Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Haplo]

Thanks for the feesback Daidre, Haplo, ArchAngel and VentilatorOfDoom.

Ill go with fire, earth and water last. Ill look into the infusions next (I have made notes about the infusions mentioned above).

Just a question about trip. I know that bull rush (if taken by the kineticist) negates the strength prerequisite, does the same happen for trip? Or do I still need to meet the standard prerequisites?

Both ignore the Combat Expertise requirement, which requires 13 INT.
Strength is used in the CMB check (plus Dex, if you have Fury's Fall), but in case of regular Kineticist, its substituted by Con instead (Int for Dark Elementalist and I think Wis for Psycho).

 

[Haplo]

You don't need to wait, all those AoE can only be cast once and new one replaces the old one. Just cast same spell again behind your party so you can progress forward. This is how I deal with Deadly Earth after each battle.

It is exactly what I've been doing. Moving Wall, Deadly Earth and typhoon to the farthest corner after every battle. That makes Enduring Earth damn annoying Feat.
Edit: I also had natural CON 24 and now I think it was a mistake to get it this high. I've barely used my huge burn pool beyong getting to max Overflow bonus (7). And damage bonus almost negligible in 40+d6 blasts. 16-18 with belt bonuses would have been enough. DEX looks more useful now.

High Con should be good for landing save-based Infusion effects... in case you even care about them. I guess death is the ultimate CC.

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

Thanks for the feesback Daidre, Haplo, ArchAngel and VentilatorOfDoom.

Ill go with fire, earth and water last. Ill look into the infusions next (I have made notes about the infusions mentioned above).

Just a question about trip. I know that bull rush (if taken by the kineticist) negates the strength prerequisite, does the same happen for trip? Or do I still need to meet the standard prerequisites?

Both ignore the Combat Expertise requirement, which requires 13 INT.
Strength is used in the CMB check (plus Dex, if you have Fury's Fall), but in case of regular Kineticist, its substituted by Con instead (Int for Dark Elementalist and I think Wis for Psycho).

That is good to know! So a STR score of 10 should be fine, right? At least so I can lug a couple of things around. And I can keep INT at 10 or 8 (dont need the kineticist to be a skill monkey)

 

[ArchAngel]

Thanks for the feesback Daidre, Haplo, ArchAngel and VentilatorOfDoom.

Ill go with fire, earth and water last. Ill look into the infusions next (I have made notes about the infusions mentioned above).

Just a question about trip. I know that bull rush (if taken by the kineticist) negates the strength prerequisite, does the same happen for trip? Or do I still need to meet the standard prerequisites?

I would go double fire and something else. Double Fire gives you only touch attack composite blast. And one of the fire infusions gives you ability to ignore enemy SR so this attack works against anyone that is not immune to fire.
You don't really want to abuse stuff like Deadly Earth anyways, it will make the game too easy.

 

[Incendax]

Not sure if its "dramatically" more. Certainly, magma has access to more damaging infusions, such as burn and enduring fire.
Anyway, Water (physical) or Cold (elemental), make your pick The latter does not mix with Earth btw., so...

Physical Fire Composites deal more damage than Physical Composites without Fire. So Magma deals more raw damage than Mud or Sand before any other modifiers.

My personal preference is probably...
Fire + Earth + Water = Fire touch attack in the early game, Wall + Deadly starting at level 13, then you get (Steam) Cloud at 17.
Fire + Fire + Water = Lots of Blue Flame in the midgame, ignore SR in the later game, and (Steam) Cloud at 17.

 

[Haplo]

Thanks for the feesback Daidre, Haplo, ArchAngel and VentilatorOfDoom.

Ill go with fire, earth and water last. Ill look into the infusions next (I have made notes about the infusions mentioned above).

Just a question about trip. I know that bull rush (if taken by the kineticist) negates the strength prerequisite, does the same happen for trip? Or do I still need to meet the standard prerequisites?

Both ignore the Combat Expertise requirement, which requires 13 INT.
Strength is used in the CMB check (plus Dex, if you have Fury's Fall), but in case of regular Kineticist, its substituted by Con instead (Int for Dark Elementalist and I think Wis for Psycho).

That is good to know! So a STR score of 10 should be fine, right? At least so I can lug a couple of things around. And I can keep INT at 10 or 8 (dont need the kineticist to be a skill monkey)

Sure, fine. Although if you have some heavy lifters in your party, 8 Strength should be perfectly fine for a non-Knight Kineticist, who needs his both hands empty for Gather Power.

 

[Haplo]

Thanks for the feesback Daidre, Haplo, ArchAngel and VentilatorOfDoom.

Ill go with fire, earth and water last. Ill look into the infusions next (I have made notes about the infusions mentioned above).

Just a question about trip. I know that bull rush (if taken by the kineticist) negates the strength prerequisite, does the same happen for trip? Or do I still need to meet the standard prerequisites?

I would go double fire and something else. Double Fire gives you only touch attack composite blast. And one of the fire infusions gives you ability to ignore enemy SR so this attack works against anyone that is not immune to fire.
You don't really want to abuse stuff like Deadly Earth anyways, it will make the game too easy.

Sure, that's another way to do this, if you want to focus on single-target damage. As for Deadly Earth, didn't you pay for the DLC to win?

Another option, if you want a more approach,
is to go double Earth => Metal blast with Magnetic Infusion. If you hit with the physical blast, you'll debuff enemy AC by 4 - for you and the whole party for the next round. So that's nice party play. You can even pierce enemy Damage Reduction with Rare Metal Infusion.

AND you'll still have the option of Deadly Earth, should you be so inclined.

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

Once again, thank you guys. I have settled on a aasimar kineticist:

STR: 7
DEX: 17
CON: 20
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 7

Elements: Fire, earth, water. Level 1 feats are point blank shot and dazzling. Going to start my second playthrough after work and see how it goes. Btw, between fire's fury and skilled kineticist which one should I go for? Or neither of those?

 

[Yosharian]

Once again, thank you guys. I have settled on a aasimar kineticist:

STR: 7
DEX: 17
CON: 20
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 7

Elements: Fire, earth, water. Level 1 feats are point blank shot and dazzling. Going to start my second playthrough after work and see how it goes. Btw, between fire's fury and skilled kineticist which one should I go for? Or neither of those?

7 strength? Haha, wow

20 con is absurd, lower it to 19 or 18 and buff some of those other attributes

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

:-p Yeah, I also wasnt too happy with the 7 STR.

Hmm, if I put CON at 19 I could move DEX to 18 or STR to 10 I suppose. I am leaning toward the latter.

 

[Yosharian]

10 Strength is fine, anything less than that is a little bit of a pain. 7 is really tough to deal with early game.

 

[80Maxwell08]

So after about half a dozen characters I wasn't satisfied with, I made a melee focused paladin. It worked out pretty nicely for a while. Beat the bandits at the trading post, found tartuccio who I didn't even dislike until he tried framing me, chased him all the way to the caves under old sycamore, and went all the way into the depths where I used every healing item and ability at my disposal trying to survive, which failed when I ran into a group of skeletons that killed my entire party save one who managed to flee off a cliff. I'm basically ending that run now because it just feels wrong to leave the area , rest up then go back to the caves or do something else. I looked up a walkthrough just to see if I missed something and found out I should have done another area entirely first. Honestly, I find it hilarious that I fucked myself over so hard chasing that stupid gnome.

I decided to use the opportunity to make another character and am going to try making a cleric again. Here's where im at now.
He is a lvl 2 Lawbringer Aasimar whose stats are as follows
14 STR
13 DEX
14 CON
10 INT
18 WIS
14 CHA
Domains are Sun and Good just because. I'm not really that passionate about any of the domains. The only feat I gave him so far was martial weapon proficiency because simple weapons didn't look to appealing to me. I really don't know what I'm doing when it comes to building characters in pathfinder so any advice is helpful.

 

[Daidre]

The main thing with cleric, I think, is to decide whether you melee, archer or caster. There is not enough feats to be good at everything. And I hate multiclass them because slower access to Delay Posion Communal, Energy Resistance, Death Ward, Heal and Mass Heal is never worth it.
You look like melee so good weapon options for you is either sword&board or reach weapon. The Glaive is my personal favorite thanks to reach, being 2-hander and quite a good representation across all game. Cool looking too.
About feats:
- Selective/Extra Channeling are good if you like to use Channel for healing. (And it is your best weapon against this nasty skeletons in sycamore depths)
- Precise Strike & Outflank + Shield Wall (if you got another shield user) amazing for all melee, but whether you want team feats is your choice
- Heavy Armor for sword&board
- Extend Spell for buffs and using your spells in +1 lvl spell slots
- Blind Fight is must have
- Spell Focuses + Spell Penetration for damage spells or Summoning feats (start with SF Conjuration) for summons

At level 5 (spell level 3) you get Animate Dead which is game changing. This spell alone could solve like 3/4 difficult encounters. Ever meet something too hard hitting to tank - just drown it in skeletons (owlbears!).

 

[Haplo]

10 Strength is fine, anything less than that is a little bit of a pain. 7 is really tough to deal with early game.

Had no issues at all with 8 Str on a Sword Saint. Although I guess a Kineticist will want to wear SOME armor early on (no weapons though - but armor is heavier).

 

[80Maxwell08]

The main thing with cleric, I think, is to decide whether you melee, archer or caster. There is not enough feats to be good at everything. And I hate multiclass them because slower access to Delay Posion Communal, Energy Resistance, Death Ward, Heal and Mass Heal is never worth it.
You look like melee so good weapon options for you is either sword&board or reach weapon. The Glaive is my personal favorite thanks to reach, being 2-hander and quite a good representation across all game. Cool looking too.
About feats:
- Selective/Extra Channeling are good if you like to use Channel for healing. (And it is your best weapon against this nasty skeletons in sycamore depths)
- Precise Strike/Outflank + Shield Wall (if you got another shield user) amazing for all melee, but whether you want team feats is your choice
- Heavy Armor for sword&board
- Extend Spell for buffs and using your spells in +1 lvl spell slots
- Blind Fight is must have
- Spell Focuses + Spell Penetration for damage spells or Summoning feats (start with SF Conjuration) for summons

At level 5 (spell level 3) you get Animate Dead which is game changing. This spell alone could solve like 3/4 difficult encounters. Ever meet something too hard hitting to tank - just drown it in skeletons (owlbears!).

So would the crusader arch-type actually be good if you were making a melee cleric? I was looking up build advice on google earlier and I saw a lot of people saying the few feats it gives isn't worth losing a domain.

 

[Haplo]

The main thing with cleric, I think, is to decide whether you melee, archer or caster. There is not enough feats to be good at everything. And I hate multiclass them because slower access to Delay Posion Communal, Energy Resistance, Death Ward, Heal and Mass Heal is never worth it.
You look like melee so good weapon options for you is either sword&board or reach weapon. The Glaive is my personal favorite thanks to reach, being 2-hander and quite a good representation across all game. Cool looking too.
About feats:
- Selective/Extra Channeling are good if you like to use Channel for healing. (And it is your best weapon against this nasty skeletons in sycamore depths)
- Precise Strike & Outflank + Shield Wall (if you got another shield user) amazing for all melee, but whether you want team feats is your choice
- Heavy Armor for sword&board
- Extend Spell for buffs and using your spells in +1 lvl spell slots
- Blind Fight is must have
- Spell Focuses + Spell Penetration for damage spells or Summoning feats (start with SF Conjuration) for summons

At level 5 (spell level 3) you get Animate Dead which is game changing. This spell alone could solve like 3/4 difficult encounters. Ever meet something too hard hitting to tank - just drown it in skeletons (owlbears!).

Good advice.
Although I would not include Precise Strike & Outflank + Shield Wall in 1 point. All are Teamwork Feats, sure enough. But one of them shines far more then the rest: get Outflank ASAP on all melees in all playtroughts. That feat is just great!

Precise Strike is nice early on, but its not much, its not multiplied on crits, a few enemies are immune - it's value diminishes as you progress. Extra damage is never a bad thing, I suppose, but I can never fit it in my builds (often I don't even take Accomplished Sneak Attacker on characters that qualify). Shield Wall... quite nice if you often have a Tower Shield user next to you I suppose (Valerie?), but also pretty situational and doesn't unlock any further feat chains, I would take it only if I have a spare feat (hint: not often). And if he follows your advice and picks a Glaive (or another two-hander, like fauchard or longspear - the latter needs no additional proficiency), it won't exactly help him.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Maybe I should just go for a caster cleric or a fighter/paladin then. It doesn't really sound like focusing on melee for a cleric is the best idea. More like I'm making a gimped fighter or paladin with better spellcasting. Which won't be that good compared to a dedicated spellcaster.

 

[Yosharian]

The main thing with cleric, I think, is to decide whether you melee, archer or caster. There is not enough feats to be good at everything. And I hate multiclass them because slower access to Delay Posion Communal, Energy Resistance, Death Ward, Heal and Mass Heal is never worth it.
You look like melee so good weapon options for you is either sword&board or reach weapon. The Glaive is my personal favorite thanks to reach, being 2-hander and quite a good representation across all game. Cool looking too.
About feats:
- Selective/Extra Channeling are good if you like to use Channel for healing. (And it is your best weapon against this nasty skeletons in sycamore depths)
- Precise Strike/Outflank + Shield Wall (if you got another shield user) amazing for all melee, but whether you want team feats is your choice
- Heavy Armor for sword&board
- Extend Spell for buffs and using your spells in +1 lvl spell slots
- Blind Fight is must have
- Spell Focuses + Spell Penetration for damage spells or Summoning feats (start with SF Conjuration) for summons

At level 5 (spell level 3) you get Animate Dead which is game changing. This spell alone could solve like 3/4 difficult encounters. Ever meet something too hard hitting to tank - just drown it in skeletons (owlbears!).

So would the crusader arch-type actually be good if you were making a melee cleric? I was looking up build advice on google earlier and I saw a lot of people saying the few feats it gives isn't worth losing a domain.

Crsader is fucking trash, unfortunately, which is a shame because there are decent martial-focused Cleric archetypes in Pathfinder

What you have to remember is:

1) Losing 1 spell per level doesn't sound so bad until you realise that, at many points in your Cleric career, you'll only have one or two spell slots at any given spell level. So it's much worse than it sounds.
2) The feats you gain have to be selected from a limited pool which, frankly, contains many shit feats.

 

[santino27]

The main thing with cleric, I think, is to decide whether you melee, archer or caster. There is not enough feats to be good at everything. And I hate multiclass them because slower access to Delay Posion Communal, Energy Resistance, Death Ward, Heal and Mass Heal is never worth it.
You look like melee so good weapon options for you is either sword&board or reach weapon. The Glaive is my personal favorite thanks to reach, being 2-hander and quite a good representation across all game. Cool looking too.
About feats:
- Selective/Extra Channeling are good if you like to use Channel for healing. (And it is your best weapon against this nasty skeletons in sycamore depths)
- Precise Strike/Outflank + Shield Wall (if you got another shield user) amazing for all melee, but whether you want team feats is your choice
- Heavy Armor for sword&board
- Extend Spell for buffs and using your spells in +1 lvl spell slots
- Blind Fight is must have
- Spell Focuses + Spell Penetration for damage spells or Summoning feats (start with SF Conjuration) for summons

At level 5 (spell level 3) you get Animate Dead which is game changing. This spell alone could solve like 3/4 difficult encounters. Ever meet something too hard hitting to tank - just drown it in skeletons (owlbears!).

So would the crusader arch-type actually be good if you were making a melee cleric? I was looking up build advice on google earlier and I saw a lot of people saying the few feats it gives isn't worth losing a domain.

Generally, a handful of feats is not worth the loss of a domain.

 

[Yosharian]

Maybe I should just go for a caster cleric or a fighter/paladin then. It doesn't really sound like focusing on melee for a cleric is the best idea. More like I'm making a gimped fighter or paladin with better spellcasting. Which won't be that good compared to a dedicated spellcaster.

Cleric has many decent martial spells but it really can't hold a candle to an Arcane gish. Well, maybe that's overstating it. It's still quite a good option.

As a primary caster with some martial ability, however, Cleric really rocks.

Paladin is.. OK. The spell selection isn't great, they're mostly effective against Evil creatures. Which is great if you're up against Evil creatures. Not so good if you aren't. Again, Arcane gish wins. Paladins are much simpler to build than a decent Arcane gish, though.

 

[Daidre]

For dedicated caster cleric I really like idea of Gozreh Ecclesitheurge with Air or Weather Primary domain and Animal secondary, maybe with some archery feats. Animal gives you pet on level 4 and they are crazy on low levels and decent at high. Smilodon or Leopard is better and studier melee then cleric himself even with proper feats. Air gives you ability to put damage spells like Chain Lighting into your non-domain spell slots. You'll be like almost-wizard with kitty and buffs and healing.

Crusader is extra bad for not only loosing one domain, but also one spell slot on every level. Info is nowhere in the game (!) but it makes him worst cleric archetype.

 

[Yosharian]

Crusader is extra bad for not only loosing one domain, but also one spell slot on every level. Info is nowhere in the game (!)

Huh. Really?

 

[Daidre]

Yep. Like info about Feyspeaker Druid having slow BAB progression instead of medium.

 

[Jarpie]

The person who's making Eldritch Arcana mod said in Discord that she might add more archetypes into existing classes when the mod is far enough in development.

 

[Incendax]

Maybe I should just go for a caster cleric or a fighter/paladin then. It doesn't really sound like focusing on melee for a cleric is the best idea. More like I'm making a gimped fighter or paladin with better spellcasting. Which won't be that good compared to a dedicated spellcaster.

Dedicated Spellcaster cleric is definitely the strongest option on the table. But I've seen some people make Tank Clerics with considerable success. They don't try to deal damage, just pile on the Crane Wing + Defense Buffs.

And when they are not tanking, they are still full progression casters.