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Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline

Gerrard

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GGG themselves have said that most people never trade, or do single digit number of trades in the whole league. Since they haven't changed their stance about trade that must mean this remains true.
 

Absinthe

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(...)
The laziest way to fix your flask charge generation problem is to get an Overflowing Chalice flask and use the new Enkindling Orb to give it something like +90% duration in exchange for the flask being unable to gain flask charges while active (which means nothing because Overflowing Chalice already does that) and then you just keep Overflowing Chalice active whenever you need other flasks to recharge faster.

On a side note, it seems Doryani's Fist + Manastorm + Rigwald's Curse + Mind of the Council + Brutal Restraint (Nasima) has potential to do massive damage.

Good stuff, thanx - I really like these all unique builds especially after discovering triple resist small jewels.
Forgot to mention, but definitely also use Arcane Cloak here. Anyway with a build like this you want to stack the shit out of those Scintillating Idea notables you get from cluster jewels. A lightning large cluster jewel has a Scintillating Idea too, so you can get 3 scintillating ideas per large cluster jewel doing this (no need for Voices), giving you an easy 30% lightning penetration in just 2 large cluster jewels (you can go for 3 tbh) along with a massive amount of increased maximum mana.

I have a scion caster with a mostly unscathed staff (and "drinking problems" ™ :lol: ) . That new reduced flask charge skill looks better to start with than "aqueous accelerant" (top anoint with this kinda gear , hopefully they not listed the whole node as bonus just one passive.

Point is , the flask effect stuff stopped scaling.
Like I said, just use the new Enkindler Orbs with 2x 20%+ Replica Rumi's Concoction (Enkindler Orb for massive duration) and Kaom's Roots for all the block you'll ever need. You can get 75% block with a perfect roll Replica Rumi's Concoction and just +50% increased flask effect alone doing this.

ArchAngel, there's also much lazier shit like getting over 20k max life and using Bloodseeker as your weapon so that every single hit you deal instantly brings you back to 100% life.

That said the curse stacking immunity build is very good (but expensive) since you can curse enemies into the ground while you're at it and if you stack skill effect duration you can make a single Gluttony of Elements last over 30 seconds and you won't even need Soul Catcher flasks. You'll probably still want Pathfinder (and an Overflowing Chalice maybe) so you can charge Soul Ripper out of nowhere for the boss fights. The non-curse effect stacking variant is actually pretty cheap and doable but reapplying Gluttony of Elements at 100 vaal souls every 7 or 8 seconds (more with more curse effect) is a pain in the ass, even if you are getting at least +40% charge generation, flask charge on crit, and 3 flask charges every 3 seconds (multiplied by increased flask charges gained).
Cool those are two build.. what about others? Neither helps what I want to play. Also neither supports fun gameplay of leveling up, picking logical passives and using good drops..you know like how every other aRPG works.
It is cool that this game supports 1% of crazies, but 3.15 will scare most others when difficulty will no longer be fun and grind will be too much.
What the hell is the fun gameplay of Path of Exile? You just build a god skill and mash it nonstop to end all life. If you don't enjoy building wild stuff, why bother with PoE?

Anyway, I already mentioned using Chainbreaker with increased mana regeneration to get long-lasting Berserk on top of your Fortify. It's also possible to use extreme self-tchains for long-lasting Immortal Call. You can also just raise max resists to 90% with shit like element-specific Purity auras, cluster jewel notables (prismatic carapace or prismatic dance), regular notables, and maybe a Grey Spire Unique staff or Saffel's Frame unique shield or shit.

You can also just make a huge health and mana Mind Over Matter build.

Or lazier still, go CI, stack increased max ES, and stack small cluster jewels that give you +100 max es. You can easily slap Fortify on top of this and carry some endurance charges too.

Or maybe do an int-stacking build while you're collecting ES for supremely high ES value, like Hand of Wisdom and Action, which you can then combo with Ghost Reaver and some attack life leech for easy ES leech so you pretty much always regen 40% of max ES per second. Maybe throw increased mana on top since you have massive int and a Mind of the Council with some mana leech and throw an Arcane Cloak on top. Now you do massive damage with your massive ES.

Or do one of those Slayer (Slayer not necessary if you have Immortal Ambition from a unique) extreme leech builds using Vaal Pact and increased maximum leech rate with a Kaom's Lethal Pride timeless jewel, maybe stack some Adrenaline notables from cluster jewels on top. You can easily turn that into 30%+ less damage taken.

Or just do Gladiator, get Acrobatics and Phase Acrobatics, Equip Hyrri's Ire, equip Hinekora's Sight, equip Kaom's Roots, use a good bow, equip Rearguard unique quiver with 24% attack block, use a Quartz Flask and 2x 20%+ Replica Rumi's Concoction (50% attack block variant) with the Rekindler Orb for massive duration, stack at least 20% flask effect, maybe use a Lioneye's Fall on the Marauder/Duelist cluster node so you can get +10% block and a lot of crit with a bow, get 40% increased flask effect, stack some dodge and spelldodge off of minor jewels, and you should be able to get 77%+ block, 77%+ spellblock, 75% dodge, and 75% spelldodge on the same build.

There's more shit, as always, not to mention a bunch of the above can be combined with each other.
 
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ArchAngel

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I played this game way back when you didn't need all that shit to build a viable character. I miss that game.

For example I don't care to use cluster jewels or timeless jewels. Both make character planning irritating and needlessly complicated while GGG balanced the game around people using that shit. Game was better before they introduced them both.

I was irritated enough once Watcher's Eye was introduced because it caused same problem but it all went overboards with these other two additions.

I enjoyed D2 with slap some items, select your skills and take some charms and have fun fighting enemies. PoE was more like that once and it was 2x better game.
 
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Tacgnol

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
GGG themselves have said that most people never trade, or do single digit number of trades in the whole league. Since they haven't changed their stance about trade that must mean this remains true.

GGG says a lot of things. Often contradictory.

I'd be cautious about believing everything they say.
 

Jason Liang

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Is there any point to playing a Scion/ Ascendant these days? I've been trying to figure out how to respec my mothballed Scion, and nearly all the options for the Ascendant passive tree seem to suck.
 

Jason Liang

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Is there any point to playing a Scion/ Ascendant these days? I've been trying to figure out how to respec my mothballed Scion, and nearly all the options for the Ascendant passive tree seem to suck.
Mass Cluster abusing, weird-n-jank hybrid setups and aurabotting
Yeah I saw a lot of weird Ascendant aurabot builds on poe ninja. Not sure how they do damage (no summons)? Are they just for partying?
 

tritosine2k

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Is there any point to playing a Scion/ Ascendant these days? I've been trying to figure out how to respec my mothballed Scion, and nearly all the options for the Ascendant passive tree seem to suck.
Mass Cluster abusing, weird-n-jank hybrid setups and aurabotting
Yeah I saw a lot of weird Ascendant aurabot builds on poe ninja. Not sure how they do damage (no summons)? Are they just for partying?

Those are laaaaaaaaaate game builds, but you can start by vaal-ing the
Conqueror's
https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Conqueror's_Efficiency
jewel you get from act8 for that winged ornament thing. If it gives you implicit -1% mana reserved then you already earned exalts and a good omen. Otherwise you will pay arm& leg anyway. Early aurabots on ninja seem to be some collective effort. For solo, basically you need to respec twice I think. I do some easy levelling with minions, respec caster, and will try this vaal jewel stuff too. Doubt it will work . But that's nice potential income anyhow. DMG is minion or Spark (nice).

Oh,
Conqueror's Potency even has flask effect they didn't (...) yet.
 
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ArchAngel

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Talking about 1% top players, neither Raiz or Zizaran are happy about all the nerfs.
 

Jaedar

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Is there any point to playing a Scion/ Ascendant these days? I've been trying to figure out how to respec my mothballed Scion, and nearly all the options for the Ascendant passive tree seem to suck.
Some weird skill combos don't really have a good ascendency, so then you can cobble together something half decent with ascendant. Also lots of jewel slots, and high base stats.

So, is the new league zoom-zoom as usual?
The new league does not seem to have any timed mechanics. Unless the difficulty turns out to be high enough that you need to splatter each wave in seconds to prevent enemy aura stacking.
 

Absinthe

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Is there any point to playing a Scion/ Ascendant these days? I've been trying to figure out how to respec my mothballed Scion, and nearly all the options for the Ascendant passive tree seem to suck.
Aurabotting is the obvious one. Scion is also good for abusing jewels, especially cluster jewels, and it gets extra passives, which means it is pretty fucking strong for all varieties of stat maximizing builds. Scion also has some sneakier stunts like stacking Gladiator + Necromancer for self-buff Bone Offering and giving yourself +30% block and spellblock. Berserker Scion can get you rage on most ranged/unarmed attack builds in addition to its damage multiplier. Hierophant means the Scion is still a good pick for Spell Totem builds. Elementalist Scion has the +20% resistance-nuking exposure buff so it's solid for that as well. Pathfinder Scion is honestly good enough for vaal skill builds that need to charge up a Soul Ripper for boss fights (yes, the 3 charges every 3 seconds can be gamed). Assassin Scion is usually a budget way to fix crit on a lot of builds, especially when you throw in Pure Talent for another +0.5% increased crit (you can do this without going Shadow though), and is usually a decent way to boost spell crit. Slayer Scion lets you abuse anything that requires active leech effects, including doing shit like grabbing Vaal Pact and Kaom's Lethal Pride so you can get that massive EHP multiplier on your Shavs/Ivory Tower build (just get flat ES regen and ESf leech off of cluster jewel notables, why not). Champion Scion basically gives you +20% more damage for most attack builds, and Raider Scion gives you +30% movespeed along with a solid +20% cast speed. It's pretty solid for getting frenzy charges and movespeed going on spell builds in particular.

So right off the bat I can say that Scion is good for Brutus' Lead Sprinkler, Pillar of the Caged Gods (may want to get a bunch of life and throw in Bloodthirst + Petrified Blood - may also want to get the Rage support for the flat phys and attack speed), Hand of Wisdom and Action, Hollow Palm, wand attack builds, spell totem builds (will probably have to get a shaper shield for +1 totem cap or otherwise Tukohama's Fortress and end up with Blood Magic and Mortal Conviction, but at least Supreme Ego works well with that), aurabot, etc.

Is there any point to playing a Scion/ Ascendant these days? I've been trying to figure out how to respec my mothballed Scion, and nearly all the options for the Ascendant passive tree seem to suck.
Mass Cluster abusing, weird-n-jank hybrid setups and aurabotting
Yeah I saw a lot of weird Ascendant aurabot builds on poe ninja. Not sure how they do damage (no summons)? Are they just for partying?
It's gotta be summons or party members for aurabots really, but if you forego Prism Guardian you can try shit like 2x Replica Dreamfeather Iron Reflexes with Cleave skill and Rage support and basically attempt to abuse damage auras and armor auras. That's going to be a flask piano build though, because of Granite Flask of Iron Skin + Jade Flask of Reflexes + Basalt Flask + Stibnite Flask (may want Willowgift so you can Fortify - Overwhelming Odds jewel provides - into a massive evasion boost), but at least you should break 200,000 armor without any real difficulty and have auras boosting your attack damage.
 
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Reever

Scholar
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so which build are you guys going to play
i think im going with
uninstall wizard


On a more serious note, I'm thinking of either a Rage Vortex Zerker or Reaper Necro that I can respec into mage skellies if everything goes wrong. I wanted Forbidden Rite but no way in hell that's a good league starter so it might be my second character if I don't get bored 'till then.
 

T. Reich

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not even close
GGG themselves have said that most people never trade, or do single digit number of trades in the whole league. Since they haven't changed their stance about trade that must mean this remains true.

GGG says a lot of things. Often contradictory.

I'd be cautious about believing everything they say.

Oh c'mon now, GGG are small indie devs, why would they lie to their supporters?:roll:
 

Tacgnol

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
GGG themselves have said that most people never trade, or do single digit number of trades in the whole league. Since they haven't changed their stance about trade that must mean this remains true.

GGG says a lot of things. Often contradictory.

I'd be cautious about believing everything they say.

Oh c'mon now, GGG are small indie devs, why would they lie to their supporters?:roll:

Oh lord, I forgot how Chris still likes to pull that excuse out.

The "small indie dev" sold for over $100m with hundreds of employees, majority owned by one of the biggest corporations in the world.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Hmm, forbidden rite has truly awful base damage unless there's some shotgun/double hit going on. Don't think I can squeeze workable dps out of it with a CI build in ssf. Maybe when there's proper PoB support, but I suspect it would need crazy high ES equipment. I also tried building it with life, stacking chaos res and recovery, but can't quite get it to good numbers there either.

Might try some kind of reaper or dark pact build instead. It seems really hard to make a good non-assassin crit build with diamond flasks nuked.
 

Reinhardt

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If you get randomly oneshot the moment you step into redmaps, its not really a random occurence, its because your build has no defensive layers, or at most one. Thats not the game being shit, thats people being shit at the game.
Yeah, being oneshotted on glacier before enemies even loaded on your screen because update broke some shit again is because your build is shit. Not game.
 

ArchAngel

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If you get randomly oneshot the moment you step into redmaps, its not really a random occurence, its because your build has no defensive layers, or at most one. Thats not the game being shit, thats people being shit at the game.
Yeah, being oneshotted on glacier before enemies even loaded on your screen because update broke some shit again is because your build is shit. Not game.
He does not understand what one shot means. While it can mean true one shots, those are rare and mostly happen vs unique enemies. Real meaning is huge amounts of damage that comes so fast average players cannot do anything to avoid it.

Edit: As someone said: when top players like no life streamers have to watch replays of their deaths on 0.25x speed to figure out how they died you got a serious problem with the game.
 
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Tacgnol

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
If you get randomly oneshot the moment you step into redmaps, its not really a random occurence, its because your build has no defensive layers, or at most one. Thats not the game being shit, thats people being shit at the game.
Yeah, being oneshotted on glacier before enemies even loaded on your screen because update broke some shit again is because your build is shit. Not game.
He does not understand what one shot means. While it can mean true one shots, those are rare and mostly happen vs unique enemies. Real meaning is huge amounts of damage that comes so fast average players cannot do anything to avoid it.

Edit: As someone said: when top players like no life streamers have to watch replays of their deaths on 0.25x speed to figure out how they died you got a serious problem with the game.

It's often multiple sources of visually indistinct damage just to make things worse.

In many ways this is a result of GGG's awful visual design. Different abilities often overlay each other or look virtually identical on screen.
 

Jason Liang

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Chris posted on POE reddit:

Some thoughts from Chris
renderTimingPixel.png

GGG
Hey Reddit,

We've read heaps of feedback on Reddit over the last week, and wanted to address some of the topics that have come up a lot.

There has been speculation that I have personally been driving the balance changes to match my original vision for Path of Exile. There is a little truth to this, in that I want to restore areas of the game that were important but have been eroded, but almost every area of specific balance work is the product of a large team of designers working together for a long time to come up with solutions to problems we want to address.

We care more about making a good game than we do about vanity metrics like player concurrency records. I suspect this is because we're gamers first and businesspeople second. The direction Path of Exile was going in over the last year was breaking player records but wasn't really leaving us happy with our own game.

For more than a year we've been accumulating changes that we were worried about releasing because they would affect the way people currently play Path of Exile. We understand that our game is an escape for some players and if that is potentially disrupted, it could be very upsetting for them. We have great appreciation for the fact that Path of Exile has become part of your lives. When someone comes into my office with a prospective nerf, more than half the time I suggest we don't do it because it would hurt a build without a sufficiently good reason. We try to be very cautious and to care about your experience with Path of Exile.

Unfortunately, we've been hitting a breaking point with power creep recently and really need to address it. Meanwhile, much of the community has grown increasingly unhappy with the direction the game is heading in. It honestly feels to us that this is in part because we've moved further away from our own vision over time.

So, you're unhappy and we're unhappy and that means it's really time that we start to correct things. The changes we are making in Expedition are a carefully-considered set that sound daunting but probably have less overall impact on the way you will play the game than you suspect they may. These changes really open up possibilities for the future and put us in a good position for working towards the release of Path of Exile 2.

When I'm writing to the community, I usually try to avoid saying what is fun and what isn't (as it's quite subjective), but we are very confident that the new Path of Exile is going to be more fun. There's a wealth of powerful new builds out there to discover and we honestly can't wait to see what you come up with.

I'd like to talk about some specific topics that have come up on reddit in the last week:

What is your motivation behind increasing the mana cost of so many support gems? Why wasn't this mentioned in the game balance manifesto?

During the gamewide balance assessment we did for 3.15, we identified many support gems that just cost too little mana and needed to be adjusted up to the fair baseline for their effects.

We mentioned this in the manifesto as:

"We have also taken this opportunity to make mana multipliers on support gems more consistent. In general, mana multipliers have gone up slightly, but several gems have had mana multipliers lowered as a result of this pass."

At the time of writing, we hadn't worked out final values for these gems and hence the manifesto section was written vaguely and inadvertently downplayed the extent of the changes. I'm sorry about this and we'll try to be clearer in the future. This is especially disappointing because our main intent with the manifesto was to make sure that it had detailed and transparent explanations for most of our big changes.

Why did you remove the Cold Damage Over Time stat from Hypothermia?

We're going to be re-adding cold damage over time to Hypothermia, granting 29% more at gem level 20.

Hypothermia was never intended to be a cold DoT support gem. It just had the cold damage over time stat added because cold DoT builds needed more support gems at the time. As there are now more alternatives and the support gem was effectively two different supports combined into one, we decided to remove it.

A lot of players have found the removal confusing or jarring and we don't really have any balance concerns with it being there, so we've decided to add it back for now. We will remove it from Hypothermia again when we create another cold DoT-focused support gem in future.

Do you really believe that Ultimatum had poor player retention because it was too rewarding?

I was interviewed by Jason at VentureBeat and we chatted about the Ultimatum league. The take-away line that is quoted from this interview is that I felt that Ultimatum had bad retention because it was too rewarding, and people are quick to point out that this was not the problem with Ultimatum.

I agree.

The quote from the interview is as follows:

"Retention during the league was poor. I would say it was in the bottom 40% of leagues, a bit below average. And this is partly because for the league, both its combat was a bit spammy and its item rewards were a bit spammy," said Wilson. "These are two things we hadn’t determined during playtesting that became apparent over the course of the league. And so the fact that it was quite heavy with its reward systems meant that players played it for less time than they normally would, and this was quite useful to learn from." [...] "So overall player numbers dipped a little more than they would have done by the third month, which is disappointing, but it’s a consequence of the way that Ultimatum was designed."

To put my thoughts into a considered, written reply (rather than an off-the-cuff answer to an unexpected question in an interview primarily about Expedition): There were two big problems with the Ultimatum league from my point of view:

  • The encounters themselves didn't have great combat. They achieved challenge by just spamming a whole lot of rare monsters at you and it was hard to follow what was going on.

  • While the core Ultimatum double-or-nothing item reward system was decent, the absolutely massive spam of items that occurred after these encounters was unnecessary and only contributes to the problems that Path of Exile has with items currently.
I absolutely agree that the first of these points (spammy encounters), alongside other meta issues (stale metagame, etc.) contributed far more to poor retention than the heavy rewards did. The rewards issue is more of a long-term problem and I should not have implied that it was related to the immediate performance of the league.

In this clip, you mentioned that you weren't going to make sudden, extreme changes to the game - are these changes in line with that statement?

The balance changes we're making to Path of Exile in 3.15 are not the type of drastic changes that I was referring to in that clip from 2019. The changes they made to that Marvel Heroes game were ten times as impactful as what we are doing here. We are not fundamentally changing how Path of Exile is played to anywhere near such to a significant degree. We are not looking at one-minute map runs and saying that they should now take ten minutes. Yes, the balance changes do have an impact on the design of many builds, but those builds will still be capable and appropriately powerful afterwards. I know the changes are daunting to look at before you're able to experience them in game, but there are so many more opportunities for viable builds now, and we're expecting it to be a lot more engaging to play.

By the way, I stand by exactly what I said in that 2019 interview. We often discuss making larger changes to the game and we cite the points mentioned in that clip as the reason to be careful, to not change too much at once, and to seek community feedback on the changes. We have been carefully following your feedback and will continue to do so once you've had a chance to play and let us know how it has affected your builds in practise.

Why didn't you nerf aurabots? Is this favouritism from developers?

We don't have a specific plan that we are ready to commit to yet. We like how auras individually work, and feel that stacking a bunch of auras on your own character also has appropriate costs. We know that dedicated aura support characters are very powerful but we don't have a specific plan ready for 3.15 to address this, so it hasn't been included in the patch. We have given all of our balance changes a lot of thought and testing, and want to apply the same standards to a potential aura change.

Some players speculate that because Mark (Neon) played this build in the past, he is protecting it from nerfs. A plan wasn't brought to him for approval in 3.15 and we had a lot of nerfs already so we didn't go out of our way to rush one in.

Do you make game balance decisions based on incorrect data from the community wiki?

There was a 4000-upvote thread about how we balance skills by looking at incorrect data on the wiki and making decisions based on those numbers.

We don't use the wiki for doing balance work. The numbers that we tweak in our internal tools are an entirely different form than the final values you see in the game or on the wiki. What happened in this case was a mistake while preparing the patch notes. The person preparing the patch notes often copy/pastes the formatting for skill stat descriptions from the wiki and then adjusts the values to the correct ones based on the skill's balance history. Unfortunately with over a thousand distinct patch notes to write, many of which only getting final values in the last few days, mistakes were made and a few values were left unmodified and incorrect.

This led to a misleading patch note and a lot of confusion. This was a mistake and it shouldn't have happened. But I can assure you we aren't balancing based on wiki data when we have it in a significantly different form in our internal tools.

With over a hundred developers and thousands of changes going into each expansion, communicating everything clearly is a challenge. We will continue to improve this process and welcome any feedback about how we can make changes to Path of Exile in a way that is better understood and less upsetting to players. If you have feedback about what you would have preferred us to have done differently during our pre-launch period this time, please share it with us. In the meantime, I'm going to get back to playtesting Expedition. See you on Friday!
 

Jaedar

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I saw that thing on reddit, and I think the top reply was pretty spot on:
The thing is, that many players feel like you've fixed the part that you felt unhappy with (power creep), while not fixing the part that we felt unhappy with (untelegraphed one-shots, tedious atlas progression, item inflation etc.).
If there was an address towards the latter, the patch might have been perceived better.
 

tritosine2k

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1,465
I saw that thing on reddit, and I think the top reply was pretty spot on:
The thing is, that many players feel like you've fixed the part that you felt unhappy with (power creep), while not fixing the part that we felt unhappy with (untelegraphed one-shots, tedious atlas progression, item inflation etc.).
If there was an address towards the latter, the patch might have been perceived better.
untelegraphed one-shots

Personally I like the way this is, it creates such an emotional turmoil , and the way to handle that shouldn't be some printed receipt anyway. Do it right or not at all .

tedious atlas progression, item inflation etc.).

meh.png
 

Ziem

Arbiter
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May 17, 2014
Messages
324
>I suspect this is because we're gamers first and businesspeople second
is there any sane person reading this and not immediately thinking "wow, what a fucking bullshit lie"
why even include this sort of phrase, this sets the tone for the rest of the post
 

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