Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Jarpie]

hey guys, just bought this game but am very rusty in DnD rules/tactics.

I want to play a ranger but remember that pure ranger is fairly boring in DnD. What would be interesting mutliclass combos for the ranger? Maybe Ranger/Rogue or Ranger/Druid?

And why do I need 14 strength again if I want to use bows mainly?

Pure Ranger in this game is pretty cool IMO, Freebooter in particular is strong and has neat leader abilities. Ranger/Sacred Huntsman (Inquisitor) could be neat too.
Compound Bows let you add +Str to damage, so you won't want to dump Str.

Sacred Huntsmaster is basically cleric/ranger hybrid with spontaneus casting. They get animal companion and favored enemy, plus the teamwork feats. Pope Amole II said in his freebooter video that because how the action-system works in PF:KM, ranged freebooter doesn't gain as much as melee from the "marked enemy" ability.

 

[Ranarama]

Reach is amazing, but sometimes bugged, often times your companions wont be able to reach past your front line, at other times theyll do it easily.

Really? I've not had problems with longspear for my combat sorc.

 

[Yosharian]

1) Well, then multiclass, but just know that you're impacting significantly on your bombing ability every time you gain a level in a Sneak Attack class.

2) Crossbows don't require Strength at all, but I don't recommend a crossbow. Bows are much better, and given that Grenadiers get martial weapon proficiency, it's a waste not to use Bows. Just get 14 strength, it's not that costly.

You shouldn't rely on things like bombs for the early game. First few hours of insane difficulty is going to be impossible for anything not wearing heavy or medium armor and not having a good melee attack bonus.

1. Impacting negatively? in what way?
2. At the cost of which attribute should I go 14 str?

On not being able to effectively compete in early game on insane with a grenadier - that's just not fair. Finally I decide to roll something thats not barb or fighter and the game fucks me up that very instant.

Crossbows require extra feats to fire as fast as bows. And I don't even think those feats are in the game, so... Bows are the choice for ranged dominance.

If you read the Alchemist info on D20PFSRD you'll see that your bomb count per day is affected by your Alchemist class level. So that's for starters. Then, you'll get less Discoveries to spend on improving your bombs. That one's probably less of an issue, but still. Then there's the loss of extracts.

The only stats you need are Str, Dex and Int. Con is secondary, don't dump it, but you don't need to boost it too much either, as a ranged character you're doing it wrong if you're taking lots of damage. Cha is worthless, and Wis can be left at 10, or dumped.

Example Elf stat distribution:

Str 16
Dex 19
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 7
Cha 7

 

[Yosharian]

Crit immunes: yes you're right there, but my team has a lot of spell damage so I'm hoping I can blast my way through crit immune monsters.

...

Yosharian, may I introduce you to the staple of DnD right from the beginning, a creature that is only CR13, which means in this game, it could be thrown at you right from the beginning. A creature as famous as it is infamous.

I give to you: The Iron Golem!

Yawn. I'll wreck its face.

 

[Cael]

Crit immunes: yes you're right there, but my team has a lot of spell damage so I'm hoping I can blast my way through crit immune monsters.

...

Yosharian, may I introduce you to the staple of DnD right from the beginning, a creature that is only CR13, which means in this game, it could be thrown at you right from the beginning. A creature as famous as it is infamous.

I give to you: The Iron Golem!

Yawn. I'll wreck its face.

Melee sneak attacker vs Iron Golem...

 

[Yosharian]

Crit immunes: yes you're right there, but my team has a lot of spell damage so I'm hoping I can blast my way through crit immune monsters.

...

Yosharian, may I introduce you to the staple of DnD right from the beginning, a creature that is only CR13, which means in this game, it could be thrown at you right from the beginning. A creature as famous as it is infamous.

I give to you: The Iron Golem!

Yawn. I'll wreck its face.

Melee sneak attacker vs Iron Golem...

Barb with over 20 strength

Paladin with at least 20 strength

Plenty of shock spells to slow it

I think I'll be ok

Also Constructs aren't immune to Sneak Attack damage in Pathfinder

 

[Cael]

Crit immunes: yes you're right there, but my team has a lot of spell damage so I'm hoping I can blast my way through crit immune monsters.

...

Yosharian, may I introduce you to the staple of DnD right from the beginning, a creature that is only CR13, which means in this game, it could be thrown at you right from the beginning. A creature as famous as it is infamous.

I give to you: The Iron Golem!

Yawn. I'll wreck its face.

Melee sneak attacker vs Iron Golem...

Barb with over 20 strength

Paladin with at least 20 strength

Plenty of shock spells to slow it

I think I'll be ok

Remember to unequip flaming weapons or you are going to regret it. Hope you can punch through that DR 15/adamantine also. Good luck.

 

[Elex]

Reach is amazing, but sometimes bugged, often times your companions wont be able to reach past your front line, at other times theyll do it easily.

Really? I've not had problems with longspear for my combat sorc.

i like all the weapon option in the game it’s like porn.
but it’s hard to understand what weapons are good.
some weapon are clearly traps.

 

[Ranarama]

Anyone know if rusting grasp is implemented in game, and if there are scrolls of it? Because this problem is easily solved.

 

[Kaivokz]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but Arcane Sorcerer Bloodline is bugged. +1 DC on metamagic overwrites all other +DC feats with a +0 (it's +0 when not using metamagic), so none of the spell focuses add anything to your DC. This only applies to Arcane, not Sage (since they don't have the +DC feature).

Also for wizards, divination has good specialization bonuses, but only 4 of 9 spell levels actually have spells coded in the game, so your bonus slots are going to mostly be delegated to something like heightened true strike.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Sacred Huntsmaster is basically cleric/ranger hybrid with spontaneus casting. They get animal companion and favored enemy, plus the teamwork feats. Pope Amole II said in his freebooter video that because how the action-system works in PF:KM, ranged freebooter doesn't gain as much as melee from the "marked enemy" ability.

It's not even the action system, it's more about changes to the Manyshot (which works only during a full-attack action). Given that freebooter will often have standard-action only, that just doesn't leave him with much to do with the bow (outside of shooting once). Vital strike, I guess, but that thing is kinda crappy with the bows.

 

[Aemar]

Any suggestions for a viable melee 1H/shield build, with the weapon being other than a sword?

 

[Lawntoilet]

Any suggestions for a viable melee 1H/shield build, with the weapon being other than a sword?

Go for maneuvers. High-Cha Cornugon Strike debuffing Fighter/Thug is good, and can let you build off Dex weapons.
If that's not your bag, get 13 Int and go down the Trip feat line.
There are also 2 great Heavy Maces in the Troll den in chapter 2.

 

[Cael]

This is why inflated stats is a bloody horrible idea in any game based on 3.5. It destroys the basic premise underpinning the entire structure of the game: The relationship between CR, EL, XP and levels. Once that is gone, you will basically have to run around like a headless chook "fixing" stuff that you broke in the first place. You can see such problems in games like NWN, where people complained about how easy the later parts of the campaigns are. It became easy not because of overpowered builds or free resting or the like. It is because the muppets making the game threw the WBL table out the window, and you end up decked out with items that a level 40 demi-God would kill to get. At level 15.

This game seem to have heard the complaints and went straight for the "more difficult" option, except they went about it the lazy way: inflated stats.

This is an apt analysis.

I find, however, that even in WBL proper, Druids and Clerics and especially Druids, have unfair advantage due to the way their abilities work. They do not need money/items to fuel their core strengths. It is indeed a thankful thing that people do not understand how utterly broken wild shape is even in absence of splatbooks sprawling shenanigans. Same for Wizard with stuff like Polymorph.

It is surprising how so many people, even people who claim to know the system backwards and claim superior intelligence, just don't plain get the premise and inevitably fuck things up. Then, they blame 3.5 for being "broken"...

 

[Yosharian]

Any suggestions for a viable melee 1H/shield build, with the weapon being other than a sword?

Need more details. Spellcasting/non-spellcasting, etc. There are a lot of ways you could do it.

Also, the Shield spell pretty much makes shields irrelevant for most of the game, providing you have enough caster levels to get a decent duration.

 

[Yosharian]

Any suggestions for a viable melee 1H/shield build, with the weapon being other than a sword?

Actually now that I think of it, if you take the Fighter archetype Tower Shield Specialist, you can definitely build a decent character out of that. A magical Tower Shield brings enough AC to the table that it outclasses the Shield spell by a significant margin.

So there's that

 

[Shadenuat]

Any ideas on super tanky Inquisitor? I am building Jaethal now and wonder if I really want those Fighter levels/hit points.
The free teamwork feats are pretty tasty too though, and also increase survivability anyway so

 

[Yosharian]

So I just learned that the game's Barbarian class uses the Pathfinder Unchained Barbarian rules. This means that Rage adds flat attack/damage bonuses instead of a Strength bonus.

This is unremarkable other than that it is a small nerf to aspects of the character that might otherwise benefit from an increased Strength bonus. Off the top of my head, Strength bonus applies to 2-handed weapons with a 50% bonus, which means that the flat Rage bonuses don't make 2H weapons better. Strength also has combat maneuver-related bonuses. Strength can also boost your intimidate skill if you have the relevant feat.

On the positive side, it means that Barbarians can be more flexible, in that they don't have to use Strength as a main damage-dealing stat. This benefits TWF Barbarians hugely, for example.

 

[Cael]

Any ideas on super tanky Inquisitor? I am building Jaethal now and wonder if I really want those Fighter levels/hit points.
The free teamwork feats are pretty tasty too though, and also increase survivability anyway so

I suggest you take a look at Khelgar for a good tank. Seriously. The guy is the prototypical tank. Mithral plate plus Adamantium Tower Shield plus a warhammer of doom. High AC, DR 3/- and pretty high damage due to high Strength. That is him just being a pure Fighter. Mix in levels of Barbarian and/or Dwarven Defender and the guy would be just stand and deliver like you won't believe.

 

[Yosharian]

For those that have seen some magical loot, are there any decent Heavy Armors?

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

For those that have seen some magical loot, are there any decent Heavy Armors?

What counts as decent? Seeing some plus two Full Plate fairly early in chapter two. And there are enchanted mithril and adamantine Full Plates for sale from the vendor in the capital.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

There's the Blessed Path platemail or whatever it is if you do some puzzle in one of the dungeons that comes with bonuses to wisdom/charisma. I think only Lawful Good characters can wear it though.

Also Paladins can use Smite Evil more often per day if they wear it.

 

[Haplo]

Any suggestions for a viable melee 1H/shield build, with the weapon being other than a sword?

Actually now that I think of it, if you take the Fighter archetype Tower Shield Specialist, you can definitely build a decent character out of that. A magical Tower Shield brings enough AC to the table that it outclasses the Shield spell by a significant margin.

So there's that

Let's not forget that there are 2 shield focus feats, so even with a +5 light shield (finessable) the AC gap can grow pretty significant (3 AC more then Shield spell, up to 5 AC more with Shield Wall teamwork feat).

 

[Yosharian]

Any suggestions for a viable melee 1H/shield build, with the weapon being other than a sword?

Actually now that I think of it, if you take the Fighter archetype Tower Shield Specialist, you can definitely build a decent character out of that. A magical Tower Shield brings enough AC to the table that it outclasses the Shield spell by a significant margin.

So there's that

Let's not forget that there are 2 shield focus feats, so even with a +5 light shield (finessable) the AC gap can grow pretty significant (3 AC more then Shield spell, up to 5 AC more with Shield Wall teamwork feat).

True, but still rather poor value for essentially +1 AC per feat.

 

[Yosharian]

For those that have seen some magical loot, are there any decent Heavy Armors?

What counts as decent? Seeing some plus two Full Plate fairly early in chapter two. And there are enchanted mithril and adamantine Full Plates for sale from the vendor in the capital.

I was thinking more stuff that's unique, but that's still helpful, thanks.