Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Lawntoilet]

No you fucking moron, not weapon finesse.

My apologies, autist, I hadn't noted the difference between Weapon Finesse and Finesse Training, because I haven't leveled a Rogue in PF:K yet, and Finesse Training isn't a thing for the Rogue in either 3.5 or PF. It was apparently introduced with the Unchained Rogue, with which I have no experience.

Good job almost containing your spaghetti there, Tyrone. You're doing great. Keep up the good work. You can do it.

For what it's worth, you can get +Dex to attack and damage by taking Fencing or Slashing Grace, but only with one specific weapon, and it takes 3 feats, for example:
Weapon Finesse + Weapon Training (Scimitar) + Slashing Grace (Scimitar).

I only tested at level one but he got the full int bonus (3). I figured it would be capped at level too. If there was some way of converting hit/damage to int it would be very interesting, but unless they feats are hidden in a special feat unlock I didn't see anything that popped out early enough on the class screen to make me want to jump or test other than a possible int wiz or int sorc splash.

There's a Level 6 Magus Arcana that lets you get +Int to hit for a round.

 

[Roqua]

No you fucking moron, not weapon finesse.

My apologies, autist, I hadn't noted the difference between Weapon Finesse and Finesse Training, because I haven't leveled a Rogue in PF:K yet, and Finesse Training isn't a thing for the Rogue in either 3.5 or PF. It was apparently introduced with the Unchained Rogue, with which I have no experience.

Good job almost containing your spaghetti there, Tyrone. You're doing great. Keep up the good work. You can do it.

Shut your retard mouth you little bitch. How hard is it to not reply and just ignore me? Keep your false information and Dunning-Kruger posing to your little retard buddies and leave me out of it. Do not reply to me. Stop. If you want to reply to this - stop. Just stop.

 

[Luckmann]

No you fucking moron, not weapon finesse.

My apologies, autist, I hadn't noted the difference between Weapon Finesse and Finesse Training, because I haven't leveled a Rogue in PF:K yet, and Finesse Training isn't a thing for the Rogue in either 3.5 or PF. It was apparently introduced with the Unchained Rogue, with which I have no experience.

Good job almost containing your spaghetti there, Tyrone. You're doing great. Keep up the good work. You can do it.

Shut your retard mouth you little bitch. How hard is it to not reply and just ignore me? Keep your false information and Dunning-Kruger posing to your little retard buddies and leave me out of it. Do not reply to me. Stop. If you want to reply to this - stop. Just stop.

Keep it together, Tyrone. You don't need to be this way. You'll always be retarded, but your autism doesn't need to define you. You managed to interact with someone without immediately going on a butthurt rating spree beforehand. You've only mentioned Dunning-Kruger twice. Don't sperg out now.

We believe in you.

For what it's worth, you can get +Dex to attack and damage by taking Fencing or Slashing Grace, but only with one specific weapon, and it takes 3 feats, for example:
Weapon Finesse + Weapon Training (Scimitar) + Slashing Grace (Scimitar).

I'm away from the game now, so I can't actually check, but what does Slashing Grace actually do, then? Because Weapon Finesse gives you Dex to Attack, and Finesse Training gives you Dex to Damage, so what would be the purpose of Weapon Finesse + Weapon Training + Slashing Grace?

 

[111111111]

A build compilation (well, 6 builds, anyway) that I'm making at the moment

Hey I wanted to ask you about comparing mid/late game builds specifically transmutation wizard and magus.
I know wizard is all about control and all but I've been hard trolling and going for muscle wizard transmutation specialist (I dump wisdom and charisma for the dex con strength max).

It feels to me that besides the initial magus spellblade burst where he can proc a bunch of stuff the wizard actually becomes a better melee fighter later on in sluggish fights.(Owlbears)
Also the Magus has an awful habit of missing the melee touch spellcast with auto attack when he really should not.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

I'm away from the game now, so I can't actually check, but what does Slashing Grace actually do, then? Because Weapon Finesse gives you Dex to Attack, and Finesse Training gives you Dex to Damage, so what would be the purpose of Weapon Finesse + Weapon Training + Slashing Grace?

It’s for non Rogues who can’t get finesse training.

 

[Haplo]

I don't think you should assume that the armor you'll want to wear will be Mithral. For example, you might find an armor that has excellent abilities that you want to use, but isn't Mithral.

2H doesn't synergise well with a class that has lots of Sneak Attack dice.

There are a few feats missing from the game, such as Furious Focus, that make Power Attack 2H builds more attractive.

So, 2H is fine, but personally, I think TWF is better, especially for Rogue.

Natural Armor bonuses very rarely stack. I think Dragon Disciple's natural armor increase might stack with Natural Armor bonuses, but don't quote me. The ones you mentioned definitely don't stack.

Thank you very much for your comments, appreciate them.
I understand that a sneak attack class will do more damage when trying to maximize the number of attacks => Dual wielding, which works best with Dex, which also happens to offer better defenses. But the feat cost is rather high and you're pretty helpless vs crit immunes.

On the other hand going Strength, I should still do respectable damage, destroy weaklings with Finishing/Great Cleave using reach weapons (and be able to exploit positioning with reach in general), be useful when meeting sneak immune enemies (like elementals), maybe have a decent tripping chance with size increases, Fury's Fall (Dex will still be 26 eventually with mutagen and Cat's/+4 Item), Tandem Trip and Greater Trip.

That's a bit like the old RDD builds from NWN, only with sneak attacks, less bard goodies, more Strenght and AC and eventually some uber buffs like Transformation and Legendary Proportions.

According to NerdCommando, Mutagen Natural Armor and Barkskin bonuses should stack at least.

I went with:
Str: 19 (+5)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 11
Cha: 9 (Aasimar)


Btw. I tried picking Feral Mutagen at level 2, mostly to just check it out, and I got two Claw attacks when unarmed indeed. But the Bite attack seems missing?

 

[Yosharian]

I don't think you should assume that the armor you'll want to wear will be Mithral. For example, you might find an armor that has excellent abilities that you want to use, but isn't Mithral.

2H doesn't synergise well with a class that has lots of Sneak Attack dice.

There are a few feats missing from the game, such as Furious Focus, that make Power Attack 2H builds more attractive.

So, 2H is fine, but personally, I think TWF is better, especially for Rogue.

Natural Armor bonuses very rarely stack. I think Dragon Disciple's natural armor increase might stack with Natural Armor bonuses, but don't quote me. The ones you mentioned definitely don't stack.

Thank you very much for your comments, appreciate them.
I understand that a sneak attack class will do more damage when trying to maximize the number of attacks => Dual wielding, which works best with Dex, which also happens to offer better defenses. But the feat cost is rather high and you're pretty helpless vs crit immunes.

On the other hand going Strength, I should still do respectable damage, destroy weaklings with Finishing/Great Cleave using reach weapons (and be able to exploit positioning with reach in general), be useful when meeting sneak immune enemies (like elementals), maybe have a decent tripping chance with size increases, Fury's Fall (Dex will still be 26 eventually with mutagen and Cat's/+4 Item), Tandem Trip and Greater Trip.

That's a bit like the old RDD builds from NWN, only with sneak attacks, less bard goodies, more Strenght and AC and eventually some uber buffs like Transformation and Legendary Proportions.

According to NerdCommando, Mutagen Natural Armor and Barkskin bonuses should stack at least.

I went with:
Str: 19 (+5)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 11
Cha: 9 (Aasimar)


Btw. I tried picking Feral Mutagen at level 2, mostly to just check it out, and I got two Claw attacks when unarmed indeed. But the Bite attack seems missing?

Wow, yeah, seems I was wrong about that. That makes Mutagen even more powerful, heh.

Yeah that spread seems pretty good for a Str build.

Crit immunes: yes you're right there, but my team has a lot of spell damage so I'm hoping I can blast my way through crit immune monsters.

 

[Yosharian]

I'm away from the game now, so I can't actually check, but what does Slashing Grace actually do, then? Because Weapon Finesse gives you Dex to Attack, and Finesse Training gives you Dex to Damage, so what would be the purpose of Weapon Finesse + Weapon Training + Slashing Grace?

It’s for non Rogues who can’t get finesse training.

Specifically, Finesse Training at 3rd level grants you Dex-to-damage on all hits with the chosen weapon, while Slashing/Fencing Grace only work if you have a hand free.

 

[Cael]

A build compilation (well, 6 builds, anyway) that I'm making at the moment

Hey I wanted to ask you about comparing mid/late game builds specifically transmutation wizard and magus.
I know wizard is all about control and all but I've been hard trolling and going for muscle wizard transmutation specialist (I dump wisdom and charisma for the dex con strength max).

It feels to me that besides the initial magus spellblade burst where he can proc a bunch of stuff the wizard actually becomes a better melee fighter later on in sluggish fights.(Owlbears)
Also the Magus has an awful habit of missing the melee touch spellcast with auto attack when he really should not.

You can't control the battlefield if the enemy saves every single time because of inflated stats. God Wizards also rely on a hell of a lot of spells that plain isn't in many games. In this one, for example, one of the main staples of a God Wizard is Grease. One casting of that will take out an Iron Golem long enough for you to get the hell out of dodge if you don't have the ability to kill it. Grease is not in the game.

Basically the God Wizard is reduced to a buff bot.

This is why inflated stats is a bloody horrible idea in any game based on 3.5. It destroys the basic premise underpinning the entire structure of the game: The relationship between CR, EL, XP and levels. Once that is gone, you will basically have to run around like a headless chook "fixing" stuff that you broke in the first place. You can see such problems in games like NWN, where people complained about how easy the later parts of the campaigns are. It became easy not because of overpowered builds or free resting or the like. It is because the muppets making the game threw the WBL table out the window, and you end up decked out with items that a level 40 demi-God would kill to get. At level 15.

This game seem to have heard the complaints and went straight for the "more difficult" option, except they went about it the lazy way: inflated stats.

 

[Cael]

Btw. I tried picking Feral Mutagen at level 2, mostly to just check it out, and I got two Claw attacks when unarmed indeed.

bataille ! For your monk catgirl.

 

[Cael]

But i wanted to bomb people! I even named him Ahmed!

Just a thought: Sorcerer focussing on AoE spells (Fireball, Scintillating Sphere, Ice Storm, etc.)

 

[santino27]

I'm away from the game now, so I can't actually check, but what does Slashing Grace actually do, then? Because Weapon Finesse gives you Dex to Attack, and Finesse Training gives you Dex to Damage, so what would be the purpose of Weapon Finesse + Weapon Training + Slashing Grace?

It’s for non Rogues who can’t get finesse training.

Specifically, Finesse Training at 3rd level grants you Dex-to-damage on all hits with the chosen weapon, while Slashing/Fencing Grace only work if you have a hand free.

Or at least it will when they fix the bug introduced in 1.05.

 

[Yosharian]

A build compilation (well, 6 builds, anyway) that I'm making at the moment

Hey I wanted to ask you about comparing mid/late game builds specifically transmutation wizard and magus.
I know wizard is all about control and all but I've been hard trolling and going for muscle wizard transmutation specialist (I dump wisdom and charisma for the dex con strength max).

It feels to me that besides the initial magus spellblade burst where he can proc a bunch of stuff the wizard actually becomes a better melee fighter later on in sluggish fights.(Owlbears)
Also the Magus has an awful habit of missing the melee touch spellcast with auto attack when he really should not.

Well, Magus has spell combat and spellstrike.

But yeah, you can do a muscle Wizard. You get access to Transformation quite quickly.

 

[Lawntoilet]

I'm away from the game now, so I can't actually check, but what does Slashing Grace actually do, then? Because Weapon Finesse gives you Dex to Attack, and Finesse Training gives you Dex to Damage, so what would be the purpose of Weapon Finesse + Weapon Training + Slashing Grace?

It’s for non Rogues who can’t get finesse training.

Also, it lets you use Finesse on weapons you otherwise couldn't even with Finesse Training. Not that a Rogue would need that, but if you're dead-set on being able to use Dex to damage and attack with a Scimitar, Longsword, Falcata, or Bastard Sword, it's your only option as far as I know.

 

[vazha]

1) You should abandon multi-classing altogether and go pure Grenadier.

2) You should grab at least 14 strength if you want to use Bows effectively.

3) Do you think that 14 Wisdom, which is effectively another +2 to your Will save, is suddenly going to turn your character into one that reliably makes Will saves? How to deal with it, well you have a party of 6 characters, and hopefully one of them will have protective spells, spells that can remove disabling effects, etc.

1. I want to sneak bomb! Ta-da! Kaboooom! Everyone's dead!
2. And if I were to use a crossbow? what would happen?
3. I strive to make my main character as self-sufficient as possible. That's why I found it super uncool that Barbarian rage doesnt give you mind control immunity here. Were that a thing, I'd go in invulnerable rager / two hander fighter combo and brain everyone in and out. Or so I think.

P.s. Woe to me, cann't get past those three dudes in the mansion with my grenadier. Insane difficulty and all that, but still. I throw teh bomb, those two midgets do their CC stuff and then we all are killed with one hit each. Whatever should I do?

 

[Yosharian]

1) Well, then multiclass, but just know that you're impacting significantly on your bombing ability every time you gain a level in a Sneak Attack class.

2) Crossbows don't require Strength at all, but I don't recommend a crossbow. Bows are much better, and given that Grenadiers get martial weapon proficiency, it's a waste not to use Bows. Just get 14 strength, it's not that costly.

You shouldn't rely on things like bombs for the early game. First few hours of insane difficulty is going to be impossible for anything not wearing heavy or medium armor and not having a good melee attack bonus.

 

[vazha]

1) Well, then multiclass, but just know that you're impacting significantly on your bombing ability every time you gain a level in a Sneak Attack class.

2) Crossbows don't require Strength at all, but I don't recommend a crossbow. Bows are much better, and given that Grenadiers get martial weapon proficiency, it's a waste not to use Bows. Just get 14 strength, it's not that costly.

You shouldn't rely on things like bombs for the early game. First few hours of insane difficulty is going to be impossible for anything not wearing heavy or medium armor and not having a good melee attack bonus.

1. Impacting negatively? in what way?
2. At the cost of which attribute should I go 14 str?

On not being able to effectively compete in early game on insane with a grenadier - that's just not fair. Finally I decide to roll something thats not barb or fighter and the game fucks me up that very instant.

 

[Frusciante]

hey guys, just bought this game but am very rusty in DnD rules/tactics.

I want to play a ranger but remember that pure ranger is fairly boring in DnD. What would be interesting mutliclass combos for the ranger? Maybe Ranger/Rogue or Ranger/Druid?

And why do I need 14 strength again if I want to use bows mainly?

 

[Lawntoilet]

hey guys, just bought this game but am very rusty in DnD rules/tactics.

I want to play a ranger but remember that pure ranger is fairly boring in DnD. What would be interesting mutliclass combos for the ranger? Maybe Ranger/Rogue or Ranger/Druid?

And why do I need 14 strength again if I want to use bows mainly?

Pure Ranger in this game is pretty cool IMO, Freebooter in particular is strong and has neat leader abilities. Ranger/Sacred Huntsman (Inquisitor) could be neat too.
Compound Bows let you add +Str to damage, so you won't want to dump Str.

 

[Frusciante]

hey guys, just bought this game but am very rusty in DnD rules/tactics.

I want to play a ranger but remember that pure ranger is fairly boring in DnD. What would be interesting mutliclass combos for the ranger? Maybe Ranger/Rogue or Ranger/Druid?

And why do I need 14 strength again if I want to use bows mainly?

Pure Ranger in this game is pretty cool IMO, Freebooter in particular is strong and has neat leader abilities. Ranger/Sacred Huntsman (Inquisitor) could be neat too.
Compound Bows let you add +Str to damage, so you won't want to dump Str.

Cool, thx. And for race? Elf or Human? Elf models looks pretty ugly in this game man.

 

[Lawntoilet]

hey guys, just bought this game but am very rusty in DnD rules/tactics.

I want to play a ranger but remember that pure ranger is fairly boring in DnD. What would be interesting mutliclass combos for the ranger? Maybe Ranger/Rogue or Ranger/Druid?

And why do I need 14 strength again if I want to use bows mainly?

Pure Ranger in this game is pretty cool IMO, Freebooter in particular is strong and has neat leader abilities. Ranger/Sacred Huntsman (Inquisitor) could be neat too.
Compound Bows let you add +Str to damage, so you won't want to dump Str.

Cool, thx. And for race? Elf or Human? Elf models looks pretty ugly in this game man.

I like Human for the extra feat and skills.

 

[Cael]

Crit immunes: yes you're right there, but my team has a lot of spell damage so I'm hoping I can blast my way through crit immune monsters.

...

Yosharian, may I introduce you to the staple of DnD right from the beginning, a creature that is only CR13, which means in this game, it could be thrown at you right from the beginning. A creature as famous as it is infamous.

I give to you: The Iron Golem!

 

[Cael]

Cool, thx. And for race? Elf or Human? Elf models looks pretty ugly in this game man.

In 3.x, when in doubt, always choose human. Can't go wrong with that choice.

 

[Frusciante]

What about the flame warden subclass for ranger, is it any good? Looks interesting.

 

[Cael]

Crit immunes: yes you're right there, but my team has a lot of spell damage so I'm hoping I can blast my way through crit immune monsters.

...

Yosharian, may I introduce you to the staple of DnD right from the beginning, a creature that is only CR13, which means in this game, it could be thrown at you right from the beginning. A creature as famous as it is infamous.

I give to you: The Iron Golem!

Golems are what DM do to punish uppity power gamers.

Powergamer: I cast Grease on the floor under the Iron Golem. Guys... RUN!!!