuously respond to changes, reshape the vision, and communicate it to everybody, inspiring, involving and aligning the team around creative goals
- Be the spokesperson for the game’s vision within the team and towards corporate management, the press and players
- Build the narrative structure of the game from the breaking and outlining of story and characters to the writing of cinematic synopses
- Formalize, document and update the narrative structure and its implementation, according to the principles established by the franchise
- Throughout the production, make necessary changes on systems and events according to feedback, to provide a consistent narrative experience and the desired player experience

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dmitriychekaykin/

- Worked on an unreleased turn-based RPG game in a wide-known sci-fi setting targeting PC and consoles.
- Created base game mechanics from scratch
- Implemented a graph-based blueprint system to allow game designers to create quests, abilities and dialogues

One of them actually linked a demo reel that shows actual in-dev footages of it. And looking at the terms from in-game text, it is... Stellaris RPG.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-naumov-957747a1/

Well what I'm wondering now is, if they are now working on a Starfinder CRPG, re-using what they have created for the Stellaris RPG, partnered with Owlcat? Or the image on their website is just irrelevant (to me it looks pretty different from the footages, looks more like Starfinder), they actually stopped working on RPG to focus on outsourcing and mobile games?